The Religious Discussion of 2012

[carlfense]

Those people who proclaim BO a radical gave him the white house. If they vote 54 to 46 (Catholics) for the Pub nominee in 2012 the white house will be in Pubs hands again. So I don't know who is painting him a radical but they can paint the Romney, Santorum or Gingrich a radical all they want as long as they vote 54 to 46 for them, I would be happy.

The GOP's chances look worse by the day. We'll see.

[darkhorse85]

Well I'll be frank with you here. If you are basing laws off of any religion other than Christianity, then the laws are wrong.

Really? You're welcome to head to the Middle East if you'd like to live in a theocracy. The US is a secular nation.

 

"[T]he Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." You know who said that? The founding fathers.

 

 

I hope you have some evidence to back that statement up, I would like to read it.

 

 

 

The Treaty of Tripoli (Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary) was the first treaty concluded between the United States of America and Tripolitania, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796 and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.

 

The treaty was a routine diplomatic agreement but has attracted later attention because the English version included a clause about religion in America.

 

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

 

The treaty is cited as historical evidence in the modern day controversy over whether there was religious intent by the founders of the United States government. Article 11 of the treaty has been interpreted as an official denial of a Christian basis for the U.S. government.

 

----------------

 

There is also a wealth of writing on the personal beliefs of Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, and George Washington's in regard to the desist philosophy and general religious skepticism, which I'm sure you will carefully ignore.

 

I like the Jefferson Bible. I grew up a Lutheran but I just couldn't believe some of the stuff that takes place in the bible. He took anything that seemed supernatural out of it. Basically it was a condensed version that kept the teaching and morals of Jesus and made him seem more human than what the Bible would sometimes portray him as being.

[carlfense]

Also, jr20 . . . why no response to my evidence? Didn't like what it said so you disregarded it?

[carlfense]

Screw 'em isn't exactly how I would phrase it. Let me say it like this: All people and all things on this earth are creations of God. It's just that some have not found Him yet. America's biggest downfall is that we try to make this country so universal so that everybody is happy. That's just not how it works. Sorry if you disagree.

Don't worry . . . every other religion is just as convinced that they are right and that you are wrong. They have no more right to make you follow their beliefs than you do to make them follow your own.

 

You should get out and look around a bit. It's liberating.

[Sub-Husker]

By the way... the minister of my church is a female... she is getting married... to another woman... and she is also a practicing Wiccan.

 

What faith are you may I ask?

 

I belong to a Unitarian Universalist Fellowship.

 

I consider myself to be a desciple of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, and a practicioner of Earth-based Spirituality (aka Paganism... Shamanism, Wicca).

[johnnyrodgers20]

By the way... the minister of my church is a female... she is getting married... to another woman... and she is also a practicing Wiccan.

 

What faith are you may I ask?

 

I belong to a Unitarian Universalist Fellowship.

 

I consider myself to be a desciple of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, and a practicioner of Earth-based Spirituality (aka Paganism... Shamanism, Wicca).

 

 

You don't find any conflicts between wicca, (I believe is white witches, correct) paganism & the teachings of Jesus? Do you reject his teachings that he is the Son of God then?

[johnnyrodgers20]

Screw 'em isn't exactly how I would phrase it. Let me say it like this: All people and all things on this earth are creations of God. It's just that some have not found Him yet. America's biggest downfall is that we try to make this country so universal so that everybody is happy. That's just not how it works. Sorry if you disagree.

Don't worry . . . every other religion is just as convinced that they are right and that you are wrong. They have no more right to make you follow their beliefs than you do to make them follow your own.

 

You should get out and look around a bit. It's liberating.

 

 

I don't think he wants to make them follow his religion. No one can force you to believe in something. You can force them to say words but in their hearts if they do not believe them, they can not be forced.

[carlfense]

Screw 'em isn't exactly how I would phrase it. Let me say it like this: All people and all things on this earth are creations of God. It's just that some have not found Him yet. America's biggest downfall is that we try to make this country so universal so that everybody is happy. That's just not how it works. Sorry if you disagree.

Don't worry . . . every other religion is just as convinced that they are right and that you are wrong. They have no more right to make you follow their beliefs than you do to make them follow your own.

 

You should get out and look around a bit. It's liberating.

 

 

I don't think he wants to make them follow his religion. No one can force you to believe in something. You can force them to say words but in their hearts if they do not believe them, they can not be forced.

Go back and read what he said. He wants to base the laws on his religion so that everyone has to follow his religion. They wouldn't be forced to believe . . . but they would certainly be forced to act in accordance with his religion.

[HuskerShark]

Screw 'em isn't exactly how I would phrase it. Let me say it like this: All people and all things on this earth are creations of God. It's just that some have not found Him yet. America's biggest downfall is that we try to make this country so universal so that everybody is happy. That's just not how it works. Sorry if you disagree.

Don't worry . . . every other religion is just as convinced that they are right and that you are wrong. They have no more right to make you follow their beliefs than you do to make them follow your own.

 

You should get out and look around a bit. It's liberating.

 

No other religion has had proof that they are right about their beliefs like Christianity. God sent his only son to Earth so that he could die for our sins. What does that tell you? You're ignorant to believe in anything else.

