The U.S. Is No Longer a Democracy

[Moiraine]

Just so I understand it... The Chicago Political Machine - by all accounts one of the most openly corrupt political "entities" imaginable - gets a man elected President and it takes some comments by Jimmy Carter 8 years later for this to be discussed ;-)... The Republic vs Democracy distinction aside, I don't think Democracy in this country is any more dead than it's always been. If anything, it's just more transparently obvious than it has been since the "Democratic process" of the 1800s.

 

Obama's funding came from way more small income voters than the Republican funding. It wasn't some sinister psychological brain child of a group that made people vote the way they did.

[True2tRA]

You all are far smarter in the political area than I am but can someone tell me, what do you call it when the "alarmist propaganda" appears to be the truth?

 

Maybe the simple fact that it is the truth, is what should be "alarming".

[Moiraine]

It pisses me off that people are okay with policy and elections being bought.

[NUance]

It pisses me off that people are okay with policy and elections being bought.

 

I wish it pissed more people off. Maybe something would get done about it. Instead, we're gonna slowly circle the drain as our country gets flushed down the crapper and our elected officials line their pockets.

[Husker_x]

It pisses me off that people are okay with policy and elections being bought.

 

That pretty much says it all. Or should, anyway, if people were paying attention to what's happening here.

 

And when you throw on the voter suppression tactics, gerrymandering, the congressional K Street retirement plans, Wall Street bailouts (no worries, the CEOs got their bonuses anyway and it's sure to trickle down any day now), wars of aggression, and the science denialism––which is flat alarming in an apocalyptic sort of way . . . this is a sad pass we find ourselves at.

[krill]

 

It pisses me off that people are okay with policy and elections being bought.

 

I wish it pissed more people off. Maybe something would get done about it. Instead, we're gonna slowly circle the drain as our country gets flushed down the crapper and our elected officials line their pockets.

 

 

With the amount of money being pumped into social media by campaigns now, I wouldn't doubt that some of the pointless tu quoque (you too) arguments that seem to flood every Internet discussion are being paid for by the aforementioned sweaty wads of cash™.

 

Doesn't matter if it's unions, Soros, the Koch brothers, other faceless ultra-wealthy individuals, or corporations...it all stinks.

[ColoNoCoHusker]

 

Just so I understand it... The Chicago Political Machine - by all accounts one of the most openly corrupt political "entities" imaginable - gets a man elected President and it takes some comments by Jimmy Carter 8 years later for this to be discussed ;-)... The Republic vs Democracy distinction aside, I don't think Democracy in this country is any more dead than it's always been. If anything, it's just more transparently obvious than it has been since the "Democratic process" of the 1800s.

 

Obama's funding came from way more small income voters than the Republican funding. It wasn't some sinister psychological brain child of a group that made people vote the way they did.

 

 

My point was not that Obama got into the Whitehouse due to some "sinister psychological brain child". There were some very interesting back-room deals to get Obama the nod from the Dems; nothing any worse than the similar extreme from the GOP. Also nothing that has not occurred in every other national elections the rest of last century.

 

My point was that our Political Funding and Party structures on ALL sides have been severely broken for a long, long time. We have a system with a thin veil of intregrity that has not ever truly existed, at least in my lifetime. I did vote for Obama (If I'm completely honest, I donated time, money, & services to Obama's campaign) but that does not mean the broken system is anything new and should not surprise anyone... As has been said, the continued lack of moral outrage is the only shock/disappointment, imo.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Just so I understand it... The Chicago Political Machine - by all accounts one of the most openly corrupt political "entities" imaginable - gets a man elected President and it takes some comments by Jimmy Carter 8 years later for this to be discussed ;-)... The Republic vs Democracy distinction aside, I don't think Democracy in this country is any more dead than it's always been. If anything, it's just more transparently obvious than it has been since the "Democratic process" of the 1800s.

 

Obama's funding came from way more small income voters than the Republican funding. It wasn't some sinister psychological brain child of a group that made people vote the way they did.

 

There might have been more small donations to Obama. However, if you don't think the Democrat's political machine isn't greased with money from extremely wealthy people and groups then you are naive.

[Moiraine]

 

 

Just so I understand it... The Chicago Political Machine - by all accounts one of the most openly corrupt political "entities" imaginable - gets a man elected President and it takes some comments by Jimmy Carter 8 years later for this to be discussed ;-)... The Republic vs Democracy distinction aside, I don't think Democracy in this country is any more dead than it's always been. If anything, it's just more transparently obvious than it has been since the "Democratic process" of the 1800s.

 

Obama's funding came from way more small income voters than the Republican funding. It wasn't some sinister psychological brain child of a group that made people vote the way they did.

 

There might have been more small donations to Obama. However, if you don't think the Democrat's political machine isn't greased with money from extremely wealthy people and groups then you are naive.

 

 

Of course it is

[BigRedBuster]

If we took the affect of money out of American politics, I believe most people in America would be absolutely SHOCKED at the difference we would see in the narratives put out by both parties.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

Just so I understand it... The Chicago Political Machine - by all accounts one of the most openly corrupt political "entities" imaginable - gets a man elected President and it takes some comments by Jimmy Carter 8 years later for this to be discussed ;-)... The Republic vs Democracy distinction aside, I don't think Democracy in this country is any more dead than it's always been. If anything, it's just more transparently obvious than it has been since the "Democratic process" of the 1800s.

 

Obama's funding came from way more small income voters than the Republican funding. It wasn't some sinister psychological brain child of a group that made people vote the way they did.

 

There might have been more small donations to Obama. However, if you don't think the Democrat's political machine isn't greased with money from extremely wealthy people and groups then you are naive.

