New Orleans

[cm husker]

That's an absurdly narrow view.

 

Is rural China or urban India better situated for advancement? Of course not. Segregationist policies were horrendous and continued disenfranchisement (I'm not referring to voting) is an obstacle, but no more so than two nations of people who were yoked by socialism for decades.

 

And if crimes seeping into the neighborhoods that fund it, then it's about time. Maybe that will spur some real reform.

 

P.S. Not sure if this was intentional on your part, but 6 generations ago there was slavery in NOLA.

[cm husker]

This stuff really bugs me because 3 generations ago my grandfather was dirt poor in western Nebraska. He fought and scrapped his way up working awful jobs (and fighting a war as a draftee) and he never had to deal with the obstacles imposed by current protectionist policies.

 

We ask poor people to pull themselves up but we hamstring them from doing so.

 

 

And if I lived in those conditions, I'd probably sell drugs to suburbanites too.

[krc1995]

Come live and work here. It's not narrow its the truth. Western Nebraska is not Nola. And six generations is about 100 years in south. My work in the educational field frequently takes me into houses in very poor areas. Last week during a home visit, four generations were present and the fifth was at the grocery store. These have always been high crime areas why are people so concerned now?

[BigRedBuster]

Yep.

 

 

Any other response?

Well, I would like to see the link. I see a lot of these stats thrown around and sometimes it seems like exaggeration to make a point.

 

I specifically wasn't commenting yet because I wanted to see other people's ideas.

 

I personally think it's all the above. Saying it's poverty is short sighted. There have been times in our country with tremendous poverty and we didn't see crime like we see in some areas.

Also saying it's the drug war and more police won't solve it is also short sighted. Both Chicago and NYC are prime examples of beefed up police forces along with a specific effort by the city government to clean up crime has proven that crime can be greatly diminished. Michigan Ave in down town Chicago used to be a place you did not want to go to. Now, it's a thriving area with little crime.

 

You also said.....

 

No one who is caught committing violent crimes is being let off.

 

 

No, that's part of the problem in these situations. The police are so overwhelmed that they can't investigate these crimes the way they should and these criminals are not being caught.

 

krc said....

 

That's a nice text book answer but it will never work in Nola. Poverty there is generational-4, 5, even six generations have never known anything but government housing, welfare, public assistance and they are probably actually quite happy. It's their normal. The question is, why now are the crime boundaries bleeding over to the middle class and tourist areas? If poverty crimes could be contained to their right boundaries, Nola could be ok again.

 

 

I think this is a very knowledgable comment. On top of poverty and drugs, this crime is a cultural thing that has grown. Why didn't we see this kind of crime in the 1930s when my parent's families were so poor my mother didn't eat in a restaurant till she was in HS? Because it wasn't part of their culture. This crime has been driven into these people for generations as just the way life is. No real consistent family structure for kids is a real problem also.

 

Because of this, I don't believe just legalizing drugs is going to do squat.

 

The problem with the poverty issue is, I can't imagine any large industry moving into Nola. High crime rates, a population that is used to living in poverty and on top of that, you have to deal with hurricanes...etc on the coast in an area that is actually below sea level. So, jobs are going to be very hard to grow in the area.

 

 

This issue really is sad for me because I used to really love Nola and the other culture that is prevalent there. Mainly the food and music industry. Yes, I have spent way too much time on bourbon street but never used to feel unsafe. I even passed out one time on a park bench by the river all night and nothing happened to me. Maybe I was lucky, maybe it's just changed that much.

[krc1995]

I too have spent more than my share of time on bourbon. I no longer find that area fun because I've aged out(too old) so we started frequently the central business district/warehouse area and nothing has ever happened but I feel it might. People just look at everyone different, even in broad daylight it's like a predictor/prey look.

 

For Nola, Katrina was the spoon that stirred the pot. Poverty/race issues that had simmered at the surface boiled over on the nationally stage and every politician that could stir the pot, did. Then you had people displaced and neighborhoods shifted and the history and cultural balance was disrupted and disorganized. Check out what happend to Houston's violent crime rates after Katrina. Of course Katrina doesn't explain Chicago or DC so there's other mitigating factors nationwide.

