Mandel's evaluation

[robsker]

From another board:

 

Stuart Mandel lists NU, nationally, as the biggest disappointment re: recruiting.

 

Biggest disappointment (in general): Nebraska. You know the formula: Hot-young coach takes over at tradition-rich program and puts together a monster class in his first full recruiting year. In fact, it happened the last time the Huskers changed coaches -- Bill Callahan landed a top five class in 2005.

 

However, that wasn't quite the case for Bo Pelini, whose first full class was solid (top 30) but hardly spectacular. The lone "star" is QB Cody Green (Dayton, Texas) -- and even he was ranked just 173rd by Rivals.

 

****************

 

I tend to agree with mandel --- this class is, at least on paper at this point, somewhat disappointing. It could be better in reality than is the ranking that people give now --- but, of course, no one knows at this point if that is the case. But... I was expecting a top 15 class, maybe even a fringe top 10. But really, NU was not close. We had the best ranking in the B12 North but fifth overall in the conference. On that basis, probably not a highly accurate basis, but on that basis alone, we are not catching up with the conference in general (but did fare better than our brethren in the B12 North). It seems to me that NU must really step up recruiting next year (and that will be tough with so few scholarships to offer) so as not to fall further behind.

 

I know. I know. Stars are not everything. I agree. And talent alone is not everything. but... such is a real measure and is a contributor. And I expected better at this point. NU in the future must get 3-4 National top 100 and 6-7 national top 200 players per year, or the talent gap will be going the wrong way (relative to the top programs).

 

Thoughts?

[Husker_x]

I think everyone should quit stargazing. As Bo says--repeatedly--we won't know what we have for a few years. The best teams in that nation are not necessarily composites of the best players. There's so much more to football than forty times and squat numbers. Bo has won wherever he's gone. After one full season he has 9 wins and a new years day bowl victory. Give it time, my friend. When the wins start amassing the talent--stars or not--will be coming here. In the meantime, I trust Bo's ability to develop what we have, and I'm happy with the group he's brought in.

 

We have to constantly keep in mind that recruiting is a speculator's game. Once these redshirts from the 08 class come off, we'll finally see how good a talent scout Bo really is.

[zoogs]

Mandel usually has more sense than that. That was a case of complete, total stargazing. That analysis barely scratched the surface. C'mon, you can do better than that, Stew.

 

Yes, it was not an outstanding class worthy of national attention, but it's hardly a disappointment.

[rawhide-jr]

I'm not surprised to see Pelini getting bashed... It's what the media used to do to Osborne...

 

We got the guys to fit in OUR system, not anyone else's. Looks to me like we got quite a few studs, too... Pelini likes to develop players his way, and not take the ones who are done, or act like they don't need coaching... How many 5-star classes did Osborne have? Not too many. He wanted tough, athletic players with heart.

[Husker_x]

Mandel usually has more sense than that. That was a case of complete, total stargazing. That analysis barely scratched the surface. C'mon, you can do better than that, Stew.

 

Yesit was not an outstanding class worthy of national attention, but it's hardly a disappointment.

 

My question is, what class is? If we can all shovel aside the bullsh#t that is recruiting hype, I find it hard for myself personally to get up or down about a particular class. Yeah, it's always exciting to dream, but I mean, honestly, we won't know diddly about this class for a couple of years. And what about some of Charlie Weiss' classes the past few years? Those guys should be in the NC every year based upon their schedule and so-called 'talent.' I think development is fifteen times as important as high school-level ability. In this case either rivals rankings are crap to begin with, or they don't matter at the college level. Either way, we're pretty well in the dark about how good or bad a class is until we actually see them produce, and therefore there's no reason to be disappointed yet.

[Ohio Pete]

From another board:

 

Stuart Mandel lists NU, nationally, as the biggest disappointment re: recruiting.

 

Biggest disappointment (in general): Nebraska. You know the formula: Hot-young coach takes over at tradition-rich program and puts together a monster class in his first full recruiting year. In fact, it happened the last time the Huskers changed coaches -- Bill Callahan landed a top five class in 2005.

 

However, that wasn't quite the case for Bo Pelini, whose first full class was solid (top 30) but hardly spectacular. The lone "star" is QB Cody Green (Dayton, Texas) -- and even he was ranked just 173rd by Rivals.