 

 

Of course it is

 

Then people can give all the $50 donations they want and think it's having an affect on the candidate and narrative but it's not.

[cornographic]

 

Jimmy Carter Is Correct that the U.S. Is No Longer a Democracy

By Eric Zuesse, Huffingtonpost.com, Posted: 08/03/2015 11:48 am EDT Updated: 1 hour ago

<snip> These two historic decisions enable unlimited secret money (including foreign money) now to pour into U.S. political and judicial campaigns. Carter answered:

"It violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it's just an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or being elected president. And the same thing applies to governors, and U.S. Senators and congress members. So, now we've just seen a subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect, and sometimes get, favors for themselves after the election is over. ... At the present time the incumbents, Democrats and Republicans, look upon this unlimited money as a great benefit to themselves. Somebody that is already in Congress has a great deal more to sell."

LINK

 

 

This is one of the biggest problems we have in U.S. politics today. Maybe the biggest. Too many politicians vote to line their pockets, not for the good of America. Allowing massive campaign contributions exacerbates this problem.

 

 

Agree, thanks to the Supreme Court and "Citizen's United". But it didn't start there...

 

1st of all, the Founding Fathers wrote their Constitution mainly to protect the private interests of the wealthy, white, male, propertied class. They actually pretty vehemently opposed the Bill of Rights, but finally gave into them as various states--and The People--forced the issue.

 

There is somewhat a functioning democracy on the smaller, local levels--that is, if anybody but those in charge show up. On the grand scale, though, the U.S. has never really been a fully functioning democracy and the neocon corporatocracy has been in full gear, well, primarily since the Reagan days(see, listen, to my thread on "The Global Dominance Group"http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/75643-global-dominance-group-the-neocon-agenda/) Nader has been pointing this out for decades.

 

And then there's this 'small' issue that the capitalistic corporation is antithetic to democracy:

 

 

The essence of capitalism is not that it has markets. Socialism and communism have markets, too.

Neither is the essence that it has private enterprise (as opposed to public enterprise). There's plenty of public enterprise in capitalist societies.

 

What IS the key defining characteristic of capitalism, is that it has a small class of owners that decides what is produced, where it is produced, how it is produced, and what to do with the profits. The majority of people spending their time in producing the profit, or in other words the surplus fruits of their labor, have ZERO say in all these decisions.

 

Why is it that we hold democracy in such high esteem, but accept that it ends at the door to our workplace?

Capitalism and democracy are opposites.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023687963

[cornographic]

 

 

Just so I understand it... The Chicago Political Machine ... gets a man elected President

You don't understand it. Obama was elected - twice - because he was the best candidate - twice.

 

Had the Republicans pushed a viable candidate either time he likely wouldn't have been elected. Instead we got McCain & Palin - and there was NO WAY most Americans were going to put Sarah Palin one heartbeat away from the Presidency. And in 2012 you got Mitt Romney, one of the worst fake stuffed-shirt candidates we've had since George Dukakis.

 

It wasn't "Chicago politics" that got Obama elected. It was the Republicans. Twice.

 

Everyone understands that the Republicans crapped the bed in the last elections. No question. However, there was a political machine funded by huge amounts of money from very wealthy people that got Obama elected. That is how these elections have happened way longer ago than what Jimmy wants to admit. Infact, I pretty sure there would have been a pretty powerful money machine from wealthy people that got him elected too. To bad he sucked so bad it didn't work the second time.

 

Yep, both dems and repubs are beholden to the same corporate interests--i.e., bought and paid for--therefore you get to vote for Goldman Sachs(et al) or, er, Goldman Sachs. Bernie is the only current candidate that offers a departure from all that.

[cornographic]

 

Just so I understand it... The Chicago Political Machine - by all accounts one of the most openly corrupt political "entities" imaginable - gets a man elected President and it takes some comments by Jimmy Carter 8 years later for this to be discussed ;-)... The Republic vs Democracy distinction aside, I don't think Democracy in this country is any more dead than it's always been. If anything, it's just more transparently obvious than it has been since the "Democratic process" of the 1800s.

 

Obama's funding came from way more small income voters than the Republican funding. It wasn't some sinister psychological brain child of a group that made people vote the way they did.

 

Well, with all their polling and surveying, the rich guys saw that Obama was going to be the voters' choice, so then they started backing him heavily and he's essentially done their bidding while in office.

[BigRedBuster]

Capitalism and democracy are opposites.

 

That's kind of a stupid statement.

 

One is an economic system and one is a form of government. Economic systems and governments are two different things.

 

My problem with his way of thinking is that (it has a small class of owners that decides what is produced, where it is produced, how it is produced, and what to do with the profits.)

Anytime I get deep into this discussion it boils down to someone then saying...."Oh...I'm not talking about small and midsize companies. I'm talking about mega corporations".

 

Well, first of all to that train of thought. Most people do not work for mega corporations. They work for small and midsize companies that make things and more and more people have more say in what happens. Also, to the mega corporations. The "ownership" of those public corporations are you and me. We own those stocks in either private accounts or retirement accounts. Do rich people own more stock? Sure. But, since we own stock too, they aren't the only ones who benefit from that.

 

Heck, I purchased Facebook at $47 right after it came out and I am happy happy happy with that mega corporation's performance.

 

I get so tired of the story line that those evil rich people have all the money and power.

 

Yes, I said that when it comes to politics. However, YOU control your life. Not some rich person. YOU can make it better. YOU can start a company and be self employed if you want. There are loads of opportunity out there for someone who wants to be a business owner. YOU can get educated and get a better job.

 

Just because Bill Gates has billions, that doesn't change your life.