Jesus and abortion

[krill]

Although I find the spirit of the question is pointless and only meant to agitate, consider that before modern medicine infant mortality rates were well over 25% and perhaps a majority of people died before the age of 6 in ancient civilizations. I do not believe Jesus was a divine figure, only a man making observations on the world around him, and within that context the death of infants was not of particular importance because it was such a regular occurrence.

[CornHOLIO]

Did anyone here claim that the Bible was written or dictated by Jesus? Your non-point doesn't explain dick. If wire coathangers hadn't advanced to plastic, maybe your mother would've done us all a big favor.

 

The claim was not made here, but...

 

Per the post-Nicene Christian dogma of the Trinity, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one.

 

And that same Christianity credits the Holy Spirit as the author or inspiration of the Bible.

 

1 Cor 2:13 - This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

 

2 Pet 1;20,21 - Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

 

2 Tim 3:16,17 - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

So many different Bibles.

 

 

 

Makes it hard to determine the actual birth of Yellow Journalism

[johnnyrodgers20]

Did anyone here claim that the Bible was written or dictated by Jesus? Your non-point doesn't explain dick. If wire coathangers hadn't advanced to plastic, maybe your mother would've done us all a big favor.

 

....as a mod, I'm going to have to warn you against personal attacks against other people.

 

that being said,

there are both pro-abortion and anti-abortion stories/rules in the Bible. It's a huge book of contradictions. When it comes to passing laws in our country, I ask everyone to look at the reasons for their point of view. If they're religious based...if you have to say "god tells us (fill in the blank)"... I think you have no right to push those views into laws. Whether it be abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

 

 

I disagree, just about every law comes from someone's strong belief in the good of the people. Whether your God is my God or the Wicca's god, your core beliefs are usually what drives your actions and thus makes our laws.

[johnnyrodgers20]

Matt Quote:

 

Johnny, I'm only a troublemaker in your eyes because I call you out for what you are. A troll, and a pretty lousy one at that.

 

HE! HE! You hurt my feelings on that one. I really respoect your point of view and look to you for my existence, no wait, wrong person you are the troll that everyone laugh at, my bad. Nice self prtrait though, love your pic.

[JJ Husker]

Did anyone here claim that the Bible was written or dictated by Jesus? Your non-point doesn't explain dick. If wire coathangers hadn't advanced to plastic, maybe your mother would've done us all a big favor.

....as a mod, I'm going to have to warn you against personal attacks against other people. that being said, there are both pro-abortion and anti-abortion stories/rules in the Bible. It's a huge book of contradictions. When it comes to passing laws in our country, I ask everyone to look at the reasons for their point of view. If they're religious based...if you have to say "god tells us (fill in the blank)"... I think you have no right to push those views into laws. Whether it be abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

 

Fine. Are you going to also warn redblooded for advocating for the abortion of Jesus and basically waging a personal attack on all Christians? What's good for the goose......

And BTW, that wasn't a personal attack. I am the one against abortion in this discussion and he is the one apparently for it. How dare I suggest he being willing to suffer the consequences of what he proposes.

 

I have dealt with this issue in the context it was presented. I can't help it if people jump to conclusions and make assumptions about what laws others may or may not push. And, as far as I know, I have all the same rights you or anyone else does and I can be for or against any law I see fit, for any reason I see fit. If it happens to be a religion based belief, I guess other people simply have to deal with that. I've never understood the position that simply because a person does not have a religion to base a belief on, why that makes their position somehow more valid. I think you have no right to say others have no right.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Did anyone here claim that the Bible was written or dictated by Jesus? Your non-point doesn't explain dick. If wire coathangers hadn't advanced to plastic, maybe your mother would've done us all a big favor.

 

....as a mod, I'm going to have to warn you against personal attacks against other people.

 

that being said,

there are both pro-abortion and anti-abortion stories/rules in the Bible. It's a huge book of contradictions. When it comes to passing laws in our country, I ask everyone to look at the reasons for their point of view. If they're religious based...if you have to say "god tells us (fill in the blank)"... I think you have no right to push those views into laws. Whether it be abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

 

If some of our laws are brought into existence based solely on religion, wouldn't that violate our first amendment right as citizens of the United States to have freedom of religion?

[VectorVictor]

Did anyone here claim that the Bible was written or dictated by Jesus? Your non-point doesn't explain dick. If wire coathangers hadn't advanced to plastic, maybe your mother would've done us all a big favor.

 

....as a mod, I'm going to have to warn you against personal attacks against other people.

 

that being said,

there are both pro-abortion and anti-abortion stories/rules in the Bible. It's a huge book of contradictions. When it comes to passing laws in our country, I ask everyone to look at the reasons for their point of view. If they're religious based...if you have to say "god tells us (fill in the blank)"... I think you have no right to push those views into laws. Whether it be abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

 

 

I disagree, just about every law comes from someone's strong belief in the good of the people. Whether your God is my God or the Wicca's god, your core beliefs are usually what drives your actions and thus makes our laws.

 

But I thought that Republicans didn't like Federal figures dictating what is good for the people. Or is that only when they're not the ones doing the dictation?

 

As for the origins of law, they were created to organize, protect, and propagate civilization, not to appease a deity. We had laws (norms, really) in culture before religions became aligned in certain regions. When the culture became saturated by religion, that is when we see religion directly influencing law.

