The Religious Discussion of 2012

[Enhance]

Again, I have nothing to add to this already spot-on point. Kudos, Enhance.

It's just getting ridiculous at this point, Mills. I don't see anybody here asking for proof, or even saying that people can't believe what they want. I've spent this entire thread trying to show the futility and utter arrogance in putting supreme confidence behind one's own beliefs. Yet, no matter what I say, they continue to provide "proof", necessitate their ability to provide proof and defend their narrow viewpoints because it's "faith."

 

I don't know how many times I can say that people can believe whatever they want, just understand that they could be wrong and others have different view points.

 

You must remember that also!! By the way as science tries to disprove the bible they have actually found some stories may be true (E. G. Sodom and Gomorrah).

I welcome you to revisit the last four pages in this thread, where I have said (on numerous, numerous occasions) that I have no problem with others view points, what they choose to believe, or what they put their faith in. I admit that there very well could be a God in the Christian sense, that Jesus Christ could be his son, etc., etc.

 

In fact, I have spent quite literally no time trying to convince Shark he is wrong. I have spent my ENTIRE TIME trying to get him broaden his intellectual horizons while remaining true to his faith.

[Enhance]

Calling someone ignorant for not believing what you believe is pretty hateful, whether you choose to recognize this or not.

 

You could take it that way, and that is what he said, but isn't it far more likely that what he intended to convey was a firm conviction in his beliefs, and those words weren't the most politick?

I would say no. When you say Christianity has the most substantiation, and believing anything else is ignorant, it's far too easy to take those words for their face value. This is the internet, so misinterpretation is easy. If that's what he actually meant, I invite him to come forward and say it.

[HuskerShark]

Calling someone ignorant for not believing what you believe is pretty hateful, whether you choose to recognize this or not.

 

You could take it that way, and that is what he said, but isn't it far more likely that what he intended to convey was a firm conviction in his beliefs, and those words weren't the most politick?

I would say no. When you say Christianity has the most substantiation, and believing anything else is ignorant, it's far too easy to take those words for their face value. This is the internet, so misinterpretation is easy. If that's what he actually meant, I invite him to come forward and say it.

 

Yes, that's what I actually meant. Sorry for not being politically correct when I said it.

[Sub-Husker]

This isn't Noah's Ark. This has been debunked quite thoroughly, actually. You really should check this stuff before you post it.

 

Why bother 'checking' 'facts' when confirmation bias gives you such a warm, tingly feeling inside?

 

Faith often runs counter to fact... of couse there is the belief that it is Noah's Ark.

[Sub-Husker]

You must remember that also!! By the way as science tries to disprove the bible they have actually found some stories may be true (E. G. Sodom and Gomorrah).

 

Did they find the pillar of salt that was Lot's wife?

[Enhance]

Calling someone ignorant for not believing what you believe is pretty hateful, whether you choose to recognize this or not.

 

You could take it that way, and that is what he said, but isn't it far more likely that what he intended to convey was a firm conviction in his beliefs, and those words weren't the most politick?

I would say no. When you say Christianity has the most substantiation, and believing anything else is ignorant, it's far too easy to take those words for their face value. This is the internet, so misinterpretation is easy. If that's what he actually meant, I invite him to come forward and say it.

 

Yes, that's what I actually meant. Sorry for not being politically correct when I said it.

Then by that, I think I'm done in this thread. I have no problem with people choosing what they want to believe, just so long as they accept other view points reasonably.

[Husker_x]

Also, I'm still wondering about this 'spiritual energy of the universe.' No idea what that means.

 

Yes, I still owe you that, and I may turn it into its own thread.

 

There are the five traditional metaphysical elements of air, earth, fire and water. Some traditions add fifth elements, such as wood, metal or spirit. While I don't buy into metaphysical elements, I do buy into the four traditional forms of energy that have been recorded in four dimensional space/time... EMR, weak molecular, strong molecular and gravity. My studies in physics and spirituality lead me to believe that the universe is not limited to four dimensions, and that there are other dimensions out there that we had not yet been ablle to observe but have been predicted by psysicists and philosophers.

 

The explanation you seek is very complicated, and if given the time I could write a book on it. However that time is not available, and I'd rather answer specific questions regarding the above paragraph.

 

I don't have any specific questions regarding the above paragraph because nowhere in there did I grasp what you meant by the 'spiritual energy of the universe.'

 

What is the spiritual energy of the universe? What are its properties? What can it be said to do that we can observe or test? How is this different from what we might normally call 'energy'? Spiritual energy is not a concept I'm familiar with. Granted, I'm not a scientist, but this sounds very suspicious. It sounds like the kind of thing someone might just make up.

[johnnyrodgers20]

Again, I have nothing to add to this already spot-on point. Kudos, Enhance.

It's just getting ridiculous at this point, Mills. I don't see anybody here asking for proof, or even saying that people can't believe what they want. I've spent this entire thread trying to show the futility and utter arrogance in putting supreme confidence behind one's own beliefs. Yet, no matter what I say, they continue to provide "proof", necessitate their ability to provide proof and defend their narrow viewpoints because it's "faith."

 

I don't know how many times I can say that people can believe whatever they want, just understand that they could be wrong and others have different view points.

 

You must remember that also!! By the way as science tries to disprove the bible they have actually found some stories may be true (E. G. Sodom and Gomorrah).

