Microaggression, Hypersensitivity, and victimhood culture?

[zoogs]

 

The entire idea of microaggressions -- micro as in insidious, often accidental and as opposed to overt, not in the sense of 'insignificant' -- I thought was about reaching a better understanding through dialogue.

Are you saying micro and insidious are synonyms?

 

Micro"aggression", yes. Because they're on the surface inconspicuous.

 

A lot of the freakout over this seems to me like people looking for a reason to feel threatened by some newfangled lunacy. Especially people who objectively have had probably the least to be threatened by, in the first place. We're all subject to this tendency to seek affront; it's the same charge leveled in the OP.

 

We all consider it impolite to ask a woman her weight, or her age, for example. (And people who are real dillweeds about it, are there not workplace mechanisms in place to deal with it?) Same kinds of things.

 

I mean, I say "Bless you" -- without the God (this omission would be some fresh PC controversy in another time) -- because it's colloquially polite to most Americans. We adapt to others' norms all the time. There can be some of that in both directions, surely.

[TGHusker]

 

The point is not that they are single, huge offenses. It's that they are a million little cuts that, in sum, can negatively impact a person's experience in this country.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/racial-microagressions-you-hear-on-a-daily-basis

Here are a few examples. Again, the point is not that if you say these things, you're a horrible human being. They just subtly reveal the ways in which we (all) automatically drop people into buckets and regard them differently -- i.e, ethnic people as curiosities who constantly surprise those around them by "acting white", or professional women as shoe models always complimented on their fashion choices first, work quality second. If you've gone through life without ever being asked "So, what other country are you from?", then you have had the luxury of everyone around you assuming you were a natural part of this one. Lucky you.

It's not a straightforward topic (social etiquette is never simple!), but I think a little more awareness all around is good. Don't feel as you have to apologize or defend yourself.

@TG, as an atheist by the way, I've *always* found it very odd to say or receive "Bless you", or in particular "God bless you." I'm thankful that we seem to have generally moderated it to the former. I do know that people mean well, so there's no offense taken. But it does plainly carry a "Hey, we're all Christians here, right?" message to it. I say it, too, to be polite but I can't help but feel a little deceptive when I do. At the end of the day, it's just simpler to be a white Christian guy in America -- not that my life's been some terrible burden.

Another example is "Prayers for ____". It's a standard, almost universal thing to say, but I'm neither Christian nor wish to appear rude. Anyway -- Gesundheit!

 

Zoogs, Gesundheit or Bless you - I think the intent is typically a wish of good health not 'evangelization' or confirmation of faith - as you note "Hey we're all Christians here right?" This is were you look at the heart and receive that message even if the verbiage isn't what you prefer - thus keeping from being offended.

I teach a global business class on the side at a local college and part of the class deals with culture. So, I try to be aware of the cultural differences as much as possible. One day at work we had 13 individuals around the conference table from 8 different countries. I was struck by what we had in common and not what was different about us. But it is easy to forget that while there is a 'general' American culture, we as a people are made up of many cultures, many beliefs - Christian, Atheist, etc, various traditions, etc. And when we see people acting out their culture in a way that is different than our own, we shouldn't be offended that their act or their words weren't in 'our language'. Give grace and enjoy the differences. It makes us richer. It goes wtout saying that we should be aware of the cultural differences and learn to avoid the actions/words that might be offensive to another - hand gestures, private space, phrases, etc. I've had to retype more than 1 email before I sent it to an overseas customer after I considered the audience.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

The entire idea of microaggressions -- micro as in insidious, often accidental and as opposed to overt, not in the sense of 'insignificant' -- I thought was about reaching a better understanding through dialogue.

Are you saying micro and insidious are synonyms?

 

Micro"aggression", yes. Because they're on the surface inconspicuous.

 

A lot of the freakout over this seems to me like people looking for a reason to feel threatened by some newfangled lunacy. Especially people who objectively have had probably the least to be threatened by, in the first place. We're all subject to this tendency to seek affront; it's the same charge leveled in the OP.

 

We all consider it impolite to ask a woman her weight, or her age, for example. (And people who are real dillweeds about it, are there not workplace mechanisms in place to deal with it?) Same kinds of things.

 

I mean, I say "Bless you" -- without the God (this omission would be some fresh PC controversy in another time) -- because it's colloquially polite to most Americans. We adapt to others' norms all the time. There can be some of that in both directions, surely.

