New Orleans

[cornographic]

 

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

I would definitely be open to the idea in red. I would love to see an experiment where wage and age restrictions on work are lifted in a high unemployment area and see what happens.

 

Great idea, let them work for less than $7.25, that'll help the poverty and crime rate. Child labor too, again, great idea.

[BigRedBuster]

Well, post Katrina, the good ol' privatizers took the opportunity to decimate the public school system of NO which has been widely criticized:

 

 

 

But the story of how New Orleans arrived at this point is one not of triumph, but of pain and tragedy, in which the city’s devastation from Hurricane Katrina was exploited to enact a radical program of school privatization.

http://www.uft.org/public-ed-under-attack/destruction-new-orleans-public-school-system

Interesting.

 

However, Louisiana is famous for absolutely having the most pathetic public schools in the country. I know people who live there and they absolutely refused to send their kids to public schools simply because they were so bad.

Improve the school systems and people wouldn't be looking for alternatives to where to send their kids.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

I would definitely be open to the idea in red. I would love to see an experiment where wage and age restrictions on work are lifted in a high unemployment area and see what happens.

 

Last time I looked, LA doesn't have a minimum wage requirement. Geez, maybe that has something to do with poverty in N.O. So now y'all want child labor too, is that what this is all about?

 

 

Louisiana doesn't have it's own minimum wage because they abide by the federal minimum wage law.

[cm husker]

 

 

 

 

Yep.

 

 

Any other response?

Well, I would like to see the link. I see a lot of these stats thrown around and sometimes it seems like exaggeration to make a point.

 

I specifically wasn't commenting yet because I wanted to see other people's ideas.

 

I personally think it's all the above. Saying it's poverty is short sighted. There have been times in our country with tremendous poverty and we didn't see crime like we see in some areas.

Also saying it's the drug war and more police won't solve it is also short sighted. Both Chicago and NYC are prime examples of beefed up police forces along with a specific effort by the city government to clean up crime has proven that crime can be greatly diminished. Michigan Ave in down town Chicago used to be a place you did not want to go to. Now, it's a thriving area with little crime.

 

You also said.....

No one who is caught committing violent crimes is being let off.

 

No, that's part of the problem in these situations. The police are so overwhelmed that they can't investigate these crimes the way they should and these criminals are not being caught.

 

krc said....

That's a nice text book answer but it will never work in Nola. Poverty there is generational-4, 5, even six generations have never known anything but government housing, welfare, public assistance and they are probably actually quite happy. It's their normal. The question is, why now are the crime boundaries bleeding over to the middle class and tourist areas? If poverty crimes could be contained to their right boundaries, Nola could be ok again.

 

I think this is a very knowledgable comment. On top of poverty and drugs, this crime is a cultural thing that has grown. Why didn't we see this kind of crime in the 1930s when my parent's families were so poor my mother didn't eat in a restaurant till she was in HS? Because it wasn't part of their culture. This crime has been driven into these people for generations as just the way life is. No real consistent family structure for kids is a real problem also.

 

Because of this, I don't believe just legalizing drugs is going to do squat.

 

The problem with the poverty issue is, I can't imagine any large industry moving into Nola. High crime rates, a population that is used to living in poverty and on top of that, you have to deal with hurricanes...etc on the coast in an area that is actually below sea level. So, jobs are going to be very hard to grow in the area.

 

 

This issue really is sad for me because I used to really love Nola and the other culture that is prevalent there. Mainly the food and music industry. Yes, I have spent way too much time on bourbon street but never used to feel unsafe. I even passed out one time on a park bench by the river all night and nothing happened to me. Maybe I was lucky, maybe it's just changed that much.

That's an extremely uninformed post regarding the history of crime in the US. There were certainly property crimes in the us during the 1930s. Why weren't we as aware of them? No internet. Why didn't your grandmother commit crimes? Because (a) there wasn't as much to steal back then, (b) drugs weren't illegal and © if she was in a rural area, there simply weren't a lot of people close by. Crime is about opportunity. And for rural people in the 30s there wasn't a lot opportunity.

 

It also shouldn't need to be pointed out, but apparently it does: even in the worst neighborhoods of NOLA, a minority of residents engage in criminal behavior. These are not dens of thieves.

 

These "it's part of their culture" posts are bordering on racist. Just my sense when reading them.

 

Also, you really need to read more about how and why NYC got "fixed" in the 90s. It wasn't about broken window policing.

It's not ill informed. There wasn't anywhere close to the crime level in the 1930s as there is in poverty stricken areas today.

 

And, saying something is racist is not being honest with the situation. I didn't say anything about race in my post.

