700 billion bailout?!?!?!

[SOCALHUSKER]

So you're real issue is fiat currency. Which has something to do with the rescue plan, but really isn't central to it.

 

So what's your solution? Go back to gold and other backed currency? How do we do that? What about representative money? Money backed by things like crops, livestock, etc..

 

My point is that Paul and the ones that follow him, quite religiously, have these seemingly great ideas with near no implementation plan. None that I've seen anyway.

 

For example I understand that Paullites basically think the Federal Reserve is the devil. So, how do you propose that you dispose of the Federal Reserve? How exactly do we go back to the way things were in 1912, before the Reserve was established? Do we just fire everyone and tear down a building?

 

Of course I am being a little facetious, but really, how do we go back to the days of our founding fathers? The more i read about this idea, the more I picture myself owning a farm and some oxen. I guess I don't get it.

 

I'm all for third parties and all that. It's just that none of them have ever really been able to break through for one reason or another.

 

The fiat currency and the Federal Reserve have everything to do with this plan. Everybody's so focused on these mortgage-backed securities and the foreclosures that they fail to realize the Federal Reserve is the cause of them. By artificially lowering interest rates, the Fed encouraged the malinvestment in the securities and the awarding of the loans to people who shouldn't have received them to begin with. Those who screwed up should be held responsible, not you and I. Theft is theft no matter what they want to call it.

 

You're right though, you can't close the Federal Reserve overnight but you can cut back control, require them to report to Congress and slowly ease back to a more sound monetary policy. I really don't know anything about "representative currency" to have an opinion one way or another, but I do think that if something has value and someone else is willing to except it in exchange for a product they should have every right ? That's pretty much barter isn't it? I think you do need to look at the gold standard, since it has been one of the only currencies to withstand the test of time, but I also don't know enough about it to say how efficient it would be in our case.

 

As far as other solutions to get our country back on the right track, we need to start in Congress where we can make a difference. We elect them for the sole purpose of looking out for our best interest and if they can't or won't do that, they need to be replaced. We have been spending out of control and living beyond our means for a very long time. It's time to reel in the spending, put more money back in the pockets of the working Americans, and as the market grows the economy will follow.

 

Here's a few things that can be done to improve our way of life and restore freedom to America. I'm afraid the days of plowing the field with oxen are long gone, sorry!!

 

1.) Cut Taxes and Curb Regulation - If we really want to stimulate businesses and revive the market, we need to cut corporate and capital gains taxes, spurring investors to come back to the market and making it easier to attract new workers and clients. It is also time to end failed legislation like Sarbanes-Oxley, which has crippled capital markets, diminished our competitiveness, and greatly harmed small businesses.

 

2.) Reduce Spending - We must freeze all non-entitlement spending by the federal government at current levels and eliminate wasteful spending both domestically and in our trillion-dollar overseas budget. Our debt has to come down, and it won't until we start living within our means.

 

3.) Reform the Monetary System - If we are to have long-term economic progress, we must end the system of printing money out of thin air. The current laws limiting the circulation of gold and silver-backed currency must be overturned. We can no longer base our money on the empty promises of bureaucrats that it is sound.

 

4.) Follow the Constitution - Every problem we face as a country, doesn't matter when, today or tomorrow, it has already been seen in history. The founders took many into consideration when they wrote this wonderful document. If you haven't read it, read it!! Make sure our elected officials follow it.

[BIGREDFAN_in_OMAHA]

So the financial system is in a pretty bad way.

 

You can point fingers all you like and it won't fix anything. What we have is a couple of capable men (Ben Bernanke, the Great Depression scholar and Frankenst, er, Henry Paulson) working in a somewhat unlikely partnership to figure out a way to get us out of this mess.

 

And you have President Bush who, for all the stupid things he's done, recognizes the nature of the emergency and is supporting a plan that flies in the face of his party platform.

 

Then, of course, you have the Republicans in Congress suddenly turning coat and trying to block the deal for what essentially amounts to partisanship. See, they are upset because they think the Democrats are pushing the deal before McCain gets to arrive on the scene and take some credit for it to use in his campaign.