 

OK...so someone who points out that saying "bless you" or asking what country you are from should be not tolerated on college campuses is reaching a higher state of enlightenment....

 

While....someone pointing out the lunacy of this is "freaking out"????

[TGHusker]

 

 

 

The entire idea of microaggressions -- micro as in insidious, often accidental and as opposed to overt, not in the sense of 'insignificant' -- I thought was about reaching a better understanding through dialogue.

Are you saying micro and insidious are synonyms?

 

Micro"aggression", yes. Because they're on the surface inconspicuous.

 

A lot of the freakout over this seems to me like people looking for a reason to feel threatened by some newfangled lunacy. Especially people who objectively have had probably the least to be threatened by, in the first place. We're all subject to this tendency to seek affront; it's the same charge leveled in the OP.

 

We all consider it impolite to ask a woman her weight, or her age, for example. (And people who are real dillweeds about it, are there not workplace mechanisms in place to deal with it?) Same kinds of things.

 

I mean, I say "Bless you" -- without the God (this omission would be some fresh PC controversy in another time) -- because it's colloquially polite to most Americans. We adapt to others' norms all the time. There can be some of that in both directions, surely.

 

OK...so someone who points out that saying "bless you" or asking what country you are from should be not tolerated on college campuses is reaching a higher state of enlightenment....

 

While....someone pointing out the lunacy of this is "freaking out"????

 

The micro police our out and patrolling the campuses. College campus, the place for free speech or were suppose to be. Granted offensive speech is one thing but now with all of the politically correct speech as normally defined by the far liberal left we now must add any micro offense. As I noted in my previous post, we need to be culturally sensitive but people also need to put on thicker skin and not be so sensitive (My wife would tell me the same thing at home and does )

 

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8081

 

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/28844/

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

 

The entire idea of microaggressions -- micro as in insidious, often accidental and as opposed to overt, not in the sense of 'insignificant' -- I thought was about reaching a better understanding through dialogue.

Are you saying micro and insidious are synonyms?

 

Micro"aggression", yes. Because they're on the surface inconspicuous.

 

A lot of the freakout over this seems to me like people looking for a reason to feel threatened by some newfangled lunacy. Especially people who objectively have had probably the least to be threatened by, in the first place. We're all subject to this tendency to seek affront; it's the same charge leveled in the OP.

 

We all consider it impolite to ask a woman her weight, or her age, for example. (And people who are real dillweeds about it, are there not workplace mechanisms in place to deal with it?) Same kinds of things.

 

I mean, I say "Bless you" -- without the God (this omission would be some fresh PC controversy in another time) -- because it's colloquially polite to most Americans. We adapt to others' norms all the time. There can be some of that in both directions, surely.

 

OK...so someone who points out that saying "bless you" or asking what country you are from should be not tolerated on college campuses is reaching a higher state of enlightenment....

 

While....someone pointing out the lunacy of this is "freaking out"????

 

The micro police our out and patrolling the campuses. College campus, the place for free speech or were suppose to be. Granted offensive speech is one thing but now with all of the politically correct speech as normally defined by the far liberal left we now must add any micro offense. As I noted in my previous post, we need to be culturally sensitive but people also need to put on thicker skin and not be so sensitive (My wife would tell me the same thing at home and does )

 

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8081

 

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/28844/

 

Ok...So.....basically it's.....

 

Hey Mr. college student, we support free speech and the expression of ideas. BUT.....don't you dare say anything unless it's helpful and necessary. If it's not helpful and necessary, you just shut your trap. We don't want to hear a peep out of you. And....if you don't know if it's helpful and necessary, you just ask us because we are experts in this sort of thing. Until then.....be quiet.

[TGHusker]

Here is how Oklahoma Wesleyan President addressed a similar issue last school year. Warning Zoogs and other non-Christians - this is a Christian univ and he talks about concepts of

quilt and sin (was that a micro-aggressive statement? - not meant to be just don't be offended by these concepts)

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/11/30/college-president-rejects-safe-spaces-writing-this-is-not-a-day-care-this-is-a-university/

 

 

This fall, protests at Yale, Princeton, Duke and the University of Missouri — where the chancellor and system president resigned in the midst of turmoil — drew national attention to the concerns many students have about how minorities are treated on campus.

The protests have also prompted debate about freedom of speech and whether students should be protected from words and ideas that make them uncomfortable.