Mandel missed the mark here. The class is not as good as we'd like, but not because of some stupid formula. The reason there is this monster class formula is the coach is coming into a situation where there is no talent, and he is implementing a new system where every recruit has a great chance of starting. Oh and he has a terrible first year on the field (You know. Where it actually matters.) because all of the previous guys suck. (See Michigan and their barely Top 15 class.)

 

Nebraska had none of these factors (and it doesn't help that they aren't a high profile program in the minds of today's recruits.) There was no significant talent gap (only a coaching gap). No need to promise guys starting positions to get them to come because it simply wasn't going to be true. No change to the offensive scheme requiring ridiculous offers to overrated QBs. No mass influx of JUCOs required.

[Huskergod Killer]

If the 2008 and 2009 recruiting class don't win a Big 12 Championship,then it will be a big Disappointment.

[Huskergod Killer]

From another board:

 

Nebraska had none of these factors (and it doesn't help that they aren't a high profile program in the minds of today's recruits.) There was no significant talent gap (only a coaching gap). No need to promise guys starting positions to get them to come because it simply wasn't going to be true. No change to the offensive scheme requiring ridiculous offers to overrated QBs. No mass influx of JUCOs required.

 

 

No significant talent gap? Between who?NU and Iowa St?

 

NU wants to compete with Texas and OU and there was a very significant talent gap.When that gap narrows{and I hope this staff is up to it.}NU will battle for Big 12 Championships.

[glm09]

From another board:

 

Stuart Mandel lists NU, nationally, as the biggest disappointment re: recruiting.

 

Biggest disappointment (in general): Nebraska. You know the formula: Hot-young coach takes over at tradition-rich program and puts together a monster class in his first full recruiting year. In fact, it happened the last time the Huskers changed coaches -- Bill Callahan landed a top five class in 2005.

 

However, that wasn't quite the case for Bo Pelini, whose first full class was solid (top 30) but hardly spectacular. The lone "star" is QB Cody Green (Dayton, Texas) -- and even he was ranked just 173rd by Rivals.

Mandel missed the mark here. The class is not as good as we'd like, but not because of some stupid formula. The reason there is this monster class formula is the coach is coming into a situation where there is no talent, and he is implementing a new system where every recruit has a great chance of starting. Oh and he has a terrible first year on the field (You know. Where it actually matters.) because all of the previous guys suck. (See Michigan and their barely Top 15 class.)

 

Nebraska had none of these factors (and it doesn't help that they aren't a high profile program in the minds of today's recruits.) There was no significant talent gap (only a coaching gap). No need to promise guys starting positions to get them to come because it simply wasn't going to be true. No change to the offensive scheme requiring ridiculous offers to overrated QBs. No mass influx of JUCOs required.

 

 

I think you are right... Think about some of the comments from players this year. The first one that comes to mind is Suh. he is quoted saying that one of the main reasons he wants to come back is for all that he will learn under another year with this coaching staff.

 

That didn't happen before. Last year's (2007) team had more talent than this year's team, and Pelini was second in the big 12 in defense vs last the year before. No one can claim that had anything to do with an influx of talent.

[skywalker]

I dont think many realize how far our program has fallen as far as national perception. It's easy to see here the vast improvement since pelini was hired. But our record this year was "okay" and we had one signiture win in clemson...who was a big disapointment this year. It's not an overnight fix although we all know we are better than the nation thinks. So basically recruits dont know how good we are and all we can do is show them. National perception is our worst enemy in recruiting right now...and only wins can change that. I expect a much better year recruiting next year.

 

And by the way...we lost like 20 some games straight against top 20 teams over the last couple years....

[BiggerRed]

You have to also take into account that Bo and his staff had a lot to do this year. They didn't know the players on the team, they had a culture to change, they had schemes to implement and a playbook to develop, etc.. I don't know how much time this took away from recruiting and I'm not sure how much difference it would have made in our class, but it is certainly something to keep in mind.