 

Who cares about the economy, right, as long as your party wins?

 

For the general public, the numbers are being thrown about and they're on a scale that's hard to comprehend. 700bn. But IMO, you can be as outraged as you like about it, but you can't admit that we aren't in financial crisis. So: anybody got a better plan? There are a few people working desperately to salvage the economy, and I think it's really foolish to dismiss it just based on your emotional reaction to the sound of "700 billion dollars." Bernanke's goals aren't political. This isn't right-wing economics, it's necessity given where we are.

 

I'll say this, I don't like the idea of all those Wall St. executives walking away fat, rich and scot-free. More than that though, I don't like the idea of people still thinking in terms of parties and presidential election. At some point you put that partisan garbage aside, which even Mr. Bush has been able to do. It amazes me that some of the people we've put in Congress are thinking more about advancing party interests over those of the nation.

 

The great Warren Buffet supports the bailout. It is strange however that the author of this article appears to twist his words in both the headline and body of the article: link

 

Where are the words are twisted? (just wondering)

 

I think Buffett nailed it: the ball's in Congress's court. They have the power to do something, and they're wavering indecisively. I think we deserve better out of our Congress. We seriously deserve better, and a good number of these people probably don't deserve to hold their office. What kind of imbeciles have we been putting in place to run our country?

Buffet said "Heaven help us" in regards to if Congress doesn't get involved. The author atributed it to appear Buffet said it in response to a failed bailout. Then in the body the author mentions a "failed rescue attempt" but that is not what Buffet said.

[zoogs]

^ Ah, I see, thanks for clearing that up.

[SOCALHUSKER]

Peter Schiff, who also happened to be Ron Paul's economic advisor, appeared on Fox News’ “Bulls and Bears” on December 16, 2006, and warned about the future of the economy. Playing fast and loose with money and endlessly borrowing would come back to haunt us, he said.

 

He was overwhelmingly laughed at for his assertions. “Our housing market is great!”, they proclaimed, fighting through fits of giggling.

 

I would ask the clichéd question, ‘Who’s laughing now?”, but the sad fact is that no one is laughing about the economy anymore. Almost makes me sick.

 

[SOCALHUSKER]

Here's a few good videos. One with something to say about everybody's favorite Husker fan, Warren Buffet. Plus a little bonus footage!!!

 

This dude his been talking about this forever, why weren't we listening???

 

 

Ron Paul on Warren Buffet's stance

 

9/25/2008 Ron Paul on Your World with Neil Cavuto

[SOCALHUSKER]

So you're real issue is fiat currency. Which has something to do with the rescue plan, but really isn't central to it.

 

So what's your solution? Go back to gold and other backed currency? How do we do that? What about representative money? Money backed by things like crops, livestock, etc..

 

My point is that Paul and the ones that follow him, quite religiously, have these seemingly great ideas with near no implementation plan. None that I've seen anyway.

 

For example I understand that Paullites basically think the Federal Reserve is the devil. So, how do you propose that you dispose of the Federal Reserve? How exactly do we go back to the way things were in 1912, before the Reserve was established? Do we just fire everyone and tear down a building?

 

Of course I am being a little facetious, but really, how do we go back to the days of our founding fathers? The more i read about this idea, the more I picture myself owning a farm and some oxen. I guess I don't get it.

 

I'm all for third parties and all that. It's just that none of them have ever really been able to break through for one reason or another.

 

Hey DaveH,

 

I actually couldn't sleep much last night contemplating why I couldn't fully answer many of the questions you brought up in your post (I was also thinking about beating Va Tech and how good that will be). Anyways, the main one you stressed was the implementation of the many ideas and changes Ron Paul and his supporters, myself included, all seem so adamant on bringing to the table. Yes, limited government, a restoration of personal liberties, lower taxes, free trade principles and a government that works for the people all sound good in theory but how do we know that would work and what would our society be like with them in place? The truth is we don't know and possibly won't ever know!!

