The Religious Discussion of 2012

[The Dude]

The reason it is called faith is because it is something that can not be proven. You have no proof that there isn't a God either. It is your faith in the secular world that makes you an unbeliever but it is faith nonetheless. We are just at an impass, your faith vs mine and we shall not know the outcome until we are both gone.

 

Maybe it can be proven in the future or has been proven in the past, but scientific proof is not available to us at the present.

 

While a god (supernatural being) has neither been proven nor disproven, as is with dark matter, the existance of one or more does make logical sense. The fact that science follows a series of rigid laws could mean that they were intelligently designed into out universe. Or that they came about at random, and our particular universe out of a near infinite number had the right set of scientific laws for life to come into being. But the creation of our universe required energy and a catalyst for the big bang to occur, which does point to a supernatural intelligence.

 

Why does it point to a supernatural intelligence? Why couldn't it be spontaneous?

 

As far as I know energy cannot be created from nothing, and every reaction requires some sort of catalyst.

 

If there was nothing (matter or energy in our foru dimensions) before the big bang, then what caused it?

 

I have no idea, neither do you. That doesn't mean a wizard did it. There's nothing that points to that.

 

Edit: Also, if there was nothing before the big bang, where did the supernatural being come from? Logically, wouldn't it follow that there wasn't one since there was, ya' know, nothing?

[Sub-Husker]

Which goes back to what Johnnyrodgers said. The world begins to worship false idols and people turn their backs on God. Your egocentrism will only take you so far. It doesn't matter how smart you are, you will never be greater or more powerful than God, and the fact that you are even saying this is frustrating to say the least.

 

If god is so powerful, then why is she frustrated?

 

The Yahweh presented in the Old Testament is a cruel deity, not worth worshipping.

 

There's a little thing called humility that everybody should learn at some point in their lives, and it is better learned sooner than later. Bowing down to God, who is far more powerful and amazing than you can ever imagine, is by far the most intelligent act that you can do with your act. So if you're trying to be intelligent, try that route instead.

 

You men "trying not to be intelligent", and turning to religion?

[Sub-Husker]

As far as I know energy cannot be created from nothing, and every reaction requires some sort of catalyst.

 

If there was nothing (matter or energy in our four dimensions) before the big bang, then what caused it?

 

I have no idea, neither do you.

 

You are wrong.

 

We both have ideas, which is why we are posting here on the topic.

 

That doesn't mean a wizard did it. There's nothing that points to that.

 

What is a wizard, and why is one being discussed here?

 

Edit: Also, if there was nothing before the big bang, where did the supernatural being come from? Logically, wouldn't it follow that there wasn't one since there was, ya' know, nothing?

 

Please read again... I did not say that there was nothing.

[johnnyrodgers20]

Edit - Not worth the time.

 

I respect your close-minded reliance on faith, HuskerShark, even though I don't agree with it. I sincerely hope that, one day, you broaden your mind to other thoughts and ideals. That doesn't mean change your religion/faith, but understand that people out there think you are 100% wrong. That's all I've been trying to convey this entire time - there are millions who disagree with you, yet you brush them under the rug like a speck of dust. That...I don't understand.

 

 

He is not close minded but rather confident in his faith. He isn't brushing anyone under the rug but rather trying to convince them that they are making a big mistake in not taking Jesus as their Lord and Savior. You can criticize his methods but you shouldn't insult his intellect with statements like close minded, that is not right. And I am sure if he is a Christian he doesn't feel anyone is a speck of dust, if anything he holds them dearly and wants them to have eternal life. Husker shark- Good job & Happy Ash Wednesday and keep the faith!!! I will be getting my cross tonight to show my faith, I hope everyone has a great day!!

[johnnyrodgers20]

 

Which goes back to what Johnnyrodgers said. The world begins to worship false idols and people turn their backs on God. Your egocentrism will only take you so far. It doesn't matter how smart you are, you will never be greater or more powerful than God, and the fact that you are even saying this is frustrating to say the least.

 

There's a little thing called humility that everybody should learn at some point in their lives, and it is better learned sooner than later. Bowing down to God, who is far more powerful and amazing than you can ever imagine, is by far the most intelligent act that you can do with your act. So if you're trying to be intelligent, try that route instead.