 

Also, I didn't expect Bo to bring in a top class this year. According to everything I have read, the man doesn't pressure visitors to verbal, he doesn't promise playing time, and he doesn't feed NFL aspirations. Bo is building a recruiting base to build upon. Hopefully we will reap these benefits in future classes. For now, I'm not going to get too worked up about our class "not being good enough" on paper.

[robsker]

I dont think many realize how far our program has fallen as far as national perception. It's easy to see here the vast improvement since pelini was hired. But our record this year was "okay" and we had one signiture win in clemson...who was a big disapointment this year. It's not an overnight fix although we all know we are better than the nation thinks. So basically recruits dont know how good we are and all we can do is show them. National perception is our worst enemy in recruiting right now...and only wins can change that. I expect a much better year recruiting next year.

 

And by the way...we lost like 20 some games straight against top 20 teams over the last couple years....

 

 

Your post is by far the closest to the reality in explaining where NU is in recruiting. To the rest of the nation NU is a mid-level program with, if they are old enough to know this, a great past. But generally speaking, most recruits, if they were to list the top 20 programs, would not even give NU a thought. Their collective memories are from basically about 2000 or more recent. Since that time NU has been noncompetitive and, as you say, are one of something like a half dozen or fewer teams that has not defeated a single ranked team.

 

The comment that Clemson was a signature win is little tough to accept --- I like Clemson, their fans, and think Clemson has potential to go places and respect them as a school --- but they were unranked and could not possibly, on that basis alone, be a signature win. A signature win is against a top 10 or top 5 type team. Our last signature win was against Oklahoma with the trick pass from the left-handed ex-QB (forgot his name) to Eric Crouch --- what year was that? A year too remote for recruits to know about.

 

You are right, NU needs at least one, and likely two, 10 win seasons (over-achieving seasons getting the most out of the limited athletes NU has) and at least 1 signature win each season --- and maybe a B12 Championship before people go --- hey, NU is pretty good. The problem is, with the talent gap between NU and the elite programs, is it reasonable to perform that well w/o getting in some real talent?

 

Here is to overachieving.

[GlobalHusker]

From LJS:

Husker reviews mixed

By BRIAN CHRISTOPHERSON / Lincoln Journal Star

 

"It’s worth noting that the 2005 class Mandel mentions averaged 3.33 stars per player, according to Rivals.com. The 2009 Husker class is not far behind in that category, averaging 3.25 stars per player, but had nine less players. The 2005 class also had 11 players with four stars and two with five stars (Marlon Lucky and Zackary Bowman). The current class has five four-star players and none with five stars, according to Rivals."

 

Interesting that we're not that far off based on the average of ranking of the class/players. Then again, we're not gonna win the BCS next year, are we?!?!

 

Agreed...10 win seasons will help the new generation recognize NU.

[Ohio Pete]

From LJS:

Husker reviews mixed

By BRIAN CHRISTOPHERSON / Lincoln Journal Star

 

"It’s worth noting that the 2005 class Mandel mentions averaged 3.33 stars per player, according to Rivals.com. The 2009 Husker class is not far behind in that category, averaging 3.25 stars per player, but had nine less players. The 2005 class also had 11 players with four stars and two with five stars (Marlon Lucky and Zackary Bowman). The current class has five four-star players and none with five stars, according to Rivals."

 

Interesting that we're not that far off based on the average of ranking of the class/players. Then again, we're not gonna win the BCS next year, are we?!?!

 

Agreed...10 win seasons will help the new generation recognize NU.

That 2005 class was almost 1/2 JUCOs.

[skersfan]

I agree that talent some times develops later, and you have to be in the right place at the right time to get the ranking that some kids get.

 

But what concerns me, is that we did not out recruit one single power house, well maybe LSU once. The rest of the time we lost kids to the major powers and to some that are not at that level yet. Most of the top recruits in the country did not even consider us. That is nothing unusual, other than when BC was here.

 

I think the kids now think we are a program without an identity. Nothing proven on the field for quite awhile. Not a stellar defense. Not an amazing offense or renowned coaches. We have not beaten a top 15 ranked team in going on ten years. Something has to change on wins and losses and recruiting.

 

Wins will cure the problem, but I still see us falling farther and farther behind the major players. I hope Bo can change that in the future. We are not the old Nebraska.

 

You can not win without recruiting well every year. I see it as a disappointing class to.