All Hail Herbie

Still breathing. I just hope those that have all of their hopes for the future of the program tied to Coach Frost are prepared for an assessment at the end of Year 5. Good man, great program ambassador, terrific former player, and likely a good Non-Power 5 Head Coach.

Point well taken so let's assess. As you correctly point out, Coach Klieman has 12 wins in 2 seasons compared to 12 wins in 3 seasons for Coach Frost. Coach Klieman has 1 Bowl appearance in 2 seasons compared to 0 in 3 seasons for Coach Frost. Coach Klieman has 2 Top 10 wins (both OU) in 2 seasons compared to 0 for Coach Frost in 3 seasons. Coach Klieman's best conference finish was 3rd and Coach Frost's best finish was a 5th Place Division finish. Any reasonable person would conclude that K-State is pacing ahead of NU in terms of progress under new regimes. Moreover, I could argue that K-State is getting better value right now as Coach Klieman is being compensated at 50% of Coach Frost's salary.

There is no disagreement about Coach Frost's desire to find success. The question is whether he actually will make us competitive again. Following 3 poor seasons, the trajectory is not good at this moment. In terms of your last point, I think an ultimatum is extreme. That said, should we at least entertain some expectations as we enter Year 4? A resounding yes! Perhaps far fewer penalties, far fewer turnovers, no jump snaps, and better reads by the QB. All of these issues are correctable, and are the responsibility of the coaching staff. If we are playing "clean" football, the games will get more competitive and we will win our share of those closer games. Amazing that a team like Kansas State, with far less tradition, far fewer resources, and far less talent can play much "cleaner" football and outpace us in wins the last 4 years (25 vs.16), bowl appearances (2 vs. 0) and significant wins (OU Twice).

No special teams needed. At Oregon, they scored 80 with 10, 2-point conversions.

Did Moos take a cue from the players involved in Pro Day? They threw some extra weight around in front of the scouts.

Given the Pro Day results, is anyone concerned about our strength staff taking a promotion and moving on to OSU or Clemson?

We entered this league to compete against the upper echelon. 6 games against OSU in 6 years may seem daunting, but so too were 6 games in 6 years against OU in the 1980's. OSU schedules Nebraska every season for two reasons; 1.) NU still represents an attractive brand, albeit one they can use as a tune up for real competition in the Big Ten East and 2.) OSU is working to prevent a budding rivalry between Michigan and NU. Despite beating Michigan for nearly a decade straight, OSU still harbors a major inferiority complex. The last thing they want is an interloper in NU to start a budding rivalry with Michigan. "The Game" must be protected at all costs.

Is this topic intended to be a forecast for the season ahead, or merely an appraisal of our current level of experience? Like so many topics, I think it was weighted to the former while acknowledging the latter. The reason: to yet again lower expectations and explain poor results. A decision was made early on to actively purge the roster in order to improve competition and culture. If we accept that this was the strategy, than should we not also hold those accountable for the results of that decision? Claiming inexperience as we enter Year 4 does not hold water any longer. Let's allow the results to speak for themselves without condition. If we are a 0.500 team this year, then that is on the staff, not lack of player experience.

How do Coach Saban's SP+ championship seasons compare to Coach Osborne's SP+ championship seasons? Were our SP+ statistics better? I know this factor will definitely alter my opinion of our '94 / '95 / '97 seasons.

My point was that in the context of this coaching staff's prospects, it may soon be a footnote. If 2021 and 2022 are both sub-0.500 seasons, this staff will be on their way out the door. Whether OU and their fanbase throw this at us in 2029 & 2030 is irrelevant to me. If we are a Top 10 program again in 2029 / 2030, this incident may be nothing more than a muse to our fanbase. In fact, I will probably find humor in it at that point.

Agreed and of course he was involved. That said, in 20 months, this whole episode may be nothing more than a footnote in history.

He should have consulted Lyle Alzado on that point.

Thank you and completely agree. Realism always trumps idealism in my opinion. Posting these videos does nothing but set unrealistic expectations for fans. Let's refrain from re-posting training videos until we actually have a winning product on the field. It is like watching Tony Mandarich at the NFL combine in 1989. For millenials and Gen Z, please Google the name now.