 

This is hysterical. Religion is anti-humility. You talk about things as fact for which you admit you have no evidence, then accuse your opponents of egocentrism for having the audacity to ask you to explain yourself. The days where religious people get to spout nonsense in public forums without criticism are over. And not a moment too soon, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Well, it won't be a moment too soon when secular humanists get criticized for their nonsense in a public forum. One mans trash is another man's treasure.

[johnnyrodgers20]

Time didn't just suddenly begin one day without supernatural intervention. There's no other way to explain it, especially not science.

 

 

 

ah, you can explain that, not a very good example, please try again!!!

[johnnyrodgers20]

I never understood why people try to convert people to their religion on the internet, which is what this thread has almost turned into. Almost every conversion story you hear is because either something happened to the person that seemed supernatural or they see a person living their lives religiously and they feel a connection, and think that by converting, their lives will have more meaning. Obviously neither of those can happen on a message board, and anything you quote from the Bible and any other religious text is going to have its fair share of criticism, and won't be the only reason why someone converts to a religion. If you did not know, I am a devout Catholic and try to live my life through the words of Jesus, and if, by living my life this way, someone feels they will have a more fulfilling life by converting to Catholicism, then hey, I'm happy for them. But you're not gonna see me on here trying to prove that God is real because I truly believe that it is a waste of time, just like how it's a waste of time to prove that there isn't a God.

 

+1, excellent post!!

[carlfense]

Time didn't just suddenly begin one day without supernatural intervention. There's no other way to explain it, especially not science.

 

 

 

ah, you can explain that, not a very good example, please try again!!!

It's a reference to O'Reilly's statements about the tides. Something like "Tide goes in. Tide goes out. You can't explain that."

 

It's funny, because we actually can explain it.

[johnnyrodgers20]

The reason it is called faith is because it is something that can not be proven. You have no proof that there isn't a God either. It is your faith in the secular world that makes you an unbeliever but it is faith nonetheless. We are just at an impass, your faith vs mine and we shall not know the outcome until we are both gone.

Maybe it can be proven in the future or has been proven in the past, but scientific proof is not available to us at the present. While a god (supernatural being) has neither been proven nor disproven, as is with dark matter, the existance of one or more does make logical sense. The fact that science follows a series of rigid laws could mean that they were intelligently designed into out universe. Or that they came about at random, and our particular universe out of a near infinite number had the right set of scientific laws for life to come into being. But the creation of our universe required energy and a catalyst for the big bang to occur, which does point to a supernatural intelligence.

Why does it point to a supernatural intelligence? Why couldn't it be spontaneous?

As far as I know energy cannot be created from nothing, and every reaction requires some sort of catalyst. If there was nothing (matter or energy in our foru dimensions) before the big bang, then what caused it?

I have no idea, neither do you. That doesn't mean a wizard did it. There's nothing that points to that. Edit: Also, if there was nothing before the big bang, where did the supernatural being come from? Logically, wouldn't it follow that there wasn't one since there was, ya' know, nothing?

 

That is why we say he always was, is and ever shall be!!

[johnnyrodgers20]

Time didn't just suddenly begin one day without supernatural intervention. There's no other way to explain it, especially not science.

ah, you can explain that, not a very good example, please try again!!!

It's a reference to O'Reilly's statements about the tides. Something like "Tide goes in. Tide goes out. You can't explain that." It's funny, because we actually can explain it.

 

I agree +1

[Hoosker]

Any time you have to use "you can't explain that" as your evidence to why God exists is ridiculous. Of course there is an endless list of things in this world that we can't explain, but just because we can't explain them doesn't mean that we shouldn't pursue them or be satisfied with an answer that has no proof.

 

I'm only speaking for myself here, but I think in order for the human race to progress intellectually and scientifically, then we need to abandon faith and take a more firm grasp on science (things that are proven). I agree with you Christians that the world is far too massive for us to comprehend, but I believe that it is our duty as human beings to be skeptical about how we got here and try to fill in the missing pieces through research and intelligence, not blind faith in something that sounds like a fairy tale.

