The Religious Discussion of 2012

[bennychico11]

The reason the religion went away is because they had nothing concrete to reinforce their beliefs. I like Greek mythology a lot, but it's just that: a myth.

 

The difference with Christianity is that God sent his only son to Earth to do 2 things:

1) reinforce faith in Him

2) to take away our sins so that we could have eternal life, as long as we believe in Jesus Christ

 

Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you. I hope you believe in your heart that Jesus gave us the ultimate gift, but if not, there is nothing that I can do about it.

 

You pick the myth that is most comfortable to you. Why is it that Christianity is real and the stories of the Greek gods are just myths? Just because a story tells you that a god sent his son to earth in order to do those things...doesn't make it true! Don't accept things just because someone says they are true!!!! Use reason and a rational mind to find truth!

 

I'll start going through the article you mentioned (don't know if I'll finish it all tonight):

 

First-

"It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon."

 

The select few who do refuse to believe in the moon landing the rest of us (99%) find insane. Still, we have collaborative evidence over years and years...where independent researchers and scientists can all say "yep, the moon is real and the possibility that we landed on it is real." Unfortunately, no one can even provide evidence that your god is real...let alone that specific people "know him", have stories about him, that the Christian god is the one true god, etc. But even STILL, those people who deny the moon can be physically flown to the moon and step foot on it themselves if they wanted to. THAT is natural evidence.

 

Second, regarding the first question, which is basically the "watch maker" argument:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmaker_analogy

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Argument_from_design

Unfortunately all of these can be refuted. "ie. the eye really isn't that amazing. Consider why so many people need glasses/contacts...or can't see color. Not a very well designed piece. Even still, regarding the perfect conditions of the earth....yes, they are perfect for life as we know it. That doesn't mean it's the only life in the universe. It also doesn't mean that a "creator" created it. Life is only proof of life. Not that we have an all powerful being who used magic being (which, btw, you have no evidence for magic either...and IMO would need to prove before you even provided evidence of a god to me).

 

Big Bang:

Wasn't an explosion. It was an explansion.

Which, the writer never really goes on to refute. Just asks "what caused this." So I don't know what else to say except do some research on Big Bang cosmology. But they are right on one thing...we don't have a consensus on what happened before it, and we may never know. But that doesn't mean we can just "insert god here"

 

"Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?"

If the universe was any different...would you recognize it as different, or only assume that's the way it works? Let me give an example. Say you win the lottery this Saturday with the numbers 5 14 27 29 32 & 11. That's amazing isn't it? It's amazing how you picked the exact numbers in the exact order that would win you 200 Million dollars!!! What are the odds? Well...we know actually they are 1 in 175,223,510.00

Now, what if on a second ticket you picked the numbers 4 12 19 32 36 & 27

Even though those numbers didn't win...what are the odds that those MAY have been the winning numbers? It's the EXACT same odds!

We as humans perceive order because we're just wired that way to see it. We see order in the world and say "this is the only way it's got to be" We have no basis for comparison.

More reading: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/carroll09/carroll09_index.html

(btw, this kind of answers the next line of questions in the article)

 

Skipping further down to #6)

Those religions still have a god...one that is not your god. So why is your god the right god? Only because he had the Jesus tale? Although the debate of whether or not your Jesus existsed, let alone was god, is up to debate. Many Christians aren't sure among themselves either.

 

The rest kind of gets into preaching...claiming the Bible is full of facts and that because it claims that Jesus is the son of god...then it's the only way it can be. Period.

 

 

Reading some other articles by this same writer, it's clear how biased they are. Specifically how they ignore every other major religion purely because it makes them feel better to believe the tales they've heard in Bible. There's a whole articles explaining because Christianity is the only religion that promises a true relationship with the one god now in this world...then that's obviously the one true belief you should follow!

[Husker_x]

What is the 'spiritual energy of the universe'?

 

I suggest that you look at the book The Inner Temple of Witchcraft by Christopher Penzak.

