New Orleans

[cornographic]

 

 

 

 

 

Would anyone here oppose allowing the mayor to remove federal requirements like minimum wage and age restriction on work and allowing New Orleans to determine if it wants to enforce drug prohibition?

I would definitely be open to the idea in red. I would love to see an experiment where wage and age restrictions on work are lifted in a high unemployment area and see what happens.

 

Last time I looked, LA doesn't have a minimum wage requirement. Geez, maybe that has something to do with poverty in N.O. So now y'all want child labor too, is that what this is all about?

 

 

Louisiana doesn't have it's own minimum wage because they abide by the federal minimum wage law.

 

I corrected my post. I think adults and children working for less than 7.25/hr won't help the crime prob of which you complain.

 

Having children working is not by itself a bad thing. I worked from time to time when I was probably 10 in farming. If done right, it would get kids off the streets, teach them a work ethic and a skill. It would also allow the house hold to increase their income which would increase their living conditions.

 

Put restrictions on it that htey can only work certain types of jobs, # of hours etc. Also, I wouldn't be opposed to any of this decreasing the amount of welfare they are getting until they get to a certain level of income.

 

Back to what I did when I was a kid. I now have a 15 year old son. It is virtually impossible for me to find him a job even in a small town like this due to laws preventing him doing so. Heck, he can't even get hired on at the local golf course to mow grass. So....he sits at home and mows our grass twice a week.

 

Child labor laws are like many laws. In theory they are great. However, many times they are taken way farther than they should.

 

I'm not talking about part time summer work and all that, and working here and there on a family farm isn't the same as a 10 yr old flippin' burgers and what not. The other thing is, the inner cities generally don't have enough jobs floating around for the adults, let alone kids.

[cm husker]

First, a 10 year old isn't going to be flipping burgers. No manager would hire a 10 year old over a 16 year old or a 22 year old. That's an asinine strawman.

 

But could a 15 year old? Yes. Could they be working in other service industries and developing skills while also reaping benefits of their productivity? Yes.

 

Jobs are not in finite supply, as though they grow on trees or "float around" until someone snatches one. Productivity leads to the ability to buy other people's productivity. The problem is inner cities is that there are so many restrictions on the "prime mover of productivity" that the jobs engine can't get moving. Some are regulatory restrictions. Some downward pressure is from the drug situation.

[cornographic]

First, a 10 year old isn't going to be flipping burgers. No manager would hire a 10 year old over a 16 year old or a 22 year old. That's an asinine strawman.

 

But could a 15 year old? Yes. Could they be working in other service industries and developing skills while also reaping benefits of their productivity? Yes.

 

Jobs are not in finite supply, as though they grow on trees or "float around" until someone snatches one. Productivity leads to the ability to buy other people's productivity. The problem is inner cities is that there are so many restrictions on the "prime mover of productivity" that the jobs engine can't get moving. Some are regulatory restrictions. Some downward pressure is from the drug situation.

So, 15 year olds can't work "legally" these days? I thought they could, or they used to. I have no prob with 15 yr olds working part time and completing their h.s. education, at least. They used to have more trade oriented h.s.s also, "tech" schools, but I don't know what it's like nowadays.

[cm husker]

No, they are typically required to be in school, which restricts their hours signficiantly. Ideally, I'd like to see kids be able to pursue technical educations. Unfortunately organized labor has tamped that down in an effort to protect existing members from competition.

[krc1995]

I really think at the heart of poverty/crime issue is the breakdown of the family which leads to poverty which leads to crime.

[BigRedBuster]

How exactly is this not raising standards of living?

Starting point: Everyone in the family unemployed. Industry isn't moving into the area. Crime is rampant and kids don't have anything else to do so they start following around older kids committing those crimes and start doing them also.

 

NOW.....take that area and tell industry....hey....if you move there, we will allow you to start these employees below minimum wage and in certain jobs where it is safe and they can continue their education, we will allow you to employ kids at 10 years old.

 

We will not decrease the government services (up to a certain income level earned outside the home) to those people so that every dollar they earn, goes directly to increasing the income level of the household.

 

I fail to see how that decreases their standard of living.

[cornographic]

No, they are typically required to be in school, which restricts their hours signficiantly. Ideally, I'd like to see kids be able to pursue technical educations. Unfortunately organized labor has tamped that down in an effort to protect existing members from competition.

I think kids should finish h.s. Organized labor only acct's for ~6% of the private workforce. There are far more non union tradesmen than union, so your union bashing doesn't hold water. I guess there are community colleges for those seeking trades, FTMP.

[krc1995]

And this talk of putting teenagers to work as a fix to poverty, is ludicrous But it would maybe limit their energy to be out committing crimes. But so would school and school activities.

[krc1995]

Louisiana's shifted 3-4 years ago away from trade schools to everyone must go to a 4 year University. It was an incredible disservice to the state

[krc1995]

Louisiana's shifted 3-4 years ago away from trade schools to everyone must go to a 4 year University. It was an incredible disservice to the state

[cornographic]

I really think at the heart of poverty/crime issue is the breakdown of the family which leads to poverty which leads to crime.

So, there isn't divorce among more middle class and affluent families? And what about white collar crime?

 

But you are right, there is certainly a strong correlation between poverty and low end crime.

[BigRedBuster]

And this talk of putting teenagers to work as a fix to poverty, is ludicrous But it would maybe limit their energy to be out committing crimes. But so would school and school activities.

Nobody is putting kids to work that don't want to work or that their family doesn't want them to work. And, nobody is talking about forcing them to do labor that is dangerous or harmful to them.

 

The bolded part is true though. If the kid is at a job, he isn't out causing trouble. And, he is also learning a skill and how to work in a work environment. School activities only go so far in a poverty area. If the household needs food on the table and the adults in the family don't have jobs and have turned to selling drugs, guess what the kid is going to be doing? He isn't going to be going to the Chess club meeting. He is going to be working a street corner somewhere selling more meth.

 

Now...take that family and allow them to work in a legitimate job and also allow that kid to do the same (within appropriate parameters) and it could be a win win.

[krc1995]

 

 

I really think at the heart of poverty/crime issue is the breakdown of the family which leads to poverty which leads to crime.

So, there isn't divorce among more middle class and affluent families? And what about white collar crime?

 

But you are right, there is certainly a strong correlation between poverty and low end crime.

I didn't say anything about divorce rates amount races, just in general.

[krc1995]

And I'm speaking of violent crimes. Sorry for the confusion

[cm husker]

I really think at the heart of poverty/crime issue is the breakdown of the family which leads to poverty which leads to crime.

I agree that it's a factor, but it's a chicken or egg thing. Why are a lot of poor families broken up? Often it's an unplanned pregnancy. Sometimes it's someone just bailing. Sometimes it's because of arrest for a low level offense like drug possession.

 

We can't mandate responsible behavior in that regard. All we can do is break down the things that drive people toward irresponsible behavior and quit financing it when it does occur (a tricky proposition when kids are involved).