 

My point - While we can all agree that the world is a beautiful place and is still relatively unknown to us, it's better to be skeptical about how we got here and try to find the answers through a scientific process using facts and logic than to just say some magical guy in the sky created all this in a week and not strive to discover the real answers of our world.

[HuskerShark]

.

[Enhance]

He is not close minded but rather confident in his faith. He isn't brushing anyone under the rug but rather trying to convince them that they are making a big mistake in not taking Jesus as their Lord and Savior. You can criticize his methods but you shouldn't insult his intellect with statements like close minded, that is not right. And I am sure if he is a Christian he doesn't feel anyone is a speck of dust, if anything he holds them dearly and wants them to have eternal life. Husker shark- Good job & Happy Ash Wednesday and keep the faith!!! I will be getting my cross tonight to show my faith, I hope everyone has a great day!!

What?

 

How is not close-mindedness? By it's very definition it means someone who is intolerant of another's beliefs, or refuses to view something in another way. You read what he has said and say it isn't close-mindedness?

 

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that confidence in faith allows you to be ignorant and arrogant towards other people's beliefs, too? That's what HuskerShark has been doing this entire thread. Supporting that kind of behavior is supporting close-mindedness.

 

If my devout Catholic girlfriend can accept other people's faths/beliefs/religion, and Shark can't, I think that's saying something profound. He has the exact kind of behavior which instigated hundreds of years of religious wars and persecutions in the name of God.

[Hoosker]

He is not close minded but rather confident in his faith. He isn't brushing anyone under the rug but rather trying to convince them that they are making a big mistake in not taking Jesus as their Lord and Savior. You can criticize his methods but you shouldn't insult his intellect with statements like close minded, that is not right. And I am sure if he is a Christian he doesn't feel anyone is a speck of dust, if anything he holds them dearly and wants them to have eternal life. Husker shark- Good job & Happy Ash Wednesday and keep the faith!!! I will be getting my cross tonight to show my faith, I hope everyone has a great day!!

What?

 

How is not close-mindedness? By it's very definition it means someone who is intolerant of another's beliefs, or refuses to view something in another way. You read what he has said and say it isn't close-mindedness?

 

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that confidence in faith allows you to be ignorant and arrogant towards other people's beliefs, too? That's what HuskerShark has been doing this entire thread. Supporting that kind of behavior is supporting close-mindedness.

 

If my devout Catholic girlfriend can accept other people's faths/beliefs/religion, and Shark can't, I think that's saying something profound. He has the exact kind of behavior which instigated hundreds of years of religious wars and persecutions in the name of God.

 

Again, I have nothing to add to this already spot-on point. Kudos, Enhance.

[HuskerShark]

He is not close minded but rather confident in his faith. He isn't brushing anyone under the rug but rather trying to convince them that they are making a big mistake in not taking Jesus as their Lord and Savior. You can criticize his methods but you shouldn't insult his intellect with statements like close minded, that is not right. And I am sure if he is a Christian he doesn't feel anyone is a speck of dust, if anything he holds them dearly and wants them to have eternal life. Husker shark- Good job & Happy Ash Wednesday and keep the faith!!! I will be getting my cross tonight to show my faith, I hope everyone has a great day!!

What?

 

How is not close-mindedness? By it's very definition it means someone who is intolerant of another's beliefs, or refuses to view something in another way. You read what he has said and say it isn't close-mindedness?

 

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that confidence in faith allows you to be ignorant and arrogant towards other people's beliefs, too? That's what HuskerShark has been doing this entire thread. Supporting that kind of behavior is supporting close-mindedness.

 

If my devout Catholic girlfriend can accept other people's faths/beliefs/religion, and Shark can't, I think that's saying something profound. He has the exact kind of behavior which instigated hundreds of years of religious wars and persecutions in the name of God.

 

Again, I have nothing to add to this already spot-on point. Kudos, Enhance.

 

I don't know where this is coming from. 3 or 4 of my friends are Jewish. A foreign exchange student from Norway that my parents had 2 or 3 years ago didn't believe in God. The other exchange student was from Taiwan and was not Christian either. You guys don't even know me, so don't be so quick to pass judgment.