The Religious Discussion of 2012

[HuskerShark]

Well I can just about guarantee that when you die, the earth won't suddenly turn dark, and there won't be any tremors because of it either. But you guys are right, it's probably all coincidence.

 

Do you have a non-Biblical source for that happening?

 

Seriously, it was 2000 years ago. A couple of decades after Jesus' death, the Romans invaded Jerusalem and Isreal, which would have pretty much destroyed any archaelogical proof that Jesus existed.

 

The Romans were more interested in putting down the latest rebellion by the latest savior, who was one of a great number of saviors of the Jewish people. Jesus did not get much mention.

 

That's why Jesus himself said:

"Blessed are those who believe without seeing me."

 

That was crap invented by John, which is why I stay with the synoptics.

 

You are a piece of work....

[Sub-Husker]

Husker shark, you have to remember that there will come a time in the histroy of the world when believers will be very small in numbers. You will have the humanists who think that man is the height of wisdom and will give glory to their idols. And that any belief in God is unintelligent and will be scoffed at by the intellectual elitists. The only thing you can do is tell them the word of God so when they go before him he can say they were told and they rejected him.

 

Put my name down on the list in big, bold letters, I hereby officially reject the line of bull you are trying to sell me.

 

By the way, I don't need any friggin' idols either... other than by Billy Idol CD.

[Sub-Husker]

You are a piece of work....

 

I take it that means you have no non-Biblical sources.

 

I have been very clear numerous times in the past, the three Synoptic Gospels are different from the Gospel of John in presenting who Jesus was. John was written decades later, and it seems to me as if someone realized that the earier Gospels failed to include a single claim that Jesus was equal to God... so John overdosed on that claim.

[Hoosker]

Husker shark, you have to remember that there will come a time in the histroy of the world when believers will be very small in numbers. You will have the humanists who think that man is the height of wisdom and will give glory to their idols. And that any belief in God is unintelligent and will be scoffed at by the intellectual elitists. The only thing you can do is tell them the word of God so when they go before him he can say they were told and they rejected him.

 

Define "very small in numbers"

 

If your referring to the USA, then yes, a time will come eventually, but as for the rest of the world, they've pretty much come to terms already (or were never believers in the first place)

[HuskerShark]

You are a piece of work....

 

I take it that means you have no non-Biblical sources.

 

I have been very clear numerous times in the past, the three Synoptic Gospels are different from the Gospel of John in presenting who Jesus was. John was written decades later, and it seems to me as if someone realized that the earier Gospels failed to include a single claim that Jesus was equal to God... so John overdosed on that claim.

 

Read the thread. Thallus and Phlegon are non-Biblical sources who acknowledged that the world got dark at the time of Jesus' crucifiction. There are others, but I don't have time to search for them at the moment.

[Sub-Husker]

When Thallus wrote...

 

The Armenian reference places the end of Thallus' "brief compendium" at the 167th Olympiad (which spans 112-109 BCE). This would remain uncontested if it were not for a single reference to Thallus regarding an event long after that time: namely, the darkness at the death of Christ.

 

Phlegon was born 80 CE, so he was not a witness to the events.

 

Lastly, it gets dark before every single rainstorm... nothing supernatural there.

[The Maudfather]

Husker shark, you have to remember that there will come a time in the histroy of the world when believers will be very small in numbers. You will have the humanists who think that man is the height of wisdom and will give glory to their idols. And that any belief in God is unintelligent and will be scoffed at by the intellectual elitists. The only thing you can do is tell them the word of God so when they go before him he can say they were told and they rejected him.

Where does it say in the Bible that there will come a time when believers will be very small in numbers?

[johnnyrodgers20]

Husker shark, you have to remember that there will come a time in the histroy of the world when believers will be very small in numbers. You will have the humanists who think that man is the height of wisdom and will give glory to their idols. And that any belief in God is unintelligent and will be scoffed at by the intellectual elitists. The only thing you can do is tell them the word of God so when they go before him he can say they were told and they rejected him.

 

Put my name down on the list in big, bold letters, I hereby officially reject the line of bull you are trying to sell me.

 

By the way, I don't need any friggin' idols either... other than by Billy Idol CD.

 

 

I am sure it is!! I am sure it is!! Good luck, and God speed!!

[johnnyrodgers20]

Husker shark, you have to remember that there will come a time in the histroy of the world when believers will be very small in numbers. You will have the humanists who think that man is the height of wisdom and will give glory to their idols. And that any belief in God is unintelligent and will be scoffed at by the intellectual elitists. The only thing you can do is tell them the word of God so when they go before him he can say they were told and they rejected him.

 

Define "very small in numbers"

 

If your referring to the USA, then yes, a time will come eventually, but as for the rest of the world, they've pretty much come to terms already (or were never believers in the first place)

 

I meant the world hence the sentence you bolded.

[Husker_x]

Husker shark, you have to remember that there will come a time in the histroy of the world when believers will be very small in numbers. You will have the humanists who think that man is the height of wisdom and will give glory to their idols. And that any belief in God is unintelligent and will be scoffed at by the intellectual elitists. The only thing you can do is tell them the word of God so when they go before him he can say they were told and they rejected him.

 

While I don't think man has achieved 'the height of wisdom,' our modern, secular morality is far superior to the blood soaked nonsense preached in the Old Testament, or the New, for that matter. And you've mistaken a belief in a god being scoffed at with a belief in a god (and all the superstitious claims that come with it) being seriously questioned. Think about it. Why is it so difficult for you--any of you, really--to simply demonstrate your god is real? How hard could it be for this being who you claim used to appear regularly?

 

 

When Thallus wrote...

