Quarterback Competiton!

[Hujan]

Question: How good would Carnes have to be in order to be better for us than Martinez post-Mizzou?

 

Answer: Not very.

 

Do you get it now, Dude?

 

You all seem to believe Martinez will magically be better once his ankle heals. I say:

 

1) That is as shaky an assumption as the assumption that Carnes will be good; AND

 

2) There is ample reason to believe that his ankle problem ain't exactly in the rearview.

I feel like I have said this far too many times now and am just getting redundant, but here it goes anyways.

 

The truth of the matter is that when Martinez' ankle is healthy he has shown he can be successful. He had two hiccup games prior to his injury, but the guy was a redshirt freshman. He didn't perform well against Texas, but you might remember that the team itself (especially the wide receivers) did not perform well against Texas.

 

Martinez may never be 100% healthy. There is evidence to suggest the ankle problem isn't over and done with. No disagreement there.

 

All of this said, what exactly are you/we arguing at this point? You just said that believing Martinez' ankle is healthy is as shaky an assumption as believing Carnes will be a good quarterback. So are you now arguing we have no good quarterback choice? I'm confused as to why this keeps going in circles.

 

Whoever starts is the guy I support - cut and dry. I don't care if it's the bum-ankle Martinez, unproven Carnes or what-happened-to-this-guy Green.

 

Essentially, yes, I am saying that our options at QB are not very bright at this point. Martinez is, to me, very unreliable. I say that primarily because of his ankle, but count me in the minority of people who think that the Martinez we saw in the early part of last season was NEVER going to come back, ankle injury or not. The kid had some sensational speed that caught a lot of teams by surprise. I honestly don't think you'll ever see a K State-like performance out of Martinez ever again.

 

I say this not because it brings me joy, but because it might help you all appreciate why I (and others like me) are somewhat excited about Carnes. I agree that Carnes has shown us absolutely nothing that merits him overtaking early 2010 Martinez. Problem is, for a variety of reasons, I don't think you'll ever see early 2010 Martinez ever again. You are going to have something closer to the garbage we saw against Texas, SDSU, Kansas, A&M, Oklahoma, and Washington. If so, everything we've seen from Carnes has shown us that he has the potential to be better than a late-season Martinez.

 

So my whole point is to explain why my enthusiasm in Martinez is tempered and my appreciation for Carnes is growing. But you have no argument from me that the best man for the job should start. I just have deep reservations about whether Martinez really is that guy.

 

If you or anyone else objects to me expressing that opinion, I'll remind that you have wandered into a thread entitled, "Quarterback Competition!"

[Enhance]

Essentially, yes, I am saying that our options at QB are not very bright at this point. Martinez is, to me, very unreliable. I say that primarily because of his ankle, but count me in the minority of people who think that the Martinez we saw in the early part of last season was NEVER going to come back, ankle injury or not. The kid had some sensational speed that caught a lot of teams by surprise. I honestly don't think you'll ever see a K State-like performance out of Martinez ever again.

 

I say this not because it brings me joy, but because it might help you all appreciate why I (and others like me) are somewhat excited about Carnes. I agree that Carnes has shown us absolutely nothing that merits him overtaking early 2010 Martinez. Problem is, for a variety of reasons, I don't think you'll ever see early 2010 Martinez ever again. You are going to have something closer to the garbage we saw against Texas, SDSU, Kansas, A&M, Oklahoma, and Washington. If so, everything we've seen from Carnes has shown us that he has the potential to be better than a late-season Martinez.

 

So my whole point is to explain why my enthusiasm in Martinez is tempered and my appreciation for Carnes is growing. But you have no argument from me that the best man for the job should start. I just have deep reservations about whether Martinez really is that guy.

 

If you or anyone else objects to me expressing that opinion, I'll remind that you have wandered into a thread entitled, "Quarterback Competition!"

I understand your reservations and you have valid reasons to back them up.

 

I will say this. First, our quarterback situation isn't exactly bright but there is a lot of potential there. A returning starter is always a good thing even if he might lose the job. We have an untested but obviously athletic freshman in Carnes and then we have Green who, despite his consistent problems, still brings experience to the table. We agree on this much I think.

 

Second, Martinez has more questions about him than any other player we've had here in the last few years. His leadership skills, personality and ability to recover have all been drawn into question. That said, of those six games you mentioned above, four of them included his injury. SDSU has no excuses, but I will say that Texas was a team failure and should not be considered a loss as a result of Martinez.

