Quarterback Competiton!

[The Dude]

I'll let it go, but the bolded parts say it all, IMO. You say there is a problem with point I'm trying to make, then accuse me of assuming that Martinez's ability to make long runs is why people want Martinez.

 

I AM FREAKING TRYING TO FIND OUT IF THAT IS THE REAL REASON WHY PEOPLE WANT MARTINEZ!!! I AM TRYING TO AVOID MAKING ASSUMPTIONS. THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF MY QUESTION!!

 

And when I try to explore that, all I get is: "It's unfair to make hypotheticals." "Your question is stupid."

 

For the very reason you highlight, I think it's fair to ask guys how much weight they place on Martinez's ability to break those long runs. There is no agenda, there is no trick waiting around the bend. I am just geniunely curious.

 

As to the other points:

 

1) Yes, we all want to best guy to start. But some people have favorites that they would rather see. Even if Carnes and Martinez were both sophomores and both had a year of experience under the belt, my hypothesis is that some of you guys would be pulling for Martinez based on the allure of his running ability. So it makes me wonder how much that is true.

 

2) We are not bashing Martinez on the basis of Carnes' spring game performances. At all. The same criticisms you hear on this board you would have heard after A&M, the CCG, and the Holiday Bowl. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CARNES, and everything to do with deficiencies in Martinez's game.

 

The question is not "Is Carnes better than Martinez," the question is, "Is Martinez so lacking in the fundamental things you need to succeed as a QB that many QBs, including Carnes, would be better."

 

The reality here is that Martinez has had ZERO legitimate competition. Green and Lee were damn near worthless. Whether Carnes wins the Heisman or not, the spring game at least showed, in my mind, that he is not worthless. So then the question emerges: Although Martinez gets the nod compared to a pair of worthless QBs, does he still get the nod compared to a QB who is at least mediocre?

 

And that is the reality for a lot of Husker fans. We have so little faith in Martinez that we look to Carnes not because Carnes is god-like, but because he doesn't suck. You guys have continuously failed to grasp that subtle, but fundamental, difference.

Except you don't have clue one as to whether or not Carnes sucks. Which is why the logic of your Martinez bashing essays falls flat time and time and time again.

[knapplc]

i don't think Beck has the time or knowledge to make him better

 

What gives you that impression?

 

 

is Beck a qb coach? has he developed any qbs?

 

I'm guessing his resume as QB coach is slightly better than Ron Brown's resume as a RB coach, yet you're not posting that Brown can't get the job done.

[Hunter94]

i don't think Beck has the time or knowledge to make him better

 

What gives you that impression?

 

 

is Beck a qb coach? has he developed any qbs?

 

I'm guessing his resume as QB coach is slightly better than Ron Brown's resume as a RB coach, yet you're not posting that Brown can't get the job done.

 

really, what i am questioning is his past experience with qb mechanics and the time he will have available while installing a new offense.......i just figure TM has to get some more help and polish this summer.

[knapplc]

i don't think Beck has the time or knowledge to make him better

 

What gives you that impression?

 

 

is Beck a qb coach? has he developed any qbs?

 

I'm guessing his resume as QB coach is slightly better than Ron Brown's resume as a RB coach, yet you're not posting that Brown can't get the job done.

 

really, what i am questioning is his past experience with qb mechanics and the time he will have available while installing a new offense.......i just figure TM has to get some more help and polish this summer.

Yeah, I got that part. I just missed the part where you posted your similar concerns about Coach Brown, who has zero experiences as a RB coach and (aside from one good player) a cadre of young/underperforming/not very good players.

 

At least Beck can say he was the Co-OC at Kansas when they had some pretty solid QB play from Reesing, and he may (for all we know) have had a part in that.

 

I just continue to find it interesting what people choose to focus on.

[The Dude]

I find it funny no one even mentions Taylor had ZERO protection and receivers that couldn't get open for the CCG and Holiday Bowl. It's all on Taylor. How many QBs actually succeed under those conditions? Why are so many people convinced Carnes could, no sweat?

[huskerscott]

Who brought Ron Brown into this??????

[zoogs]

Is it that surprising that people focus on the QB position more than others?

 

Really, I am a bit concerned about Ron Brown in his transition to RBs coach. As well as our new WRs coach in his transition from high school coaching. Beck, Brown, and Fisher - I am or have recently become (in Fisher's case) big fans of all these coaches. But not for nothing is the spotlight on Beck white-hot.

 

Although I think Beck will be alright teaching QBs his verbiage. It isn't like we'll be demanding mechanical excellence out of our QBs in the future anyway, so we don't need some renowned QB guru.

 

That said, about his Kansas experience. For the same reason Jay Norvell can't really claim credit for Taylor's production in Callahan's system and show, Offensive Coordinator Tim Beck Ed Warinner can't really claim credit for Mangino's show in those days. Both Norvell and Warinner had something to do with it to be sure, but it was Mark Mangino's offense just like it is Bo Pelini's defense.

