The Religious Discussion of 2012

[HuskerShark]

If you believe that as proof, does it prove that he was the son of god that could perform miracles, walk on water, rise from the dead?

 

Even the proof of supernatural ability doesn't necessarily prove the existence of god.

I don't think Jesus Christ was fake - I believe the person actually existed. As for him being the son of God, a being with supernatural powers, etc., I draw the line.

 

Believe what you want to believe. We will all find out sooner or later.

Why be involved in this discussion if you act like that?

 

"Oh, it'll all come to pass..." Many generations have lived, died, and killed others over this...we are waiting with baited breath.

 

Here's the problem. You want proof from a non-Christian source that Jesus lived, or at least some people did. So I post that article that has exactly that, and then you come along and say, "That's not good enough." I can live with Enhance's response, but even then I disagree. The accounts of Thallus and Phlegon from my post earlier noted that the earth got dark at the time of Jesus' crucifiction, which they refer to as supernatural, therefore verifying the validity of those words in the Bible.

 

As much as I would love for you to become a believer, sometimes it doesn't matter what you do. Some people refuse to believe even when everything that they are looking for is right in front of their face. So you do what you want. I'll pray for you.

[Hoosker]

If you believe that as proof, does it prove that he was the son of god that could perform miracles, walk on water, rise from the dead?

 

Even the proof of supernatural ability doesn't necessarily prove the existence of god.

I don't think Jesus Christ was fake - I believe the person actually existed. As for him being the son of God, a being with supernatural powers, etc., I draw the line.

 

Believe what you want to believe. We will all find out sooner or later.

Why be involved in this discussion if you act like that?

 

"Oh, it'll all come to pass..." Many generations have lived, died, and killed others over this...we are waiting with baited breath.

 

Here's the problem. You want proof from a non-Christian source that Jesus lived, or at least some people did. So I post that article that has exactly that, and then you come along and say, "That's not good enough." I can live with Enhance's response, but even then I disagree. The accounts of Thallus and Phlegon from my post earlier noted that the earth got dark at the time of Jesus' crucifiction, which they refer to as supernatural, therefore verifying the validity of those words in the Bible.

 

As much as I would love for you to become a believer, sometimes it doesn't matter what you do. Some people refuse to believe even when everything that they are looking for is right in front of their face. So you do what you want. I'll pray for you.

 

Never really understood the concept of prayer.

 

Suppose your prayers aren't answered.

What do you say?... "It's God's will" or "Thy will be done" or something along those lines.

Fine, but if it's God's will and he's going to do what he wants to regardless of what you ask him, then why pray to him in the first place?

 

Seems pretty pointless to me, other than to make yourself feel better.

[Enhance]

The problem for me comes down to the word 'faith', itself. I like to consider myself well-reasoned and intelligent. That doesn't mean there are Christians who aren't intelligent, or that all non-Christians are intelligent, however. I grew up in a Lutheran household, but as the years went by, I couldn't accept using 'faith' in something to describe why I believe it.

 

I just can't accept a glorified moral storybook as a rhyme and reason for my being, especially when there's no concrete evidence to suggest anything actually happened, or didn't happen.

 

This isn't discrediting my idea in a supreme being/entity/power, however. To me, there are just far too many contradictions. Our universe is larger than any of us can comprehend - how can we sit here and insinuate we are the only thinking beings, and thus the religion many follow is how things are? I honestly believe there are beings out there with thinking capabilities to match our own, and I find it highly improbable that they view life as religious people on Earth do.

[MLB 51]

The problem for me comes down to the word 'faith', itself. I like to consider myself well-reasoned and intelligent. That doesn't mean there are Christians who aren't intelligent, or that all non-Christians are intelligent, however. I grew up in a Lutheran household, but as the years went by, I couldn't accept using 'faith' in something to describe why I believe it.

 

I just can't accept a glorified moral storybook as a rhyme and reason for my being, especially when there's no concrete evidence to suggest anything actually happened, or didn't happen.