Yes, I understand you didn't use the word race. But your entire theory implicates it. Unless you think it's poor white New Orleaners in the garden district driving these problems and who need to be "contained in these historically high crime areas."

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

Yep.

 

 

Any other response?

Well, I would like to see the link. I see a lot of these stats thrown around and sometimes it seems like exaggeration to make a point.

 

I specifically wasn't commenting yet because I wanted to see other people's ideas.

 

I personally think it's all the above. Saying it's poverty is short sighted. There have been times in our country with tremendous poverty and we didn't see crime like we see in some areas.

Also saying it's the drug war and more police won't solve it is also short sighted. Both Chicago and NYC are prime examples of beefed up police forces along with a specific effort by the city government to clean up crime has proven that crime can be greatly diminished. Michigan Ave in down town Chicago used to be a place you did not want to go to. Now, it's a thriving area with little crime.

 

You also said.....

No one who is caught committing violent crimes is being let off.

 

No, that's part of the problem in these situations. The police are so overwhelmed that they can't investigate these crimes the way they should and these criminals are not being caught.

 

krc said....

That's a nice text book answer but it will never work in Nola. Poverty there is generational-4, 5, even six generations have never known anything but government housing, welfare, public assistance and they are probably actually quite happy. It's their normal. The question is, why now are the crime boundaries bleeding over to the middle class and tourist areas? If poverty crimes could be contained to their right boundaries, Nola could be ok again.

 

I think this is a very knowledgable comment. On top of poverty and drugs, this crime is a cultural thing that has grown. Why didn't we see this kind of crime in the 1930s when my parent's families were so poor my mother didn't eat in a restaurant till she was in HS? Because it wasn't part of their culture. This crime has been driven into these people for generations as just the way life is. No real consistent family structure for kids is a real problem also.

 

Because of this, I don't believe just legalizing drugs is going to do squat.

 

The problem with the poverty issue is, I can't imagine any large industry moving into Nola. High crime rates, a population that is used to living in poverty and on top of that, you have to deal with hurricanes...etc on the coast in an area that is actually below sea level. So, jobs are going to be very hard to grow in the area.

 

 

This issue really is sad for me because I used to really love Nola and the other culture that is prevalent there. Mainly the food and music industry. Yes, I have spent way too much time on bourbon street but never used to feel unsafe. I even passed out one time on a park bench by the river all night and nothing happened to me. Maybe I was lucky, maybe it's just changed that much.

That's an extremely uninformed post regarding the history of crime in the US. There were certainly property crimes in the us during the 1930s. Why weren't we as aware of them? No internet. Why didn't your grandmother commit crimes? Because (a) there wasn't as much to steal back then, (b) drugs weren't illegal and © if she was in a rural area, there simply weren't a lot of people close by. Crime is about opportunity. And for rural people in the 30s there wasn't a lot opportunity.

 

It also shouldn't need to be pointed out, but apparently it does: even in the worst neighborhoods of NOLA, a minority of residents engage in criminal behavior. These are not dens of thieves.

 

These "it's part of their culture" posts are bordering on racist. Just my sense when reading them.

 

Also, you really need to read more about how and why NYC got "fixed" in the 90s. It wasn't about broken window policing.

It's not ill informed. There wasn't anywhere close to the crime level in the 1930s as there is in poverty stricken areas today.

 

And, saying something is racist is not being honest with the situation. I didn't say anything about race in my post.

Yes, I understand you didn't use the word race. But your entire theory implicates it. Unless you think it's poor white New Orleaners in the garden district driving these problems and who need to be "contained in these historically high crime areas."

 

You are the one bringing race into this...not me.

[cm husker]

 

 

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

I would definitely be open to the idea in red. I would love to see an experiment where wage and age restrictions on work are lifted in a high unemployment area and see what happens.

 

I would be open to the green part depending on what is around it as far as law enforcement actions. Legalize drugs. However, strictly enforce laws against crimes that are caused by the drug activity.

 

Example, I can go down to the bar and drink legally. I can also drive. However, I can not legally drive after I have been drinking and if I do, I get penalized very severely. Law enforcement in our area at least has really cracked down on this in the last 10-20 years. The result??? People don't drink and drive like they used to. Kids don't even drink anymore in this area like they used to when I was a kid because of the amount of trouble they can get into if they do.

 

So.....take that attitude towards drug use. OK...you can go fry your brain on meth if you want. However, if you commit a crime because you are whacked out on meth, the penalty is pretty severe.

I'm all for prosecuting offenders that you describe. I think the advantage of taking drug enforcement off the list of responsibilities means police have more resources to focus on those crimes.