[knapplc]

No other religion has had proof that they are right about their beliefs like Christianity. God sent his only son to Earth so that he could die for our sins. What does that tell you? You're ignorant to believe in anything else.

 

How deeply have you studied other religions? There are a lot of religions out there who have "proof" in the forms of ancient texts, eyewitness statements, etc.

[carlfense]

Screw 'em isn't exactly how I would phrase it. Let me say it like this: All people and all things on this earth are creations of God. It's just that some have not found Him yet. America's biggest downfall is that we try to make this country so universal so that everybody is happy. That's just not how it works. Sorry if you disagree.

Don't worry . . . every other religion is just as convinced that they are right and that you are wrong. They have no more right to make you follow their beliefs than you do to make them follow your own.

 

You should get out and look around a bit. It's liberating.

 

No other religion has had proof that they are right about their beliefs like Christianity. God sent his only son to Earth so that he could die for our sins. What does that tell you? You're ignorant to believe in anything else.

Whoa. What? And here I thought it was about faith. Apparently God has given us proof. That's nice . . . I'd been raised thinking that I needed faith . . . not facts . . . to be a Christian.

 

Your religion is the only true religion because your religion says it's the only true religion. Put the brakes on your circular logic. Honestly, I don't care what you choose to believe.

 

Personally, I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster because He built the Earth. That's proof that he is the one true God. "What does that tell you?" It tells you that anyone who doesn't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster is ignorant.

[darkhorse85]

Screw 'em isn't exactly how I would phrase it. Let me say it like this: All people and all things on this earth are creations of God. It's just that some have not found Him yet. America's biggest downfall is that we try to make this country so universal so that everybody is happy. That's just not how it works. Sorry if you disagree.

Don't worry . . . every other religion is just as convinced that they are right and that you are wrong. They have no more right to make you follow their beliefs than you do to make them follow your own.

 

You should get out and look around a bit. It's liberating.

 

No other religion has had proof that they are right about their beliefs like Christianity. God sent his only son to Earth so that he could die for our sins. What does that tell you? You're ignorant to believe in anything else.

 

Yeah, lets draw and quarter anyone that thinks otherwise! Heretics! All of you! Oh to be back in the dark ages when we lived in the shadow of the church and dared not question it for fear of persecution! I miss thee!

[Sub-Husker]

By the way... the minister of my church is a female... she is getting married... to another woman... and she is also a practicing Wiccan.

 

What faith are you may I ask?

 

I belong to a Unitarian Universalist Fellowship.

 

I consider myself to be a desciple of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, and a practicioner of Earth-based Spirituality (aka Paganism... Shamanism, Wicca).

 

You don't find any conflicts between wicca, (I believe is white witches, correct) paganism & the teachings of Jesus? Do you reject his teachings that he is the Son of God then?

 

Per Wicca, the correct term for a practicioners is witch (male and female). Spells are nothing more than prayers that harness the spiritual energy of the universe.

 

Paganism is defined as religious beliefs outside of standard Judaism, Christianity and Islam. They have roughly the same version of Yahweh/El, God the Father and Allah. I reject that description of Her (heh!).

 

I strive to follow the teachings of Jesus as best described in the three Synoptic Gospels.

 

I believe that Jesus was a child of god, as we are all... He was an enlightened soul with a strong spirit.

[strigori]

Screw 'em isn't exactly how I would phrase it. Let me say it like this: All people and all things on this earth are creations of God. It's just that some have not found Him yet. America's biggest downfall is that we try to make this country so universal so that everybody is happy. That's just not how it works. Sorry if you disagree.

Don't worry . . . every other religion is just as convinced that they are right and that you are wrong. They have no more right to make you follow their beliefs than you do to make them follow your own.

 

You should get out and look around a bit. It's liberating.

 

No other religion has had proof that they are right about their beliefs like Christianity. God sent his only son to Earth so that he could die for our sins. What does that tell you? You're ignorant to believe in anything else.

And where exactly is said evidence? The Bible sure is not it. You have a book that was asssembled in its current for around 600AD. And even then you have centuries old stories. Every religion has a book. Hell, the Greeks and Romans have books and stories much older than the Bible. And they even have statues. But I have not seen any Temples to Zues around here lately. Its all mythology.

[Enhance]

No other religion has had proof that they are right about their beliefs like Christianity. God sent his only son to Earth so that he could die for our sins. What does that tell you? You're ignorant to believe in anything else.

There's no "proof" that Jesus Christ was the son of God, any more-so than there's proof that he wasn't. Saying that believing in "anything else" makes you ignorant is destroying the entire Jewish faith - they don't believe Jesus Christ was the son of God.

 

This is the problem with Christianity, and all religion in general - nobody has concrete proof of anything. All anybody has is emotion and beliefs, and you can't reason with that. It's best to have faith in what you want and not talk about it.

 

Edit - Personally, I take a logical stance to religion. I don't think most of what happened in the Bible actually happened - it's mostly a story book designed to teach morals and ethics. I believe in a supreme power, but not one that sits in the sky and passes judgment on people, or sends his son to earth, or decides our fate, etc. I won't blindly put faith into that anymore than I'll blindly trust someone on Earth without reason to.