[cm husker]

Come live and work here. It's not narrow its the truth. Western Nebraska is not Nola. And six generations is about 100 years in south. My work in the educational field frequently takes me into houses in very poor areas. Last week during a home visit, four generations were present and the fifth was at the grocery store. These have always been high crime areas why are people so concerned now?

Cynically, I think this Smith shooting is going to be used as a political tool for attacks on Louisiana cuts and lax gun laws, and the reactionaries will hit back just as hard.

 

What sort of work do you? I ask because a couple of friends are social works and several are cops and they do feel things are dire, but their analysis is often based on their experience with "the worst of the worst." The question isn't how do we fix the worst of the worst, it's how do we empower the good people who are in a bad situation. Even reaching 20% of the people who fall down on the path of progress would make a huge difference in only a couple of generations.

 

I simply don't believe it's an intractable problem. But it's not a problem that will be fixed with more of the same.

[cm husker]

 

 

Yep.

 

 

Any other response?

Well, I would like to see the link. I see a lot of these stats thrown around and sometimes it seems like exaggeration to make a point.

 

I specifically wasn't commenting yet because I wanted to see other people's ideas.

 

I personally think it's all the above. Saying it's poverty is short sighted. There have been times in our country with tremendous poverty and we didn't see crime like we see in some areas.

Also saying it's the drug war and more police won't solve it is also short sighted. Both Chicago and NYC are prime examples of beefed up police forces along with a specific effort by the city government to clean up crime has proven that crime can be greatly diminished. Michigan Ave in down town Chicago used to be a place you did not want to go to. Now, it's a thriving area with little crime.

 

You also said.....

No one who is caught committing violent crimes is being let off.

 

No, that's part of the problem in these situations. The police are so overwhelmed that they can't investigate these crimes the way they should and these criminals are not being caught.

 

krc said....

That's a nice text book answer but it will never work in Nola. Poverty there is generational-4, 5, even six generations have never known anything but government housing, welfare, public assistance and they are probably actually quite happy. It's their normal. The question is, why now are the crime boundaries bleeding over to the middle class and tourist areas? If poverty crimes could be contained to their right boundaries, Nola could be ok again.

 

I think this is a very knowledgable comment. On top of poverty and drugs, this crime is a cultural thing that has grown. Why didn't we see this kind of crime in the 1930s when my parent's families were so poor my mother didn't eat in a restaurant till she was in HS? Because it wasn't part of their culture. This crime has been driven into these people for generations as just the way life is. No real consistent family structure for kids is a real problem also.

 

Because of this, I don't believe just legalizing drugs is going to do squat.

 

The problem with the poverty issue is, I can't imagine any large industry moving into Nola. High crime rates, a population that is used to living in poverty and on top of that, you have to deal with hurricanes...etc on the coast in an area that is actually below sea level. So, jobs are going to be very hard to grow in the area.

 

 

This issue really is sad for me because I used to really love Nola and the other culture that is prevalent there. Mainly the food and music industry. Yes, I have spent way too much time on bourbon street but never used to feel unsafe. I even passed out one time on a park bench by the river all night and nothing happened to me. Maybe I was lucky, maybe it's just changed that much.

That's an extremely uninformed post regarding the history of crime in the US. There were certainly property crimes in the us during the 1930s. Why weren't we as aware of them? No internet. Why didn't your grandmother commit crimes? Because (a) there wasn't as much to steal back then, (b) drugs weren't illegal and © if she was in a rural area, there simply weren't a lot of people close by. Crime is about opportunity. And for rural people in the 30s there wasn't a lot opportunity.

 

It also shouldn't need to be pointed out, but apparently it does: even in the worst neighborhoods of NOLA, a minority of residents engage in criminal behavior. These are not dens of thieves.

 

These "it's part of their culture" posts are bordering on racist. Just my sense when reading them.

 

Also, you really need to read more about how and why NYC got "fixed" in the 90s. It wasn't about broken window policing.

[cm husker]

Why would a company move to Calcutta but not New Orleans or Detroit?

 

Take down the barriers to entry, and companies will move there.

[BigRedBuster]

The question isn't how do we fix the worst of the worst, it's how do we empower the good people who are in a bad situation. Even reaching 20% of the people who fall down on the path of progress would make a huge difference in only a couple of generations.

 

I think you have to work from both ends.

 

You have the worst of the worst that aren't going to change. You then have the good who are caught in a bad situation.