 

I would get even more "more radical" in my policy theories about how to reduce use and use related crimes, but that's for another thread.

[cornographic]

 

 

 

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

I would definitely be open to the idea in red. I would love to see an experiment where wage and age restrictions on work are lifted in a high unemployment area and see what happens.

 

Last time I looked, LA doesn't have a minimum wage requirement. Geez, maybe that has something to do with poverty in N.O. So now y'all want child labor too, is that what this is all about?

 

 

Louisiana doesn't have it's own minimum wage because they abide by the federal minimum wage law.

 

I corrected my post. I think adults and children working for less than 7.25/hr won't help the crime prob of which you complain.

[cm husker]

 

 

 

 

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

I would definitely be open to the idea in red. I would love to see an experiment where wage and age restrictions on work are lifted in a high unemployment area and see what happens.

Great idea, let them work for less than $7.25, that'll help the poverty and crime rate. Child labor too, again, great idea.

$7.25 is actually a pretty good wage in Louisiana. Lousiana's situation is a perfect example of why minimum wage doesn't work. If a person can't produce $7.25 per hour in productivity, an emoployer simply can't pay that person to work. It's simple and truly intractable math.

 

And I would love to let kids at 15/16 leave school early to start their careers in a trade.

 

It's insane to me that we outsource jobs to India, which I'm a huge fan of economically speaking, when we poor us communities being left behind. And the solution isn't to try to raise walls between countries. It should be about removing the impediments to industries moving to those US impoverished communities.

[cm husker]

 

 

 

 

Yep.

 

 

Any other response?

Well, I would like to see the link. I see a lot of these stats thrown around and sometimes it seems like exaggeration to make a point.

 

I specifically wasn't commenting yet because I wanted to see other people's ideas.

 

I personally think it's all the above. Saying it's poverty is short sighted. There have been times in our country with tremendous poverty and we didn't see crime like we see in some areas.

Also saying it's the drug war and more police won't solve it is also short sighted. Both Chicago and NYC are prime examples of beefed up police forces along with a specific effort by the city government to clean up crime has proven that crime can be greatly diminished. Michigan Ave in down town Chicago used to be a place you did not want to go to. Now, it's a thriving area with little crime.

 

You also said.....

No one who is caught committing violent crimes is being let off.

 

No, that's part of the problem in these situations. The police are so overwhelmed that they can't investigate these crimes the way they should and these criminals are not being caught.

 

krc said....

That's a nice text book answer but it will never work in Nola. Poverty there is generational-4, 5, even six generations have never known anything but government housing, welfare, public assistance and they are probably actually quite happy. It's their normal. The question is, why now are the crime boundaries bleeding over to the middle class and tourist areas? If poverty crimes could be contained to their right boundaries, Nola could be ok again.

 

I think this is a very knowledgable comment. On top of poverty and drugs, this crime is a cultural thing that has grown. Why didn't we see this kind of crime in the 1930s when my parent's families were so poor my mother didn't eat in a restaurant till she was in HS? Because it wasn't part of their culture. This crime has been driven into these people for generations as just the way life is. No real consistent family structure for kids is a real problem also.

 

Because of this, I don't believe just legalizing drugs is going to do squat.

 

The problem with the poverty issue is, I can't imagine any large industry moving into Nola. High crime rates, a population that is used to living in poverty and on top of that, you have to deal with hurricanes...etc on the coast in an area that is actually below sea level. So, jobs are going to be very hard to grow in the area.

 

 

This issue really is sad for me because I used to really love Nola and the other culture that is prevalent there. Mainly the food and music industry. Yes, I have spent way too much time on bourbon street but never used to feel unsafe. I even passed out one time on a park bench by the river all night and nothing happened to me. Maybe I was lucky, maybe it's just changed that much.

That's an extremely uninformed post regarding the history of crime in the US. There were certainly property crimes in the us during the 1930s. Why weren't we as aware of them? No internet. Why didn't your grandmother commit crimes? Because (a) there wasn't as much to steal back then, (b) drugs weren't illegal and © if she was in a rural area, there simply weren't a lot of people close by. Crime is about opportunity. And for rural people in the 30s there wasn't a lot opportunity.

 

It also shouldn't need to be pointed out, but apparently it does: even in the worst neighborhoods of NOLA, a minority of residents engage in criminal behavior. These are not dens of thieves.

 

These "it's part of their culture" posts are bordering on racist. Just my sense when reading them.

 

Also, you really need to read more about how and why NYC got "fixed" in the 90s. It wasn't about broken window policing.