 

Why put so much blind faith in a theory you might say? All one has to do is look at the other options being crammed down our throats to know what doesn't work. We've all seen the implementation and crisis resulting from big government, out-of-control-spending, runaway inflation, central planning economics, fiat currency, loss of personal liberties and the socializion and nationalization of programs. History is saturated with nations, empires, and leaders who have tried to manipulate the market and the people, all have failed and failed miserably. Germany, Russia, and even Rome all felt the repurcussions of an expanded government and a society that tried to control beyond what man is capable of controlling. Men need to prove they are capable of taking care of themselves before they decide to tackle ruling others and the market. Why not give the free markets and personal liberties a shot? Like you said, what's the worst that can happen, you end up owning a farm, plowing the field with oxen, HA HA!?!

 

Seriously though, I would like to pose a question to you. Can you name any nation that has left the market and the people to work for itself, and failed? The answer is no because it has never happened. The founders knew this and that is one of the very reasons they stressed limited government and individual liberties. Yes, the ideas of personal responsibility, freedom from oppression, and a true free market can be frightening but contrary to what the government would have you believe, they are better than the alternative.

[Pedro Guerrero]

If I close my eyes will this all go away?

 

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go get my wife knocked up, divorce her but still stay with her, lose my job, have another baby while waiting for my next one, have her lose her job, so I can get help from the government.

 

 

Unless you are rich or poor this country does not give a rats ass about you. Just hurry up and raise my taxes and bail those fat hogs out so I can move on with my life........................................................oh wait I'm just going to close my eyes and pretend this isn't happening.

[DaveH]

I think it's necessary. This is what could probably what will happen if the market is allowed to collapse:

 

Lending will dry up. In my opinion, this is the biggest problem. I am not saying that you won't be able to get a loan for your latest car you don't need. I am talking about business lending. Businesses don't usually have a steady stream of income like you and I do. In order to fill the gaps, they take out loans to cover expenses and things like payroll.

 

 

 

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/econo...sion=2008092811

[husker rob]

I think it's necessary. This is what could probably what will happen if the market is allowed to collapse:

 

Lending will dry up. In my opinion, this is the biggest problem. I am not saying that you won't be able to get a loan for your latest car you don't need. I am talking about business lending. Businesses don't usually have a steady stream of income like you and I do. In order to fill the gaps, they take out loans to cover expenses and things like payroll.

 

 

 

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/econo...sion=2008092811

replying to your own posts is TEH Awesome!!!!11!! and sw33t

[bennychico11]

bailout not approved

[BIGREDIOWAN]

bailout not approved

Well, looks like they all better get back together and earn their f-ing paychecks and save this economy in some way! This was a stupid a$$ed idea IMO anyways and there has to be a better way to fix some of these problems. Do I have an idea, no, but I'm also not in congress and I'm not paid to worry about this crap. Damnit my student loans kick in, in October as well, so on top of everything costing an a$$load I'm going to have to fork over $250.00 a month for the next 10 years. Maybe I should get my Master's so it's all deferred for that much longer.

[strigori]

And by not going with the bailout, the stock market lost what amounts to $1.1 Trillion. The no voters clearly dont understand what the issues are. Unless the credit system gets a fix asap, the whole economy could implode.

[BigRedPowerWagon]

Yea im kinda getting screwed here. I am in the process of looking for a house and with the way the economy is acting, my bank says no loans for right now. And i dont have perfect credit either so i bet even if im able to get a loan its like 12 percent interest or something like that. I hope someone has a fix for this because i have no idea.

[dizzturbedNUfan]

And by not going with the bailout, the stock market lost what amounts to $1.1 Trillion. The no voters clearly dont understand what the issues are. Unless the credit system gets a fix asap, the whole economy could implode.

 

Good, I still beleive this country would come out of a bad recession in much better shape then we will with this stupid plan.

 

I agree with NewEarth, The rich keep getting richer, The poor keep getting freebe's and us middle income, stress'n to support a family keep getting screwed.

 

By all means let's give a bunch of CEO's that pay themselves 1.5 million a year an easy way out.

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I've heard it from my dad a million times and I'll say it here. Without the middle class this country would be screwed!