 

The Armenian reference places the end of Thallus' "brief compendium" at the 167th Olympiad (which spans 112-109 BCE). This would remain uncontested if it were not for a single reference to Thallus regarding an event long after that time: namely, the darkness at the death of Christ.

 

Phlegon was born 80 CE, so he was not a witness to the events.

 

Lastly, it gets dark before every single rainstorm... nothing supernatural there.

 

I'm glad somebody finally brought this up. The entire list crumbles just as easily if you look into the sources, get rid of the interpolations, check the dates, find out exactly what was said, etc. That list is one of those apologist smokescreens that tries to prevent you from seeing the obvious: there is not a single contemporary eye witness testimony of Jesus anywhere, and that includes the synoptic gospels and John, which are themselves anonymous documents written decades and decades after the fact.

 

Also, I'm still wondering about this 'spiritual energy of the universe.' No idea what that means.

[Hoosker]

Husker shark, you have to remember that there will come a time in the histroy of the world when believers will be very small in numbers. You will have the humanists who think that man is the height of wisdom and will give glory to their idols. And that any belief in God is unintelligent and will be scoffed at by the intellectual elitists. The only thing you can do is tell them the word of God so when they go before him he can say they were told and they rejected him.

 

Define "very small in numbers"

 

If your referring to the USA, then yes, a time will come eventually, but as for the rest of the world, they've pretty much come to terms already (or were never believers in the first place)

 

I meant the world hence the sentence you bolded.

 

Ok, that's why I was confused because a great deal of the world already doesn't believe. So I think "the time" has come or whatever.

[johnnyrodgers20]

Husker shark, you have to remember that there will come a time in the histroy of the world when believers will be very small in numbers. You will have the humanists who think that man is the height of wisdom and will give glory to their idols. And that any belief in God is unintelligent and will be scoffed at by the intellectual elitists. The only thing you can do is tell them the word of God so when they go before him he can say they were told and they rejected him.

 

While I don't think man has achieved 'the height of wisdom,' our modern, secular morality is far superior to the blood soaked nonsense preached in the Old Testament, or the New, for that matter. And you've mistaken a belief in a god being scoffed at with a belief in a god (and all the superstitious claims that come with it) being seriously questioned. Think about it. Why is it so difficult for you--any of you, really--to simply demonstrate your god is real? How hard could it be for this being who you claim used to appear regularly?

 

 

When Thallus wrote...

 

The Armenian reference places the end of Thallus' "brief compendium" at the 167th Olympiad (which spans 112-109 BCE). This would remain uncontested if it were not for a single reference to Thallus regarding an event long after that time: namely, the darkness at the death of Christ.

 

Phlegon was born 80 CE, so he was not a witness to the events.

 

Lastly, it gets dark before every single rainstorm... nothing supernatural there.

 

I'm glad somebody finally brought this up. The entire list crumbles just as easily if you look into the sources, get rid of the interpolations, check the dates, find out exactly what was said, etc. That list is one of those apologist smokescreens that tries to prevent you from seeing the obvious: there is not a single contemporary eye witness testimony of Jesus anywhere, and that includes the synoptic gospels and John, which are themselves anonymous documents written decades and decades after the fact.

 

Also, I'm still wondering about this 'spiritual energy of the universe.' No idea what that means.

 

The reason it is called faith is because it is something that can not be proven. You have no proof that there isn't a God either. It is your faith in the secular world that makes you an unbeliever but it is faith nonetheless. We are just at an impass, your faith vs mine and we shall not know the outcome until we are both gone.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

The reason it is called faith is because it is something that can not be proven. You have no proof that there isn't a God either. It is your faith in the secular world that makes you an unbeliever but it is faith nonetheless. We are just at an impasse, your faith vs mine and we shall not know the outcome until we are both gone.

 

This. No one is more right...no one is more wrong. However, there is a difference between proclaiming that it's this way or the highway and trying to point out the flaws with that process

[Sub-Husker]

Also, I'm still wondering about this 'spiritual energy of the universe.' No idea what that means.

 

Yes, I still owe you that, and I may turn it into its own thread.

 

There are the five traditional metaphysical elements of air, earth, fire and water. Some traditions add fifth elements, such as wood, metal or spirit. While I don't buy into metaphysical elements, I do buy into the four traditional forms of energy that have been recorded in four dimensional space/time... EMR, weak molecular, strong molecular and gravity. My studies in physics and spirituality lead me to believe that the universe is not limited to four dimensions, and that there are other dimensions out there that we had not yet been ablle to observe but have been predicted by psysicists and philosophers.

 

The explanation you seek is very complicated, and if given the time I could write a book on it. However that time is not available, and I'd rather answer specific questions regarding the above paragraph.

[johnnyrodgers20]

The reason it is called faith is because it is something that can not be proven. You have no proof that there isn't a God either. It is your faith in the secular world that makes you an unbeliever but it is faith nonetheless. We are just at an impasse, your faith vs mine and we shall not know the outcome until we are both gone.

 

This. No one is more right...no one is more wrong. However, there is a difference between proclaiming that it's this way or the highway and trying to point out the flaws with that process

 

 

I think most people get annoyed by overzealous Christians that have great intentions. No one wants to see another person make a huge mistake (living eternity in hell away from God). Some feel the need to try to save you from yourself and by doing so they tend to alienate people. Kind of like some parents who tell their children not to do something and then freak out when they do it. The parent that can use that circumstance as a learning and enlightening experience usually has the better outcome. They must know that it is always the child's decision and that child must pay the consequences for his actions.

 

So I think to force Christianity onto people is actually doing more harm than good. You can proclaim the word of God but it is for the person who hears it to determine if he accepts God and our Lord and Savior, no one else can do that for them.