 

This isn't discrediting my idea in a supreme being/entity/power, however. To me, there are just far too many contradictions. Our universe is larger than any of us can comprehend - how can we sit here and insinuate we are the only thinking beings, and thus the religion many follow is how things are? I honestly believe there are beings out there with thinking capabilities to match our own, and I find it highly improbable that they view life as religious people on Earth do.

Excellent post. Faith is a hard thing to maintain sometimes. I have problems with it from time to time. Seeing all the injustice in the world is very trying.

[Hoosker]

The problem for me comes down to the word 'faith', itself. I like to consider myself well-reasoned and intelligent. That doesn't mean there are Christians who aren't intelligent, or that all non-Christians are intelligent, however. I grew up in a Lutheran household, but as the years went by, I couldn't accept using 'faith' in something to describe why I believe it.

 

I just can't accept a glorified moral storybook as a rhyme and reason for my being, especially when there's no concrete evidence to suggest anything actually happened, or didn't happen.

 

This isn't discrediting my idea in a supreme being/entity/power, however. To me, there are just far too many contradictions. Our universe is larger than any of us can comprehend - how can we sit here and insinuate we are the only thinking beings, and thus the religion many follow is how things are? I honestly believe there are beings out there with thinking capabilities to match our own, and I find it highly improbable that they view life as religious people on Earth do.

 

I agree with all of this. I too was raised Lutheran, but never truly accepted it.

I'm a realist above anything else. If I know something isn't real, my mind won't let me believe it. I'm too rational of a person to be sucked into something that I can't see, hear or feel.

 

It just comes off as cocky/arrogant when someone thinks/believes they have the answer to the great question(s) of why we're here/what happens when we die?

That's exactly why I believe in doubt. I don't know why we're here. If there was this all-powerful super being that made all this, I would assume it would respect my decision to be skeptical about why any of us exist.

 

I think it's the certainty that religion provides that is the biggest turnoff for me.

[Sub-Husker]

Let's give this another try. Here's something that I ran across that is more along the lines of what most of you would consider "concrete proof." Accounts from real people, some of which were skeptical of Christianity as a whole, who lived during the time of Jesus acknowledge the existence of Jesus, His greatness, the fact that the world went dark after His crucifiction, just as the Bible says.

 

What were you trying to prove?

 

I do not believe that anyone here has been denying that a mortal Jesus had existed 2,000 years ago. The Dead Sea Scrolls are an even better source than those you posted.

 

But what you posted proved nothing about a Jesus who was more supernatural than you or I.

 

Here's the problem. You want proof from a non-Christian source that Jesus lived, or at least some people did. So I post that article that has exactly that, and then you come along and say, "That's not good enough." I can live with Enhance's response, but even then I disagree. The accounts of Thallus and Phlegon from my post earlier noted that the earth got dark at the time of Jesus' crucifiction, which they refer to as supernatural, therefore verifying the validity of those words in the Bible.

 

As much as I would love for you to become a believer, sometimes it doesn't matter what you do. Some people refuse to believe even when everything that they are looking for is right in front of their face. So you do what you want. I'll pray for you.

 

Again, what are you trying to prove?

 

Yes, a mortal named Yeshua (Jesus) existed, and He was also known as the Teacher of Righteousness.

[Sub-Husker]

The problem for me comes down to the word 'faith', itself. I like to consider myself well-reasoned and intelligent. That doesn't mean there are Christians who aren't intelligent, or that all non-Christians are intelligent, however. I grew up in a Lutheran household, but as the years went by, I couldn't accept using 'faith' in something to describe why I believe it.

 

Having faith means believing in the unproven.

 

Being religious means that you have purchased someone else's "faith in a box".

 

I am not religious. Rather, I consider myself to be spiritual and inquisitive.

 

I have faith that there is some sort of a god.

[Sub-Husker]

Faith is a hard thing to maintain sometimes. I have problems with it from time to time. Seeing all the injustice in the world is very trying.

 

Why is that trying?

 

Unless you believe that there is some sort of organized supernatural attempt to make our existance here on earth... utopian.

[HuskerShark]

Let's give this another try. Here's something that I ran across that is more along the lines of what most of you would consider "concrete proof." Accounts from real people, some of which were skeptical of Christianity as a whole, who lived during the time of Jesus acknowledge the existence of Jesus, His greatness, the fact that the world went dark after His crucifiction, just as the Bible says.