 

Does this mean I think a healthy Martinez is the answer? No. I'm just as inquisitive about him as you are. It's tough to have faith in a guy when there are so many questions swirling around him.

 

My only point is pure and simple. Whoever starts has my full support. If Martinez starts and it's clear he's not who we need, I'm all for Green or Carnes being the starter if that's what the coaches feel is necessary. I have my reservations about Martinez just like you, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until there is hard evidence to suggest otherwise (i.e. another complete offensive blunder on his part early in the season).

[knapplc]

SDSU has no excuses, but I will say that Texas was a team failure and should not be considered a loss as a result of Martinez.

 

SDSU was a team failure as well. Martinez had an awful game, sure, but it wasn't like the O Line was blocking anyone, and our DEF was frequently bending against a MUCH weaker opponent. The blame for SDSU starts at Pelini and ends at the Water Boy, and everyone in between needs to take a share.

[Hujan]

Enhance,

 

I agree with virtually everything you said.

 

[Saunders]

Essentially, yes, I am saying that our options at QB are not very bright at this point. Martinez is, to me, very unreliable. I say that primarily because of his ankle, but count me in the minority of people who think that the Martinez we saw in the early part of last season was NEVER going to come back, ankle injury or not. The kid had some sensational speed that caught a lot of teams by surprise. I honestly don't think you'll ever see a K State-like performance out of Martinez ever again.

 

I say this not because it brings me joy, but because it might help you all appreciate why I (and others like me) are somewhat excited about Carnes. I agree that Carnes has shown us absolutely nothing that merits him overtaking early 2010 Martinez. Problem is, for a variety of reasons, I don't think you'll ever see early 2010 Martinez ever again. You are going to have something closer to the garbage we saw against Texas, SDSU, Kansas, A&M, Oklahoma, and Washington. If so, everything we've seen from Carnes has shown us that he has the potential to be better than a late-season Martinez.

 

So my whole point is to explain why my enthusiasm in Martinez is tempered and my appreciation for Carnes is growing. But you have no argument from me that the best man for the job should start. I just have deep reservations about whether Martinez really is that guy.

 

If you or anyone else objects to me expressing that opinion, I'll remind that you have wandered into a thread entitled, "Quarterback Competition!"

I understand your reservations and you have valid reasons to back them up.

 

I will say this. First, our quarterback situation isn't exactly bright but there is a lot of potential there. A returning starter is always a good thing even if he might lose the job. We have an untested but obviously athletic freshman in Carnes and then we have Green who, despite his consistent problems, still brings experience to the table. We agree on this much I think.

 

Second, Martinez has more questions about him than any other player we've had here in the last few years. His leadership skills, personality and ability to recover have all been drawn into question. That said, of those six games you mentioned above, four of them included his injury. SDSU has no excuses, but I will say that Texas was a team failure and should not be considered a loss as a result of Martinez.

 

Does this mean I think a healthy Martinez is the answer? No. I'm just as inquisitive about him as you are. It's tough to have faith in a guy when there are so many questions swirling around him.

 

My only point is pure and simple. Whoever starts has my full support. If Martinez starts and it's clear he's not who we need, I'm all for Green or Carnes being the starter if that's what the coaches feel is necessary. I have my reservations about Martinez just like you, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until there is hard evidence to suggest otherwise (i.e. another complete offensive blunder on his part early in the season).

Pretty much my thoughts as well. However, of the bolded items, only one of those is close to being based on established facts. If Taylor recovers, he will be better than last year. If he doesn't, then it's time to look to Carnes, Green, or Kellogg.

[knapplc]

Pretty much my thoughts as well. However, of the bolded items, only one of those is close to being based on established facts. If Taylor recovers, he will be better than last year. If he doesn't, then it's time to look to Carnes, Green, or Kellogg.

 

But even that is a presumption. Players do tend to get better year after year, but it's not a given. The way this conversation has evolved over the last few months we pretty much have to speak in EXACT terms or another ten pages of rehash will erupt.

 

We're at a stalemate in this conversation until Fall Camp and the loose lips that follow it start leaking things again. Until then, there's not much more we can say.

[Enhance]

The best scenario for 2011 is a healthy Martinez running an offense that truly "fits him like a glove", and allows him to succeed.