 

Looked at the title on Amazon. Sounds like a smorgasbord of woo. I'm more interested in a definition of the 'spiritual energy of the universe.'

[bennychico11]

I'm still not sure what some people would consider proof. The proof is around you each and every day. As far as proof about Jesus, I don't know what you want. A YouTube video showing him walking on water?

 

proof is the wrong word for everyone to be using. They should be saying "evidence". There has been no evidence presented of a god. I don't need to see Jesus walking on water, I need testable, verifiable, repeatable, evidence...and then I'll believe a god exists. But even then, that doesn't mean I'll worship him. ESPECIALLY if it's the god of the Bible.

 

There were a couple of times when I have questioned the existence or intent of God. Once was four years ago when my cousin--who was also my best friend at the time-- died of leukemia. The other was about a year and a half ago after I had an ugly breakup with my girlfriend at that time. I won't get into specifics, but those things really changed my outlook on life. I realized that God is the only real thing in this world, and once I did, things just began to look up. I realized that God has a plan greater than you can even imagine.

I'm sorry you had to go through a rough time with your cousin and then later your girlfriend during those times. But what I don't understand is why everyone just chalks it up to "god has a plan." How do you know? When someone dies of natural causes it's "god decided it was their time." When a tornado hits Joplin and kills a bunch of people it's "well, god didn't create the tornado, it's just nature running it's course."

So many of you speak of knowledge of how god works...but can't even give evidence of why you think that's the way god works!! Somehow you have this extra knowledge that the rest of us don't!

Your cousin may have gotten leukemia from a genetic predisposition, HTLV-1 virus, or other scientifically explained conditions. Your girlfriend may have broken up with you over something you said or with the way she saw the relationship going...and decided that she wanted to go a different direction. It's a cause and effect. Not an ultimate plan by someone else.

 

You say god gives us the ultimate gift of free will...but then when it comes down to something like death or sickness, you just say it was god's plan!?

[HuskerShark]

Can anyone tell me what year we are in right now? Since I don't want to wait for a reply to get my point across, I'll just get on with it. If this reasoning works for you, then great. If not, then oh well.

 

We are in the year 2012.. AD. Which means Anno Domini, translated as "Year of our Lord" referring to the birth of Christ. Anytime before that was BC. Before Christ. If there was no Jesus Christ, why would people in the world number the years based upon when He was born? They wouldn't. The life and death of Christ was spelled out in the Bible, and though it has been revised and tampered with over time, the basic messages within it still exist.

[Husker_x]

 

I hope you guys find the answers you're looking for. Instead of looking at the Bible as proof of God's existence--since most of you seem to be skeptical of the Bible--just look at the things around you. None of it would have been possible without a "higher power" at work. That higher power is God, and He loves each and every one of us more than you can imagine. The least you can do to repay Him for His love is to believe in Him and to live your life according to His words. Dedicate your life to serving Him, and forget about worldly worries and doubts.

 

You jumped straight from a 'higher power' who created a pretty inhospitable planet within a very inhospitable universe for human life to a 'higher power' that I should believe in, listen to, and serve unquestioningly. Not even the people who love me ask that much, and they even have a side benefit this 'higher power' of yours doesn't have: they appear to exist.

 

Can anyone tell me what year we are in right now? Since I don't want to wait for a reply to get my point across, I'll just get on with it. If this reasoning works for you, then great. If not, then oh well.

 

We are in the year 2012.. AD. Which means Anno Domini, translated as "Year of our Lord" referring to the birth of Christ. Anytime before that was BC. Before Christ. If there was no Jesus Christ, why would people in the world number the years based upon when He was born? They wouldn't. The life and death of Christ was spelled out in the Bible, and though it has been revised and tampered with over time, the basic messages within it still exist.

 

Is that supposed to be a joke?