When you insinuate talking about cultural is racist, you may be a racist. Why should any culture be ashamed of their heritage and who died and left you to fix it? A very condescending attitude you are projecting.

This is positively Orwellian. Well done.

 

I'm simply saying, don't relegate people to a lot in life based on their "culture" which is what you stated that we do (as long as the crime is contained to "their" area).

 

I'm saying, how about we stop the outside policies that may be exasperating the situation.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

I would definitely be open to the idea in red. I would love to see an experiment where wage and age restrictions on work are lifted in a high unemployment area and see what happens.

 

Last time I looked, LA doesn't have a minimum wage requirement. Geez, maybe that has something to do with poverty in N.O. So now y'all want child labor too, is that what this is all about?

 

 

Louisiana doesn't have it's own minimum wage because they abide by the federal minimum wage law.

 

I corrected my post. I think adults and children working for less than 7.25/hr won't help the crime prob of which you complain.

 

Having children working is not by itself a bad thing. I worked from time to time when I was probably 10 in farming. If done right, it would get kids off the streets, teach them a work ethic and a skill. It would also allow the house hold to increase their income which would increase their living conditions.

 

Put restrictions on it that htey can only work certain types of jobs, # of hours etc. Also, I wouldn't be opposed to any of this decreasing the amount of welfare they are getting until they get to a certain level of income.

 

Back to what I did when I was a kid. I now have a 15 year old son. It is virtually impossible for me to find him a job even in a small town like this due to laws preventing him doing so. Heck, he can't even get hired on at the local golf course to mow grass. So....he sits at home and mows our grass twice a week.

 

Child labor laws are like many laws. In theory they are great. However, many times they are taken way farther than they should.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

Yep.

 

 

Any other response?

Well, I would like to see the link. I see a lot of these stats thrown around and sometimes it seems like exaggeration to make a point.

 

I specifically wasn't commenting yet because I wanted to see other people's ideas.

 

I personally think it's all the above. Saying it's poverty is short sighted. There have been times in our country with tremendous poverty and we didn't see crime like we see in some areas.

Also saying it's the drug war and more police won't solve it is also short sighted. Both Chicago and NYC are prime examples of beefed up police forces along with a specific effort by the city government to clean up crime has proven that crime can be greatly diminished. Michigan Ave in down town Chicago used to be a place you did not want to go to. Now, it's a thriving area with little crime.

 

You also said.....

No one who is caught committing violent crimes is being let off.

 

No, that's part of the problem in these situations. The police are so overwhelmed that they can't investigate these crimes the way they should and these criminals are not being caught.

 

krc said....

That's a nice text book answer but it will never work in Nola. Poverty there is generational-4, 5, even six generations have never known anything but government housing, welfare, public assistance and they are probably actually quite happy. It's their normal. The question is, why now are the crime boundaries bleeding over to the middle class and tourist areas? If poverty crimes could be contained to their right boundaries, Nola could be ok again.

 

I think this is a very knowledgable comment. On top of poverty and drugs, this crime is a cultural thing that has grown. Why didn't we see this kind of crime in the 1930s when my parent's families were so poor my mother didn't eat in a restaurant till she was in HS? Because it wasn't part of their culture. This crime has been driven into these people for generations as just the way life is. No real consistent family structure for kids is a real problem also.

 

Because of this, I don't believe just legalizing drugs is going to do squat.

 

The problem with the poverty issue is, I can't imagine any large industry moving into Nola. High crime rates, a population that is used to living in poverty and on top of that, you have to deal with hurricanes...etc on the coast in an area that is actually below sea level. So, jobs are going to be very hard to grow in the area.

 

 

This issue really is sad for me because I used to really love Nola and the other culture that is prevalent there. Mainly the food and music industry. Yes, I have spent way too much time on bourbon street but never used to feel unsafe. I even passed out one time on a park bench by the river all night and nothing happened to me. Maybe I was lucky, maybe it's just changed that much.

That's an extremely uninformed post regarding the history of crime in the US. There were certainly property crimes in the us during the 1930s. Why weren't we as aware of them? No internet. Why didn't your grandmother commit crimes? Because (a) there wasn't as much to steal back then, (b) drugs weren't illegal and © if she was in a rural area, there simply weren't a lot of people close by. Crime is about opportunity. And for rural people in the 30s there wasn't a lot opportunity.

 

It also shouldn't need to be pointed out, but apparently it does: even in the worst neighborhoods of NOLA, a minority of residents engage in criminal behavior. These are not dens of thieves.

 

These "it's part of their culture" posts are bordering on racist. Just my sense when reading them.

