Now its Global Cooling

[zoogs]

That's not at all what the agreement with China says.

[knapplc]

Where is there no regulations protecting the environment in the US?

 

And, you are willing to pack up those companies and have people lose their jobs even though it has no affect net net on the global environment.

 

But...hey...I guess it makes us feel good.

 

 

 

 

 

And, yes, in the Global Warming thread i gave an example of a local company that moved it's plant due to environmental regulatlions.

 

 

 

 

 

And...oh yes, the wonderful agreement we are now in with China that says...."Hey....you go ahead and pollute more and we will go ahead and put more regulations on ours." It's funny how I'm told that our overall world pollution needs to DROP or we are all going to die. BUT...hey.....you just keep polluting more and more. I don't think the world environment really cares that China is going to max out it's pollution in 2030 when it's over polluting already.

To answer your points:

 

There is no place in America without regulations. You are arguing against regulations, stating that regulations = bad for American business. I'm saying EVEN IF THERE WERE NO REGULATIONS HERE, it's better to have the polluting done there than here. For example: I have decided I'm going to defecate in a living room. May I come over to your house or would you like me to stay here?

 

You've stated yourself in the Global Warming Pause thread that you're in favor of green energy. "I don't have a problem with green energy. It's obviously a good thing and any thing we can do to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels the better...especially oil." Why you say that, then later describe them as "feel good" policies... you'll have to clarify that one.

 

If you gave an example in the Global Warming Pause thread of a company moving because of regulations, I missed it, it was not a comment directed at me, and claiming I "ignored it" is inaccurate. I read through your posts in that thread and I don't see what you're referring to. Please link to that post instead of just making a claim that I ignored you.

 

 

I don't understand your last paragraph. As we've covered, we're going to lose jobs to China regardless of their policies or ours concerning environmental regulations. This is a red herring and it needs to stop. Whether China pollutes or does not pollute, whether America pollutes or does not pollute, our jobs are going there because their labor costs are a fraction of ours. We will not stop losing jobs to China because of our environmental safeguards.

[tschu]

Knapp nailed it. Our present condition WRT industries moving to China has everything to do with the cost-effectiveness of their labor which in large part is due to just inherently how cheap the labor is due to living conditions and wealth status there, currency manipulation and the total sham that is China's inclusion in the WTO (free trade my ass) and far far less to do with environmental regulations. To be sure, a small part of why Chinese labor is cheaper is due to having little in the way of environmental regulation, but it's not like it's enough to make the difference in most cases between jobs moving overseas or staying here, not even close.

 

If we want to deal with the China problem we'll have to do it diplomatically, not by screwing with our own standards. Don't worry Buster, none of us think it's okay for the Chinese environmental standards to be as bad as they are. But we can't really control that as much as we can our own, so that's what we focus on. Don't shift the goalposts.

[methodical]

The anti-regulation rallying cry by republicans works on people with zero understanding of the history of how these "evil regulations" come about. Most of the regulations dealing with pollution have come about because there's a public health problem demonstrated to be caused by whatever is being regulated. The whole "race to the bottom" platform that the republican party thinks will bring jobs won't ever work because they'd have to pay third world wages and kill people that live around the factories they want to create. People that honestly believe in that agenda are either sociopathic business owners looking for slave labor or the easily duped.

 

It's funny how we get all this right wing parroted skepticism about actual science and where the funding comes from and "of course they want to keep their grant money." Which shows not only a fundamental lack of understanding about how scientists work, but also an unwillingness or inability to turn that "skepticism" towards their own media outlets and the corporations and people paying for that PR campaign to confuse the issue. It's funny because it's sad. The so-called skeptics are people being told what to think and what to fear and they like the term because it makes it sound like they can think for themselves.

 

Saying there is "Global Cooling" is equivalent to the old "The world is going to end on this date" psychic crazies, except one has already been proven false, but both are lies to trick the gullible in an attempt to sell books.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Where is there no regulations protecting the environment in the US?

 

And, you are willing to pack up those companies and have people lose their jobs even though it has no affect net net on the global environment.

 

But...hey...I guess it makes us feel good.

 

 

 

 

 

And, yes, in the Global Warming thread i gave an example of a local company that moved it's plant due to environmental regulatlions.

 

 

 

 

 

And...oh yes, the wonderful agreement we are now in with China that says...."Hey....you go ahead and pollute more and we will go ahead and put more regulations on ours." It's funny how I'm told that our overall world pollution needs to DROP or we are all going to die. BUT...hey.....you just keep polluting more and more. I don't think the world environment really cares that China is going to max out it's pollution in 2030 when it's over polluting already.

To answer your points:

 

There is no place in America without regulations. You are arguing against regulations, stating that regulations = bad for American business. I'm saying EVEN IF THERE WERE NO REGULATIONS HERE, it's better to have the polluting done there than here. For example: I have decided I'm going to defecate in a living room. May I come over to your house or would you like me to stay here?

 

You've stated yourself in the Global Warming Pause thread that you're in favor of green energy. "I don't have a problem with green energy. It's obviously a good thing and any thing we can do to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels the better...especially oil." Why you say that, then later describe them as "feel good" policies... you'll have to clarify that one.

 

If you gave an example in the Global Warming Pause thread of a company moving because of regulations, I missed it, it was not a comment directed at me, and claiming I "ignored it" is inaccurate. I read through your posts in that thread and I don't see what you're referring to. Please link to that post instead of just making a claim that I ignored you.

 

 

I don't understand your last paragraph. As we've covered, we're going to lose jobs to China regardless of their policies or ours concerning environmental regulations. This is a red herring and it needs to stop. Whether China pollutes or does not pollute, whether America pollutes or does not pollute, our jobs are going there because their labor costs are a fraction of ours. We will not stop losing jobs to China because of our environmental safeguards.

 

I am not arguing against regulation and I have never said labor costs aren't a major part of it.