[Sub-Husker]

I'm still not sure what some people would consider proof. The proof is around you each and every day. As far as proof about Jesus, I don't know what you want. A YouTube video showing him walking on water?

 

The human being Jesus of Nazareth was written about by the Roman historian Josephus, and the Essene "Teacher of Righteousness" was written about in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

However on the Holy Bible attributes miracles to him. How many people did He witness to after His resurrection?

 

I'll be quite honest, I read the Bible and believe in its words, but there is a great deal of the Bible that is missing from its original version. Certain books were removed from the Bible over time by denominations so that the book's words would fit their denomination better, and they could use the Bible to manipulate people. You have no idea how much I would love to know what was really in the entirety of the original Bible. I've heard stories, and some of the things in it may be what people are looking for in terms of "proof" or answers.

 

Do you place equal validitity to all books in the Bible... such as the Books of Job and Jonah?

 

There were a couple of times when I have questioned the existence or intent of God. Once was four years ago when my cousin--who was also my best friend at the time-- died of leukemia. The other was about a year and a half ago after I had an ugly breakup with my girlfriend at that time. I won't get into specifics, but those things really changed my outlook on life. I realized that God is the only real thing in this world, and once I did, things just began to look up. I realized that God has a plan greater than you can even imagine.

 

Perhaps you should not have "questioned the existence or intent of your version of God", but instead what your version of God was.

 

I hope you guys find the answers you're looking for. Instead of looking at the Bible as proof of God's existence--since most of you seem to be skeptical of the Bible--just look at the things around you. None of it would have been possible without a "higher power" at work. That higher power is God, and He loves each and every one of us more than you can imagine. The least you can do to repay Him for His love is to believe in Him and to live your life according to His words. Dedicate your life to serving Him, and forget about worldly worries and doubts.

 

From the previous paragraph, you may still be searching for the purpose of life as set forth by God. I am very comfortable with my version of a supreme being and our purpose here on earth, I hope you find similar comfort in your beliefs.

[Sub-Husker]

The difference with Christianity is that God sent his only son to Earth to do 2 things:

 

Was that Adam, Melchizedek, or Yeshua?

 

All three are referenced in the Bible as sons of god.

[Sub-Husker]

What is the 'spiritual energy of the universe'?

 

I suggest that you look at the book The Inner Temple of Witchcraft by Christopher Penzak.

 

Looked at the title on Amazon. Sounds like a smorgasbord of woo. I'm more interested in a definition of the 'spiritual energy of the universe.'

 

I could not do it justice with a quick post, but I will think about it and try to make a coherent definition by tomorrow and post it. I had a busy day yesterday and will have another today and tomorrow morning.

[Sub-Husker]

Can anyone tell me what year we are in right now? Since I don't want to wait for a reply to get my point across, I'll just get on with it. If this reasoning works for you, then great. If not, then oh well.

 

We are in the year 2012.. AD. Which means Anno Domini, translated as "Year of our Lord" referring to the birth of Christ. Anytime before that was BC. Before Christ. If there was no Jesus Christ, why would people in the world number the years based upon when He was born? They wouldn't. The life and death of Christ was spelled out in the Bible, and though it has been revised and tampered with over time, the basic messages within it still exist.

 

This is 2012 CE.

 

Jesus of Nazareth was most likely born in the year 3 or 4 BCE.

 

The "Anno Domini" dating system was devised in 525 CE, but was not widely used until after 800 CE.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysius_Exiguus

[Sub-Husker]

I'm still not sure what some people would consider proof. The proof is around you each and every day. As far as proof about Jesus, I don't know what you want. A YouTube video showing him walking on water?

 

The human being Jesus of Nazareth was written about by the Roman historian Josephus, and the Essene "Teacher of Righteousness" was written about in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

However only the Holy Bible attributes miracles to him. How many people did He witness to after His resurrection?

