Chicago, murder city USA

[HuskerNation1]

 

 

On one side we have the "religion of peace", Islam torturing, murdering, raping all over the world. And here in the United States we have the peaceful liberal democrats torturing, murdering all over the democratic led cities.

Well done you liberal/progressive/socialists!!! Your murder rate is off the charts. And don't look at me, I didn't vote for him.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/06/chicago-labor-day-violence-6-killed-27-wounded-dead-toddlers-head-found-floating-in-lagoon/

What's comical about this is that Chicago has some of the strictest gun control laws (as does Baltimore), and crime and murders are out of control. Another example that you can't regulate your way out of a problem. Liberals always call for more government as the solution, but the results prove that does not work.

What's also comical is how you glossed over the fact that homicides in Chicago for 2013 were the lowest they've been since 1965 and overall crime the lowest since 1972. Another example of how sometimes numbers require context before you can draw a conclusion from them.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4531328

 

 

Wow, so 2012 there were over 500 murders in Chicago, and you are going to point out the fact that it declined in 2013 as a positive sign. Chicago, despite not being the largest city in the nation, has the most murders, even more than NY City. Also, you pointed out 2013 and failed to show that murder rates increased in 2014 and 2015, so you essentially cherry picked one data point in 2013 in a year coming off of an extreme high in 2012.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/07/09/us-cities-homicide-surge-2015/29879091/

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/us/murder-rates-rising-sharply-in-many-us-cities.html?_r=0

 

To me murders and violence like we are seeing has to do with a lot more than gun control (or lack thereof). First and foremost, bad or a lack of parenting. Should we put in regulations that state that if a mom or dad is absent from a child's life, they should go to jail, or incur a severe fine? Do video games and television shows depicting violence encourage violent behavior by our nation's youth? If so, should we ban these shows and video games? Does a lack of religion and connection with God cause criminals to get lost and commit more crime? If so, is the answer to force more religion in people's lives? I'm guessing for many of these questions, your answer would be no, as the government should not be mandating or dictating how children are raised, both at home and spiritually.

[ZRod]

I'm not cherry picking, I'm using the most complete data available and not calling a single year a trend. The overwhelming trend for homicides in Chicago is a decrease for the last 30 years. As I said before there have been outliers in the past, hence why I'm not alarmed at 2012 and 2014 (2015 is incomplete). The data point I "cherry picked" was just a quick article I could find that wasn't some alarmist propaganda from either side and didn't contain a possible outlier.

 

Gun violence has everything to do with gun control, and is an extremely complicated issue as well. I don't think it has much to do with any of the points you raised, except possibly the first one. However, that issues is a very deep one in and of itself with racial, economic, and governmental components.

[BigRedBuster]

Are you saying that if we support and pass major gun control violent crimes will go away?

 

 

Ummmm. No

 

Violent crimes are a symptom of much deeper social problems. The gun is only the tool bring used.

 

And, gun control legislation does not make guns disappear off our streets.

[knapplc]

So we're back to the "It won't fix the problem 100% of the time, so let's not do it" argument. That argument has prevented this country from taking any steps forward for years. It's an inflexible position and we don't need inflexibility in government.

 

Let's take steps forward, even if they're half steps, so that we're continually making progress.

[BigRedBuster]

My comments were based on the first sentence of his second paragraph where he claims gun violence has "everything" to do with gun control.

 

My arguments against that doesn't mean reasonable gun control legislation can't be a part of the solution.

 

My personal opinion is that the drop in Chicago is similar to the drop in the country. The rest of the country didn't ban guns. So, there must be something else at work.

 

I actually believe the mass incarceration rate has something to do with that.

 

Now, I understand there are also major problems with that. But, I do believe it dropped the crime rate.

[knapplc]

What would reasonable gun control consist of?

[BigRedBuster]

What would reasonable gun control consist of?

fyi.... I added to my post above.

 

I'm not sure what that would be like. I don't agree with either sides propaganda.

 

I don't believe banning certain types of guns from law abiding citizens will have s major affect. I also don't believe there is this huge movement from government officials to come into our homes and take our guns.

 

I just don't know how reasonable gun legislation should look.

 

Let's say we ban hand guns, are we going to allow police to stop and search? Are we going to then have mass incarceration of people simply because the have a hand gun in their home? To me, that's worse than incarcerating people for having or selling drugs.

[HuskerNation1]

 

What would reasonable gun control consist of?

fyi.... I added to my post above.

 

I'm not sure what that would be like. I don't agree with either sides propaganda.

 

I don't believe banning certain types of guns from law abiding citizens will have s major affect. I also don't believe there is this huge movement from government officials to come into our homes and take our guns.

 

I just don't know how reasonable gun legislation should look.

 

Let's say we ban hand guns, are we going to allow police to stop and search? Are we going to then have mass incarceration of people simply because the have a hand gun in their home? To me, that's worse than incarcerating people for having or selling drugs.

 

 

Crime committed with guns has less to do with the actual weapon of choice and more to do with the person committing the crime. Millions of people have guns and are not killing others with their weapon. If somebody is mentally or emotionally unstable enough to kill someone, they will find a way to do it, whether its a gun, knife, poison, bomb, etc...

The real debate should focus on what might cause someone to think it's ok to kill another human being, and hence I brought up parenting, violence in video games and television, etc... As a Conservative, do I think we should have no gun control laws...no. But I don't think that gun control is the silver bullet (pun intended) the left seems to think it is to solve crime.