[Mizzou’s impact is felt on campuses nationwide]

 

Everett Piper, president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University, weighed in with a letter to the campus community:

This past week, I actually had a student come forward after a university chapel service and complain because he felt “victimized” by a sermon on the topic of 1 Corinthians 13. It appears that this young scholar felt offended because a homily on love made him feel bad for not showing love! In his mind, the speaker was wrong for making him, and his peers, feel uncomfortable.

I’m not making this up. Our culture has actually taught our kids to be this self-absorbed and narcissistic! Any time their feelings are hurt, they are the victims! Anyone who dares challenge them and, thus, makes them “feel bad” about themselves, is a “hater,” a “bigot,” an “oppressor,” and a “victimizer.”

I have a message for this young man and all others who care to listen. That feeling of discomfort you have after listening to a sermon is called a conscience! An altar call is supposed to make you feel bad! It is supposed to make you feel guilty! The goal of many a good sermon is to get you to confess your sins — not coddle you in your selfishness. The primary objective of the Church and the Christian faith is your confession, not your self-actualization!

So here’s my advice:

If you want the chaplain to tell you you’re a victim rather than tell you that you need virtue, this may not be the university you’re looking for. If you want to complain about a sermon that makes you feel less than loving for not showing love, this might be the wrong place.

 

 

If you’re more interested in playing the “hater” card than you are in confessing your own hate; if you want to arrogantly lecture, rather than humbly learn; if you don’t want to feel guilt in your soul when you are guilty of sin; if you want to be enabled rather than confronted, there are many universities across the land (in Missouri and elsewhere) that will give you exactly what you want, but Oklahoma Wesleyan isn’t one of them.

At OKWU, we teach you to be selfless rather than self-centered. We are more interested in you practicing personal forgiveness than political revenge. We want you to model interpersonal reconciliation rather than foment personal conflict. We believe the content of your character is more important than the color of your skin. We don’t believe that you have been victimized every time you feel guilty and we don’t issue “trigger warnings” before altar calls.

Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a “safe place”, but rather, a place to learn: to learn that life isn’t about you, but about others; that the bad feeling you have while listening to a sermon is called guilt; that the way to address it is to repent of everything that’s wrong with you rather than blame others for everything that’s wrong with them. This is a place where you will quickly learn that you need to grow up!

This is not a day care. This is a university!

[BigRedBuster]

What ever happened to teaching kids to respect others. But, the world isn't a perfect place. In that case....."sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me".?

[zoogs]

Christ, BRB, are we just talking past each other.

It's not "Hey, I heard someone say 'bless you' on a college campus, lock him up." It is as simple as maybe changing a few habits depending on who you're talking to because it might make them more comfortable. If everyone around you said "Praise Allah" to you every time something good happened, I'm sure you'll deal with it fine, but there might be an easy and more considerate substitute for that. And some things to maybe just avoid saying, period, like whatever the equivalent to "Does your skin color make you hard to see at night?" is for white people.

We talk about good faith and assuming good intentions. Are they still good intentions when someone takes a resolute stand to not even consider avoiding anything that is known to cause people discomfort? It's fine to not know. Most of us don't know, which is the point. That's not willful.

 

And when we see people acting out their culture in a way that is different than our own, we shouldn't be offended that their act or their words weren't in 'our language'. Give grace and enjoy the differences. It makes us richer. It goes wtout saying that we should be aware of the cultural differences and learn to avoid the actions/words that might be offensive to another - hand gestures, private space, phrases, etc. I've had to retype more than 1 email before I sent it to an overseas customer after I considered the audience.

@TG -- this is well said. Wholeheartedly agree.

[TGHusker]

 

Christ, BRB, are we just talking past each other.

It's not "Hey, I heard someone say 'bless you' on a college campus, lock him up." It is as simple as maybe changing a few habits depending on who you're talking to because it might make them more comfortable. If everyone around you said "Praise Allah" to you every time something good happened, I'm sure you'll deal with it fine, but there might be an easy and more considerate substitute for that. And some things to maybe just avoid saying, period, like whatever the equivalent to "Does your skin color make you hard to see at night?" is for white people.

We talk about good faith and assuming good intentions. Are they still good intentions when someone takes a resolute stand to not even consider avoiding anything that is known to cause people discomfort? It's fine to not know. Most of us don't know, which is the point. That's not willful.