 

I'll be quite honest, I read the Bible and believe in its words, but there is a great deal of the Bible that is missing from its original version. Certain books were removed from the Bible over time by denominations so that the book's words would fit their denomination better, and they could use the Bible to manipulate people. You have no idea how much I would love to know what was really in the entirety of the original Bible. I've heard stories, and some of the things in it may be what people are looking for in terms of "proof" or answers.

 

Do you place equal validitity to all books in the Bible... such as the Books of Job and Jonah?

 

There were a couple of times when I have questioned the existence or intent of God. Once was four years ago when my cousin--who was also my best friend at the time-- died of leukemia. The other was about a year and a half ago after I had an ugly breakup with my girlfriend at that time. I won't get into specifics, but those things really changed my outlook on life. I realized that God is the only real thing in this world, and once I did, things just began to look up. I realized that God has a plan greater than you can even imagine.

 

Perhaps you should not have "questioned the existence or intent of your version of God", but instead what your version of God was.

 

I hope you guys find the answers you're looking for. Instead of looking at the Bible as proof of God's existence--since most of you seem to be skeptical of the Bible--just look at the things around you. None of it would have been possible without a "higher power" at work. That higher power is God, and He loves each and every one of us more than you can imagine. The least you can do to repay Him for His love is to believe in Him and to live your life according to His words. Dedicate your life to serving Him, and forget about worldly worries and doubts.

 

From the previous paragraph, you may still be searching for the purpose of life as set forth by God. I am very comfortable with my version of a supreme being and our purpose here on earth, I hope you find similar comfort in your beliefs.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

Can anyone tell me what year we are in right now? Since I don't want to wait for a reply to get my point across, I'll just get on with it. If this reasoning works for you, then great. If not, then oh well.

 

We are in the year 2012.. AD. Which means Anno Domini, translated as "Year of our Lord" referring to the birth of Christ. Anytime before that was BC. Before Christ. If there was no Jesus Christ, why would people in the world number the years based upon when He was born? They wouldn't. The life and death of Christ was spelled out in the Bible, and though it has been revised and tampered with over time, the basic messages within it still exist.

 

Perhaps the AD and BC system were devised by a person who shares the same belief as you do. Does that make him or her any more right?

 

It's great that you are religious and that you have faith in a higher power and that you believe all these wonderful things. But you have to allow those who don't believe or who aren't religious or who don't have faith in a higher power hold their beliefs as well.

 

There's a quote that is perfectly applicable to this situation: "It's not God I have a problem with, it's His fan club that I can't stand."

[Husker_x]

What is the 'spiritual energy of the universe'?

 

I suggest that you look at the book The Inner Temple of Witchcraft by Christopher Penzak.

 

Looked at the title on Amazon. Sounds like a smorgasbord of woo. I'm more interested in a definition of the 'spiritual energy of the universe.'

 

I could not do it justice with a quick post, but I will think about it and try to make a coherent definition by tomorrow and post it. I had a busy day yesterday and will have another today and tomorrow morning.

 

Take your time. No hurry.

[carlfense]

Can anyone tell me what year we are in right now? Since I don't want to wait for a reply to get my point across, I'll just get on with it. If this reasoning works for you, then great. If not, then oh well.

 

We are in the year 2012.. AD. Which means Anno Domini, translated as "Year of our Lord" referring to the birth of Christ. Anytime before that was BC. Before Christ. If there was no Jesus Christ, why would people in the world number the years based upon when He was born? They wouldn't. The life and death of Christ was spelled out in the Bible, and though it has been revised and tampered with over time, the basic messages within it still exist.

Our dating system is a human construct. Not to mention that it's not the only option.

 

There are many different calendars.

 

You make some strange, strange, arguments. I'll give you a tip: just stick with "it's all about faith." Trying to prove the supernatural with scientific evidence will not work.

[The Dude]

I'm still not sure what some people would consider proof.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/proof

[HuskerShark]

I'm still not sure what some people would consider proof.

http://dictionary.re...om/browse/proof

 

Good one, but not what I meant.