 

So....we have to show the good how to improve their lot in life and get out of that bad situation. We also have to get the worst of the worst off the streets and the community has to actively see that happening.

 

THEN, you have the people/kids in the middle. They see two paths to life. One is to work and get out of the bad situation on the path they see others taking. OR, they go the path of the worst and end up dead or in prison.

 

It's their choice at that point.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

Yep.

 

 

Any other response?

Well, I would like to see the link. I see a lot of these stats thrown around and sometimes it seems like exaggeration to make a point.

 

I specifically wasn't commenting yet because I wanted to see other people's ideas.

 

I personally think it's all the above. Saying it's poverty is short sighted. There have been times in our country with tremendous poverty and we didn't see crime like we see in some areas.

Also saying it's the drug war and more police won't solve it is also short sighted. Both Chicago and NYC are prime examples of beefed up police forces along with a specific effort by the city government to clean up crime has proven that crime can be greatly diminished. Michigan Ave in down town Chicago used to be a place you did not want to go to. Now, it's a thriving area with little crime.

 

You also said.....

No one who is caught committing violent crimes is being let off.

 

No, that's part of the problem in these situations. The police are so overwhelmed that they can't investigate these crimes the way they should and these criminals are not being caught.

 

krc said....

That's a nice text book answer but it will never work in Nola. Poverty there is generational-4, 5, even six generations have never known anything but government housing, welfare, public assistance and they are probably actually quite happy. It's their normal. The question is, why now are the crime boundaries bleeding over to the middle class and tourist areas? If poverty crimes could be contained to their right boundaries, Nola could be ok again.

 

I think this is a very knowledgable comment. On top of poverty and drugs, this crime is a cultural thing that has grown. Why didn't we see this kind of crime in the 1930s when my parent's families were so poor my mother didn't eat in a restaurant till she was in HS? Because it wasn't part of their culture. This crime has been driven into these people for generations as just the way life is. No real consistent family structure for kids is a real problem also.

 

Because of this, I don't believe just legalizing drugs is going to do squat.

 

The problem with the poverty issue is, I can't imagine any large industry moving into Nola. High crime rates, a population that is used to living in poverty and on top of that, you have to deal with hurricanes...etc on the coast in an area that is actually below sea level. So, jobs are going to be very hard to grow in the area.

 

 

This issue really is sad for me because I used to really love Nola and the other culture that is prevalent there. Mainly the food and music industry. Yes, I have spent way too much time on bourbon street but never used to feel unsafe. I even passed out one time on a park bench by the river all night and nothing happened to me. Maybe I was lucky, maybe it's just changed that much.

That's an extremely uninformed post regarding the history of crime in the US. There were certainly property crimes in the us during the 1930s. Why weren't we as aware of them? No internet. Why didn't your grandmother commit crimes? Because (a) there wasn't as much to steal back then, (b) drugs weren't illegal and © if she was in a rural area, there simply weren't a lot of people close by. Crime is about opportunity. And for rural people in the 30s there wasn't a lot opportunity.

 

It also shouldn't need to be pointed out, but apparently it does: even in the worst neighborhoods of NOLA, a minority of residents engage in criminal behavior. These are not dens of thieves.

 

These "it's part of their culture" posts are bordering on racist. Just my sense when reading them.

 

Also, you really need to read more about how and why NYC got "fixed" in the 90s. It wasn't about broken window policing.

 

It's not ill informed. There wasn't anywhere close to the crime level in the 1930s as there is in poverty stricken areas today.

 

And, saying something is racist is not being honest with the situation. I didn't say anything about race in my post.

[cm husker]

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

[cornographic]

Well, post Katrina, the good ol' privatizers took the opportunity to decimate the public school system of NO which has been widely criticized:

 

 

 

But the story of how New Orleans arrived at this point is one not of triumph, but of pain and tragedy, in which the city’s devastation from Hurricane Katrina was exploited to enact a radical program of school privatization.

http://www.uft.org/public-ed-under-attack/destruction-new-orleans-public-school-system

[krc1995]

 

 

 

Yep.

 

 

Any other response?

Well, I would like to see the link. I see a lot of these stats thrown around and sometimes it seems like exaggeration to make a point.

 

I specifically wasn't commenting yet because I wanted to see other people's ideas.