 

As exciting/promising as Carnes is, an incumbent starter that progresses over the off season and into the season is the best case scenario. We've changed offenses three times the last three years and have changed quarterbacks every year. We haven't had a two-year-plus starter at quarterback since Zac Taylor. The more continuity we have on offense, the better the offense will be imho.

 

In a way you could say I'm pulling for Martinez, but only because I think it helps the team to finally have a guy in place commanding the huddle. That said, if somebody else proves a better fit then I'm all for it.

[nhuskers5]

All you people bashing on Martinez's throwing mechanics: you wanna know who else had awful mechanics, a guy named Tim Tebow, an I think he ended up being a fine quarterback. Machanics aren't all that important in college, as long as you can get some velocity on the ball

[bshirt]

Well, I pull for Tmart because when healthy his blinding speed is a lethal weapon that I like having on the field. There's 10,000 "game manager" qbs available that are serviceable and can be successful but they're not difference makers.

 

But as others have said, if Green, Carnes, Spano or whoever beats him out so be it!

 

GBR!!

[schuhbdoo]

All you people bashing on Martinez's throwing mechanics: you wanna know who else had awful mechanics, a guy named Tim Tebow, an I think he ended up being a fine quarterback. Machanics aren't all that important in college, as long as you can get some velocity on the ball

 

 

tim tebow was a 235 to 240 lb NFL fullback/RB playing QB. he was surrounded by great skill players too. Percy Harvin sound like a guy that can ball?

 

the word on tebow was he was flawed with his throwing motion. the has been proven to be pretty accurate.

 

comparing Martinez and Tebow is not the same. Tebow could take the pounding of the college running game, so far, Taylor has gotten really banged up in the running game.

 

Taylor's throwing motion is horrible. I have a hard time watching his mechanics. Some of it is his muscles in my opinion. I think he hits the upper body way too hard. look at the pro passers and their upper body. Manning, Brady, Montana, Young. the only guy with big time muscles is Brady Quinn and his mechanics aren't that solid. I don't know enough about mechanics to know if it is his build or not, but he needs to work on his mechanics or another QB will take his job. his stats don't look as bad as his mechanics appear on the field.

 

I have seen way to may 4 for 20's in the last few years. NU's QB's should be able to hit the open WR's/RB's but they are missed way too often.

[bshirt]

All you people bashing on Martinez's throwing mechanics: you wanna know who else had awful mechanics, a guy named Tim Tebow, an I think he ended up being a fine quarterback. Machanics aren't all that important in college, as long as you can get some velocity on the ball

 

 

tim tebow was a 235 to 240 lb NFL fullback/RB playing QB. he was surrounded by great skill players too. Percy Harvin sound like a guy that can ball?

 

the word on tebow was he was flawed with his throwing motion. the has been proven to be pretty accurate.

 

comparing Martinez and Tebow is not the same. Tebow could take the pounding of the college running game, so far, Taylor has gotten really banged up in the running game.

 

Taylor's throwing motion is horrible. I have a hard time watching his mechanics. Some of it is his muscles in my opinion. I think he hits the upper body way too hard. look at the pro passers and their upper body. Manning, Brady, Montana, Young. the only guy with big time muscles is Brady Quinn and his mechanics aren't that solid. I don't know enough about mechanics to know if it is his build or not, but he needs to work on his mechanics or another QB will take his job. his stats don't look as bad as his mechanics appear on the field.

 

I have seen way to may 4 for 20's in the last few years. NU's QB's should be able to hit the open WR's/RB's but they are missed way too often.

 

By any chance did you happen to notice how many passes are dropped too? It's not all Tmart & Lee for that.

 

But anyways, I want a "real" run-first offense. We'll find some guys who can catch passes when they're WIDE open and qbs who can get it there. If Frazier, Frost & Couch could do it Tmart & Carnes can too.

[Saunders]

Pretty much my thoughts as well. However, of the bolded items, only one of those is close to being based on established facts. If Taylor recovers, he will be better than last year. If he doesn't, then it's time to look to Carnes, Green, or Kellogg.

 

But even that is a presumption. Players do tend to get better year after year, but it's not a given. The way this conversation has evolved over the last few months we pretty much have to speak in EXACT terms or another ten pages of rehash will erupt.

 

We're at a stalemate in this conversation until Fall Camp and the loose lips that follow it start leaking things again. Until then, there's not much more we can say.

That's true, it is a presumption. But it's more likely that if he is healed, that he will get better than stay the same or get worse.