[Hunter94]

i don't think Beck has the time or knowledge to make him better

 

What gives you that impression?

 

 

is Beck a qb coach? has he developed any qbs?

 

I'm guessing his resume as QB coach is slightly better than Ron Brown's resume as a RB coach, yet you're not posting that Brown can't get the job done.

 

really, what i am questioning is his past experience with qb mechanics and the time he will have available while installing a new offense.......i just figure TM has to get some more help and polish this summer.

Yeah, I got that part. I just missed the part where you posted your similar concerns about Coach Brown, who has zero experiences as a RB coach and (aside from one good player) a cadre of young/underperforming/not very good players.

 

At least Beck can say he was the Co-OC at Kansas when they had some pretty solid QB play from Reesing, and he may (for all we know) have had a part in that.

 

I just continue to find it interesting what people choose to focus on.

 

 

if you look back, i didn't post anything regarding Ron Brown. i will say i think the transition to college qb is much greater than is running back. i think a lot of kids that come out of high school as qbs really have no business playing that position in college and even those that do need a lot of refinement...TM obviously received little attention as a qb recruit and needs lots of coaching to be a complete qb....not sure how much he is going to get next fall..he needs to use his time wisely this summer.

[bshirt]

I find it funny no one even mentions Taylor had ZERO protection and receivers that couldn't get open for the CCG and Holiday Bowl. It's all on Taylor. How many QBs actually succeed under those conditions? Why are so many people convinced Carnes could, no sweat?

 

Good point.

 

I'll bet there is 1,000 posts on Huskerboard alone (not to mention Rivals, Scout, HP, ect) that target Tmart for the loss to Texas. Ted's wrs drop his and Lee's passes all game long and...of course....."Texas exposes Tmart!"......"Good defenses will always stop him!!"...."Tmart can't pass!!"........blah, blah, blah for forever.

 

Heh, it's really something.

[Enhance]

I find it funny no one even mentions Taylor had ZERO protection and receivers that couldn't get open for the CCG and Holiday Bowl. It's all on Taylor. How many QBs actually succeed under those conditions? Why are so many people convinced Carnes could, no sweat?

You raise a very good point. I'm not a supporter of either player, I'm a supporter of whoever gets the job, so keep that in mind before I say this next part.

 

If you go back and watch some of the Big 12 CCG, there were times where Martinez got sacked even when protection was good. In football, you're supposed to have the ball out of your hands and to a receiver in an average 2.5 to 3 seconds. The line didn't do him any favors but Martinez definitely held onto the ball too long at times.

[The Dude]

I find it funny no one even mentions Taylor had ZERO protection and receivers that couldn't get open for the CCG and Holiday Bowl. It's all on Taylor. How many QBs actually succeed under those conditions? Why are so many people convinced Carnes could, no sweat?

You raise a very good point. I'm not a supporter of either player, I'm a supporter of whoever gets the job, so keep that in mind before I say this next part.

 

If you go back and watch some of the Big 12 CCG, there were times where Martinez got sacked even when protection was good. In football, you're supposed to have the ball out of your hands and to a receiver in an average 2.5 to 3 seconds. The line didn't do him any favors but Martinez definitely held onto the ball too long at times.

I agree. I'm not making excuses for him, he obviously has a lot of room to improve on his game, like all young QBs do. It just seems as though we forget it's a team sport from time to time. Eric Crouch made the comment that the game is going to slow down for him A LOT between year one and year two.

 

I've said a few times I want the best player out there, I don't care if it's Martinez, Green, Carnes, Kellogg, Spano, Turner, Starling, or Lance Jeter. Play the best guy. I think that guy will be Taylor based mostly off of Crouch's comments. There's no substituting experience. But Bo has proved he WILL play the guy who gives us the best chance to win by starting Tmart last year.

[The Dude]

btw that list of QBs (in order) was my official projected QB depth chart.

[walksalone]

I'm just wondering why our resident 165 IQ'er hasn't gone completely batsh*t crazy about this thread yet...

[Enhance]

I'm just wondering why our resident 165 IQ'er hasn't gone completely batsh*t crazy about this thread yet...

He's probably too busy going over Einstein's theory of relativity. After all, with an IQ of 165, that's five points higher than what Einstein's projected IQ was.

[walksalone]

I'm just wondering why our resident 165 IQ'er hasn't gone completely batsh*t crazy about this thread yet...

He's probably too busy going over Einstein's theory of relativity. After all, with an IQ of 165, that's five points higher than what Einstein's projected IQ was.

 

Too bad Einstein was a dumb ass, who couldn't tell you that Wisconsin and Iowa are the two teams were definitely gonna beat next season