 

 

EVERYONE must remember that. It's OK to have your belief. It's OK for me to have mine. But when we start ridiculing each other for our beliefs, that's when our points of view lose merit.

 

I'm going to disagree with you and you're going to disagree with me (the generic all-encompassing "you" and "me" BTW), but as long as the discussion is civil and respectful of the beliefs of others, the discussion has merit. Simply bickering back and forth, denegrating others for believing other than you believe, etc. is fruitless and, in fact, counterproductive.

 

 

Amen to that brother!!

[johnnyrodgers20]

I think you are misunderstanding Shark. I haven't read anywhere where he is not accepting of other people's faith, he is just explaining why he believes his is the right one. Everyone who has faith believes they are right, am I correct? Jews and muslims obviously believe that they are right or wouldn't be following their faith. I am sure you are exagerating and I am sure shark would not want a religious war, no one wants that.

 

This is a direct quote from him.

No other religion has had proof that they are right about their beliefs like Christianity. God sent his only son to Earth so that he could die for our sins. What does that tell you? You're ignorant to believe in anything else.

 

Doesn't mean I hate anybody who doesn't believe.

 

 

 

 

 

Also doesn't mean that I won't try to get them to believe in Jesus....

 

Calling someone ignorant for not believing what you believe is pretty hateful, whether you choose to recognize this or not.

 

The word ignorant has been used in a derogatory fashion for years and i think you misunderstand shark. Ignorant just means lack of knowledge. Everyone is ignorant about certain issues. When I was young I was ignorant of the fact that the earth revolved around the sun. As I grew and was taught I learned that the earth indeed does revolve around the sun. If you are ignorant about the Christian faith it isn't bad or good just a fact. Once you have the kowledge what you do with it is up to you.

[Sub-Husker]

I don't have any specific questions regarding the above paragraph because nowhere in there did I grasp what you meant by the 'spiritual energy of the universe.'

 

What is the spiritual energy of the universe? What are its properties? What can it be said to do that we can observe or test? How is this different from what we might normally call 'energy'? Spiritual energy is not a concept I'm familiar with. Granted, I'm not a scientist, but this sounds very suspicious.

 

What make a collection of DNA a human being?

 

My best guess is the presence of a spirit and a soul.

 

Our soul is our essence, it is what is reincarnated from one lifetime to another.

 

Spirit is the life force given to each of us by a higher being.

 

It sounds like the kind of thing someone might just make up.

 

Edgar Cayce

[johnnyrodgers20]

You must remember that also!! By the way as science tries to disprove the bible they have actually found some stories may be true (E. G. Sodom and Gomorrah).

 

Did they find the pillar of salt that was Lot's wife?

 

 

I think she has been poured out over french fries over the years!!

[The Dude]

As far as I know energy cannot be created from nothing, and every reaction requires some sort of catalyst.

 

If there was nothing (matter or energy in our four dimensions) before the big bang, then what caused it?

 

I have no idea, neither do you.

 

You are wrong.

 

We both have ideas, which is why we are posting here on the topic.

 

That doesn't mean a wizard did it. There's nothing that points to that.

 

What is a wizard, and why is one being discussed here?

 

Edit: Also, if there was nothing before the big bang, where did the supernatural being come from? Logically, wouldn't it follow that there wasn't one since there was, ya' know, nothing?

 

Please read again... I did not say that there was nothing.

What was there before the big bang, then?

[Hoosker]

The word ignorant has been used in a derogatory fashion for years and i think you misunderstand shark. Ignorant just means lack of knowledge. Everyone is ignorant about certain issues. When I was young I was ignorant of the fact that the earth revolved around the sun. As I grew and was taught I learned that the earth indeed does revolve around the sun. If you are ignorant about the Christian faith it isn't bad or good just a fact. Once you have the kowledge what you do with it is up to you.

 

Ignorant just means lack of knowledge respect for others' opinions. Everyone is ignorant about certain issues. Once you have the knowledge respect for others' opinions, what you do with it is up to you.

[jsneb83]

The word ignorant has been used in a derogatory fashion for years and i think you misunderstand shark. Ignorant just means lack of knowledge. Everyone is ignorant about certain issues. When I was young I was ignorant of the fact that the earth revolved around the sun. As I grew and was taught I learned that the earth indeed does revolve around the sun. If you are ignorant about the Christian faith it isn't bad or good just a fact. Once you have the kowledge what you do with it is up to you.

.

 

Ignorant just means lack of knowledge respect for others' opinions. Everyone is ignorant about certain issues. Once you have the knowledge respect for others' opinions, what you do with it is up to you.

You might want to look up ignorant in the dictionary

[Hoosker]

The word ignorant has been used in a derogatory fashion for years and i think you misunderstand shark. Ignorant just means lack of knowledge. Everyone is ignorant about certain issues. When I was young I was ignorant of the fact that the earth revolved around the sun. As I grew and was taught I learned that the earth indeed does revolve around the sun. If you are ignorant about the Christian faith it isn't bad or good just a fact. Once you have the kowledge what you do with it is up to you.

.

 

Ignorant just means lack of knowledge respect for others' opinions. Everyone is ignorant about certain issues. Once you have the knowledge respect for others' opinions, what you do with it is up to you.

You might want to look up ignorant in the dictionary

 

You're right, my fault.

 

To me, it can mean both.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Mills