 

Additionally, one could say they are an expression and preservation of culture. Now, religion (as you 'eloquently' brought up, JR) can be a part of this culture, and the size of role religion plays is determined by the significance that culture places on religion.

 

Frankly, church attendance (and one can derive, adherence to faith and the number of practicing Christians) has dwindled in the United States for a number of years. It shouldn't be a shock that more laws are proposed that don't adhere to Christian doctrine, as the number of practicing Christians in the United States has declined. It's a political shift that has been a long time coming, as Christian doctrine being the basis for rule of law had its heyday with the passage of the 18th Amendment, and it's been on a steady decline ever since.

[johnnyrodgers20]

What I was saying is that religion drives most laws because that forms our beliefs in right and wrong. So unless you are an anarchist you have some moral compass that makes you decide on a law. Now if you are an atheist you morals wouldn't come from God but whatever inner moral belief system that determines right from wrong. Since most people in this country do believe in God most laws would therefore come from their belief system and morals.

[johnnyrodgers20]

Did anyone here claim that the Bible was written or dictated by Jesus? Your non-point doesn't explain dick. If wire coathangers hadn't advanced to plastic, maybe your mother would've done us all a big favor.

 

....as a mod, I'm going to have to warn you against personal attacks against other people.

 

that being said,

there are both pro-abortion and anti-abortion stories/rules in the Bible. It's a huge book of contradictions. When it comes to passing laws in our country, I ask everyone to look at the reasons for their point of view. If they're religious based...if you have to say "god tells us (fill in the blank)"... I think you have no right to push those views into laws. Whether it be abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

 

If some of our laws are brought into existence based solely on religion, wouldn't that violate our first amendment right as citizens of the United States to have freedom of religion?

 

All laws are based in right and wrong so there is a moral decision no matter what the outcome. Unless the few atheists in the country make all the laws religion would play some role in the outcome.

[VectorVictor]

Did anyone here claim that the Bible was written or dictated by Jesus? Your non-point doesn't explain dick. If wire coathangers hadn't advanced to plastic, maybe your mother would've done us all a big favor.

 

....as a mod, I'm going to have to warn you against personal attacks against other people.

 

that being said,

there are both pro-abortion and anti-abortion stories/rules in the Bible. It's a huge book of contradictions. When it comes to passing laws in our country, I ask everyone to look at the reasons for their point of view. If they're religious based...if you have to say "god tells us (fill in the blank)"... I think you have no right to push those views into laws. Whether it be abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.

 

If some of our laws are brought into existence based solely on religion, wouldn't that violate our first amendment right as citizens of the United States to have freedom of religion?

 

All laws are based in right and wrong so there is a moral decision no matter what the outcome. Unless the few atheists in the country make all the laws religion would play some role in the outcome.

 

So sanitation and traffic laws are based on moral decisions? Where, praytell, does the bible cover how traffic should merge onto an interstate using an on-ramp, or that recycling can only consist of #x, #y, or #z plastics and paper? (I kid, I kid...)

 

Seriously, laws are created to organize, protect, and propagate civilization, even in an absence of religion. Morality only plays into the mix if culture embraced by the lawmakers allows it to do so. Sure, laws can be influenced by what religion deems as right or wrong via culture, but to say that "All laws are based in right and wrong so there is a moral decision no matter what the outcome" is not valid.

 

Frankly, I have more faith in my fellow man that they would be able to create rules and laws for the betterment of society in the absence of an organized religion.

[Sub-Husker]

there are both pro-abortion and anti-abortion stories/rules in the Bible.

 

In the Epistles of Timothy Tebow?

[Sub-Husker]

I'm not understanding the premise of this thread. Is it to cast doubt on the teachings of Jesus? Is it to say that all social issues today shouldn't be based on 2,000-year-old teachings? Is it to say that abortion isn't a religious issue?

 

Where are we going with this?

 

It seems to be a bashing of the Religious Right, who have a history of applying the Bible, Christianity and Jesus with selective creativity.

 

Like the same selective creativity the Catholic Church employed when they constructed the Bible in the first place?

 

Good analogy.

 

Like Republicans, the early Doctors of the Church wrote some strange things into official church dogma.

[Sub-Husker]

I really don't understand what you are after cactusboy. Sure it would be crystal clear if he was quoted as saying, life begins at conception and you should not kill that life before it emerges from the birth canal.

 

Jesus was well known to speak His mind against the Judaic practices with some pretty damn good moral clarity.

 

That's why I posted the link to their current law on when a fetus became a human being.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_abor.htm

[HSKR]

I believe there is a verse in the bible that states God knows someone even before they are in the womb so Jesus would be against abortion since you would already be someone to him. There are also versus that state the unborn or children too young to know God will go to heaven if they die. So in summary, abortion is by far the best chance a liberal will ever have of making it to heaven.

[JJ Husker]

I believe there is a verse in the bible that states God knows someone even before they are in the womb so Jesus would be against abortion since you would already be someone to him. There are also versus that state the unborn or children too young to know God will go to heaven if they die. So in summary, abortion is by far the best chance a liberal will ever have of making it to heaven.

 

Thank you for the new perspective. I think I now understand much better why so many liberals are for abortion. Seriously, you might be on to something here.