 

I personally think it's all the above. Saying it's poverty is short sighted. There have been times in our country with tremendous poverty and we didn't see crime like we see in some areas.

Also saying it's the drug war and more police won't solve it is also short sighted. Both Chicago and NYC are prime examples of beefed up police forces along with a specific effort by the city government to clean up crime has proven that crime can be greatly diminished. Michigan Ave in down town Chicago used to be a place you did not want to go to. Now, it's a thriving area with little crime.

 

You also said.....

No one who is caught committing violent crimes is being let off.

 

No, that's part of the problem in these situations. The police are so overwhelmed that they can't investigate these crimes the way they should and these criminals are not being caught.

 

krc said....

That's a nice text book answer but it will never work in Nola. Poverty there is generational-4, 5, even six generations have never known anything but government housing, welfare, public assistance and they are probably actually quite happy. It's their normal. The question is, why now are the crime boundaries bleeding over to the middle class and tourist areas? If poverty crimes could be contained to their right boundaries, Nola could be ok again.

 

I think this is a very knowledgable comment. On top of poverty and drugs, this crime is a cultural thing that has grown. Why didn't we see this kind of crime in the 1930s when my parent's families were so poor my mother didn't eat in a restaurant till she was in HS? Because it wasn't part of their culture. This crime has been driven into these people for generations as just the way life is. No real consistent family structure for kids is a real problem also.

 

Because of this, I don't believe just legalizing drugs is going to do squat.

 

The problem with the poverty issue is, I can't imagine any large industry moving into Nola. High crime rates, a population that is used to living in poverty and on top of that, you have to deal with hurricanes...etc on the coast in an area that is actually below sea level. So, jobs are going to be very hard to grow in the area.

 

 

This issue really is sad for me because I used to really love Nola and the other culture that is prevalent there. Mainly the food and music industry. Yes, I have spent way too much time on bourbon street but never used to feel unsafe. I even passed out one time on a park bench by the river all night and nothing happened to me. Maybe I was lucky, maybe it's just changed that much.

That's an extremely uninformed post regarding the history of crime in the US. There were certainly property crimes in the us during the 1930s. Why weren't we as aware of them? No internet. Why didn't your grandmother commit crimes? Because (a) there wasn't as much to steal back then, (b) drugs weren't illegal and © if she was in a rural area, there simply weren't a lot of people close by. Crime is about opportunity. And for rural people in the 30s there wasn't a lot opportunity.

 

It also shouldn't need to be pointed out, but apparently it does: even in the worst neighborhoods of NOLA, a minority of residents engage in criminal behavior. These are not dens of thieves.

 

These "it's part of their culture" posts are bordering on racist. Just my sense when reading them.

 

Also, you really need to read more about how and why NYC got "fixed" in the 90s. It wasn't about broken window policing.

When you insinuate talking about cultural is racist, you may be a racist. Why should any culture be ashamed of their heritage and who died and left you to fix it? A very condescending attitude you are projecting.

[cm husker]

I hesitate to bring statistics into this, but this article contains some important context: http://www.npr.org/2015/08/11/431234794/new-orleans-overall-crime-rate-has-fallen-why-are-people-so-frustrated

 

On a per capita basis, the crime rates for non-murder offenses are on par with other areas. Murder rates have actually been dropping in recent years, despite the opposite impression.

 

Interestingly, a lot of the African American citizens are asking for more police on the street. But it sounds like more as a prophylactic than out of a desire to see more people locked up.

[BigRedBuster]

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

I would definitely be open to the idea in red. I would love to see an experiment where wage and age restrictions on work are lifted in a high unemployment area and see what happens.

 

I would be open to the green part depending on what is around it as far as law enforcement actions. Legalize drugs. However, strictly enforce laws against crimes that are caused by the drug activity.

 

Example, I can go down to the bar and drink legally. I can also drive. However, I can not legally drive after I have been drinking and if I do, I get penalized very severely. Law enforcement in our area at least has really cracked down on this in the last 10-20 years. The result??? People don't drink and drive like they used to. Kids don't even drink anymore in this area like they used to when I was a kid because of the amount of trouble they can get into if they do.

 

So.....take that attitude towards drug use. OK...you can go fry your brain on meth if you want. However, if you commit a crime because you are whacked out on meth, the penalty is pretty severe.