 

Also, you really need to read more about how and why NYC got "fixed" in the 90s. It wasn't about broken window policing.

When you insinuate talking about cultural is racist, you may be a racist. Why should any culture be ashamed of their heritage and who died and left you to fix it? A very condescending attitude you are projecting.

This is positively Orwellian. Well done.

 

I'm simply saying, don't relegate people to a lot in life based on their "culture" which is what you stated that we do (as long as the crime is contained to "their" area).

 

I'm saying, how about we stop the outside policies that may be exasperating the situation.

 

I did no such thing.

[cm husker]

Well, post Katrina, the good ol' privatizers took the opportunity to decimate the public school system of NO which has been widely criticized:

 

 

But the story of how New Orleans arrived at this point is one not of triumph, but of pain and tragedy, in which the citys devastation from Hurricane Katrina was exploited to enact a radical program of school privatization.

http://www.uft.org/public-ed-under-attack/destruction-new-orleans-public-school-system

Privatized schools have been improving situations around the world. It's not always pretty, but neither is the public schools system (though they hide the UN prettiness better). But it's far more efficient and effective. We know because parents are opting for it when given a choice.

 

My mother is a public school teacher in the south and her school received a lot of Katrina kids. I can tell you that New Orleans public schools were anything but good before Katrina.

[cornographic]

 

 

 

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

I would definitely be open to the idea in red. I would love to see an experiment where wage and age restrictions on work are lifted in a high unemployment area and see what happens.

Great idea, let them work for less than $7.25, that'll help the poverty and crime rate. Child labor too, again, great idea.

$7.25 is actually a pretty good wage in Louisiana. Lousiana's situation is a perfect example of why minimum wage doesn't work. If a person can't produce $7.25 per hour in productivity, an emoployer simply can't pay that person to work. It's simple and truly intractable math.

 

And I would love to let kids at 15/16 leave school early to start their careers in a trade.

 

It's insane to me that we outsource jobs to India, which I'm a huge fan of economically speaking, when we poor us communities being left behind. And the solution isn't to try to raise walls between countries. It should be about removing the impediments to industries moving to those US impoverished communities.

 

Of course I disagree, I prefer to raise standards of living, you know, "make Mur'ca great again'" like Trumpf says. But have it your way, why the hell don't we just go all the way global competitive and get kids outta school and into the work force and competing with adults--globally--for a buck an hr or so? That's where it's heading. As to India, I can't recall the link but they have had a resurgence of abusive child labor practices in the last year or so, to add to their already "distinguished" reputation in this regard. Race to the bottom baby....

[cm husker]

That's a nice text book answer but it will never work in Nola. Poverty there is generational-4, 5, even six generations have never known anything but government housing, welfare, public assistance and they are probably actually quite happy. It's their normal. The question is, why now are the crime boundaries bleeding over to the middle class and tourist areas? If poverty crimes could be contained to their right boundaries, Nola could be ok again.

You seem to say exactly what I summarized in my post here, kcr.

[cm husker]

 

 

 

 

 

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

I would definitely be open to the idea in red. I would love to see an experiment where wage and age restrictions on work are lifted in a high unemployment area and see what happens.

Great idea, let them work for less than $7.25, that'll help the poverty and crime rate. Child labor too, again, great idea.

$7.25 is actually a pretty good wage in Louisiana. Lousiana's situation is a perfect example of why minimum wage doesn't work. If a person can't produce $7.25 per hour in productivity, an emoployer simply can't pay that person to work. It's simple and truly intractable math.

 

And I would love to let kids at 15/16 leave school early to start their careers in a trade.

 

It's insane to me that we outsource jobs to India, which I'm a huge fan of economically speaking, when we poor us communities being left behind. And the solution isn't to try to raise walls between countries. It should be about removing the impediments to industries moving to those US impoverished communities.

Of course I disagree, I prefer to raise standards of living, you know, "make Mur'ca great again'" like Trumpf says. But have it your way, why the hell don't we just go all the way global competitive and get kids outta school and into the work force and competing with adults--globally--for a buck an hr or so? That's where it's heading. As to India, I can't recall the link but they have had a resurgence of abusive child labor practices in the last year or so, to add to their already "distinguished" reputation in this regard. Race to the bottom baby....

People talk about a race to the bottom, but if you look at it historically, the bottom keeps rising in liberal economies.

 

Unlike in socialist economies, where everyone seems to be dragged to the bottom, except for the politicians who manager the unavoidable human corruption that permeates any economy but is particularly well fostered in those noncompetive systems.

 

You can't raise the standard of living by edict. A simple truth that is lost on so many well intentioned progressives.