If we have an SP+ ranking of 25 or better, does the record really matter? In fact, bowls should tie their invitations to SP+ rankings. While my comments are dripping with sarcasm, it illustrates how far we have fallen as a program. I think 5-7 is a great season right now. However, I think a 5-7 season means that Year 5 is make or break for Coach Frost. We should all prepare to wish him well with future endeavors should this be the record this season.

Thanks for posting the video. Very impressive in Winter Conditioning. Will this translate into production in September? Based on the video, I presume we should anticipate more than 6 catches against OU, right?

Great enthusiasm. However, let's start with fewer than 40 holding penalties by our offensive line for the season. An additional layer could be reducing the number of cumulative turnovers by 10+ this season. No bowl or Big Ten Division Championship necessary. We can give our Head Coach a bonus for hitting these two marks for the season. Additionally, and for those that love SP+ rankings, we could offer a bonus for an SP+ ranking of 25 or better. For this feat, we could offer an automatic 5 year contract extension. Again, no bowl or division crown is necessary. We can make it a race to the bottom in terms of standards...

Thanks KC. I am trying to be diplomatic and keep the peace within the various factions. That said, I lean your direction on this forecast. I just want us to get back to sustained program success and reaching a point where we can train our eye on external rivals once more. We have been a circular firing squad as a fan base for nearly 20 years now.

Are we actually concerned about staff departures from the machine that is NU football these days? The 4 win seasons are generating quite a bit of national coaching buzz amongst those programs with job openings. With another sub-500 year possible on the horizon, the only staff departures set to occur will be those that result from termination.

The new reality of college football, off-season free agent acquisition. This would then make sense. With payment to players coming soon, we will soon need salary cap managers, luxury taxes and a collective bargaining agreement. Sounds like amateurism to me.

To my earlier point, while I cannot identify a "worst" loss from this time period, I agree that the collapse at Folsom in 2019 was a watershed moment as I really began to doubt the program's direction after. CU was lifeless for 3 Quarters with a new Coach, and still they managed to completely turn the game on us in Q4. They went on to win 5 games that season. I will say that if CU 2019 was the beginning of doubt as to the current direction, Illinois 2020 was the confirming event.

While the objective of this thread is to subjectively identify the single worst loss since 2015, I find the task difficult. I say this as I have set the bar so low in terms of game expectations that the term "worst" has little meaning. With such low expectations, I find that I am bailing on games often times in the first quarter so that any loss is now nothing more than a stat sheet that I review the next day. The good news is that the weekends are far more enjoyable. For those who have not tried it, I would recommend opting for stat and highlight review on Sunday in lieu of game watching on Saturday. The yard has never looked better and who knows, perhaps they will surprise us with 6 wins this year!

Debatable, but perhaps. A 46 point loss to Michigan in 2018 or an 18 point loss to a poor Illinois team in 2020 are nothing to write home about either. Not to mention one of the great embarrassments in coaching when the Illinois punter walked 30 yards for a first down in last year's game. Agree that is was a steep drop, however have we actually come off the bottom? Not sure we ever rebounded.

My prior assessment of comments was based on what I see to be a general program portrayal by many these days (not a specific comment). That whatever our shortcomings on the field are, they are simply outside of our control and that they are permanent and structural (not circumstantial). With the ongoing personnel attrition issues, one could make the argument that we will remain inexperienced in years to come. My greatest concern is that we now tolerate failure in terms of our on-field performance and then rationalize it through various lines of argument (lack of experience, staff turnover, recruiting, personnel departures, etc.) So long as our fanbase agrees that 5 years is adequate to measure whether or not the path we are on is the correct one, I can accept that. In the short-term however, let's avoid rationalizing underperformance.

Never would I expect the sort of results you are describing after the 4 year run we have just endured. A great season now in Lincoln would be 6-6 and a trip to Boise for New Year's. Incidentally, I sadly do not even expect this in Year 4. As I said, let's look at overall progress and measure. I will take 2 games in a row absent a turnover, or 2 consecutive games with fewer than 5 penalties. That is progress to me. Whether we win 37% of the time or 33% of the time against conference foes is mere fodder for discussion. Your opening is a fine defense of mitigating circumstances as again, we are portrayed as a shorthanded, under-resourced program in comparison to the Northwestern's and Clemson's of the world. We are not devoid of talent, light on resources, or scarce of facilities. Let's challenge the status quo thinking we have developed as a fan base, not accept it.