 

And when we see people acting out their culture in a way that is different than our own, we shouldn't be offended that their act or their words weren't in 'our language'. Give grace and enjoy the differences. It makes us richer. It goes wtout saying that we should be aware of the cultural differences and learn to avoid the actions/words that might be offensive to another - hand gestures, private space, phrases, etc. I've had to retype more than 1 email before I sent it to an overseas customer after I considered the audience.

@TG -- this is well said. Wholeheartedly agree.

 

Thanks

- also trust when you say quote:" Christ, BRB, are we just talking past each other. end quote", you meant it has honoring the Christ we Christians worship and not in a derogatory way as that might be taken as micro-aggressive talk. (or does it not apply to Christian 'sensitivities' or just the politically correct? Its a "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" world you know)

[zoogs]

I'm using it in the colloquial way, TG. As we do in America, you know

 

It's hard to avoid picking up the habits of a predominately Christian populace. If I were speaking to a Buddhist crowd, I'd probably have made a point of avoiding it. Or if I felt people here were the sort to not like using the Lord's name in vain. I haven't felt that to be true of this board, but you know, maybe better safe than sorry. "Goodness" isn't so hard, either!

 

(Was that possibly an exercise in "Look at how non-oppressive it is to change your habits to accommodate an audience"? )

[TGHusker]

I'm using it in the colloquial way, TG. As we do in America, you know

 

It's hard to avoid picking up the habits of a predominately Christian populace. If I were speaking to a Buddhist crowd, I'd probably have made a point of avoiding it. Or if I felt people here were the sort to not like using the Lord's name in vain. I haven't felt that to be true of this board, but you know, maybe better safe than sorry. "Goodness" isn't so hard, either!

 

(Was that possibly an exercise in "Look at how non-oppressive it is to change your habits to accommodate an audience"? )

Personally I don't like seeing the Lord's name used in vain. (Think of calling someone's mother ugly - personal relationship) However, I know our culture and I also know that I used His name in vain many times before I came to believe. I and Christ have thick enough skins to tolerate it for the sake of having a relationship with the 'offending' person. I have called out a few people over the years to use better language when they were WAY over the board.

[zoogs]

^I hear you, TG. I also avoid it probably 70% of the time, and I should probably try to make that closer to 100.

 

I'm not a big fan of this term, "microaggression". It seems to be fairly recent, and it sounds like the kind of formality someone would dream up for an academic thesis. It's so formal that it clearly predisposes people to be either skeptical or threatened by it. They don't just hand out PhDs, though?

Put another way, look at the threshold for what might be considered an attack on our own norms and sensibilities. Plenty of that anxiety here. If it makes sense to you to put up your guard, perhaps it should make sense why it's happening from the other side in the first place, too. And as has been illustrated with a few examples (from both sides), it takes two people not assuming the worst to go forward.

"Safe spaces" is another term I'm not the biggest fan of. For many of us, basically our waking life occurs in a safe zone. Some have to carve it out for themselves. And they could use some company so they're not in there alone.

Some of the people I've been disagreeing with here are the most polite, good-natured, and considerate people I've come across in any corner of the internet. If you knew a newly-arrived immigrant struggling to navigate their way in America, you'd all be the type to volunteer to help them feel at home. Call that by a different name, a politically charged name, and we end up in opposite corners. :\ Still, rhetoric aside, I feel like we must be coming from the same basic place.

[TGHusker]

Yep. Most people come from a similar cloth - they want what is best for their family, they want to live peaceful lives, and they want to get along wt their neighbors and even serve each other if possible.

[TGHusker]

An interesting side bar:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2016/09/01/georgetown-to-give-slave-descendants-priority-for-admission/

[zoogs]

Thanks! Alright, let's hug it out, guys

 

In 1838, two priests who served as president of the university orchestrated the sale of 272 people to pay off debts at the school. The slaves were sent from Maryland to plantations in Louisiana.

 

The university says it will give descendants of those slaves “the same consideration we give members of the Georgetown community” when they apply.

Wow -- I didn't know that about Georgetown's history. This seems like a debt a long time in the paying. Treating some of these people's descendants as legacies seems like a limited and belated, but fair approach.

 

Now these can be *really* complicated issues. Everything is always simpler *without* having a national history of slavery to consider. Unfortunately, and without meaning to demonize the founding fathers exactly, we didn't get much say in that matter.