 

What were you trying to prove?

 

I do not believe that anyone here has been denying that a mortal Jesus had existed 2,000 years ago. The Dead Sea Scrolls are an even better source than those you posted.

 

But what you posted proved nothing about a Jesus who was more supernatural than you or I.

 

Here's the problem. You want proof from a non-Christian source that Jesus lived, or at least some people did. So I post that article that has exactly that, and then you come along and say, "That's not good enough." I can live with Enhance's response, but even then I disagree. The accounts of Thallus and Phlegon from my post earlier noted that the earth got dark at the time of Jesus' crucifiction, which they refer to as supernatural, therefore verifying the validity of those words in the Bible.

 

As much as I would love for you to become a believer, sometimes it doesn't matter what you do. Some people refuse to believe even when everything that they are looking for is right in front of their face. So you do what you want. I'll pray for you.

 

Again, what are you trying to prove?

 

Yes, a mortal named Yeshua (Jesus) existed, and He was also known as the Teacher of Righteousness.

 

Well I can just about guarantee that when you die, the earth won't suddenly turn dark, and there won't be any tremors because of it either. But you guys are right, it's probably all coincidence.

 

Seriously, it was 2000 years ago. A couple of decades after Jesus' death, the Romans invaded Jerusalem and Isreal, which would have pretty much destroyed any archaelogical proof that Jesus existed. That's why Jesus himself said:

 

"Blessed are those who believe without seeing me."

[knapplc]

The Romans in the Levant predate Jesus' birth by a good 100 years. I think you're thinking of the Jewish revolt and subsequent reprisal by the Romans circa 70 AD, when Herod's temple was razed to the ground. The Roman reprisals were led by Vespasian and featured the famous Siege of Masada.

[It'sNotAFakeID]

This whole trying to prove religion is astonishingly ridiculous. You can't prove a religion just like you can't prove a lot of aspects of psychoanalytic theory. In fact, those two share a lot in common.

[johnnyrodgers20]

If you believe that as proof, does it prove that he was the son of god that could perform miracles, walk on water, rise from the dead?

 

Even the proof of supernatural ability doesn't necessarily prove the existence of god.

I don't think Jesus Christ was fake - I believe the person actually existed. As for him being the son of God, a being with supernatural powers, etc., I draw the line.

 

Believe what you want to believe. We will all find out sooner or later.

Why be involved in this discussion if you act like that?

 

"Oh, it'll all come to pass..." Many generations have lived, died, and killed others over this...we are waiting with baited breath.

 

Here's the problem. You want proof from a non-Christian source that Jesus lived, or at least some people did. So I post that article that has exactly that, and then you come along and say, "That's not good enough." I can live with Enhance's response, but even then I disagree. The accounts of Thallus and Phlegon from my post earlier noted that the earth got dark at the time of Jesus' crucifiction, which they refer to as supernatural, therefore verifying the validity of those words in the Bible.

 

As much as I would love for you to become a believer, sometimes it doesn't matter what you do. Some people refuse to believe even when everything that they are looking for is right in front of their face. So you do what you want. I'll pray for you.

 

Husker shark, you have to remember that there will come a time in the histroy of the world when believers will be very small in numbers. You will have the humanists who think that man is the height of wisdom and will give glory to their idols. And that any belief in God is unintelligent and will be scoffed at by the intellectual elitists. The only thing you can do is tell them the word of God so when they go before him he can say they were told and they rejected him.

[johnnyrodgers20]

The Romans in the Levant predate Jesus' birth by a good 100 years. I think you're thinking of the Jewish revolt and subsequent reprisal by the Romans circa 70 AD, when Herod's temple was razed to the ground. The Roman reprisals were led by Vespasian and featured the famous Siege of Masada.

 

how do you raise something if you are tearing it to the ground!?!??

[knapplc]

The raise/raze homophone is pretty funny.

[Sub-Husker]

Well I can just about guarantee that when you die, the earth won't suddenly turn dark, and there won't be any tremors because of it either. But you guys are right, it's probably all coincidence.

 

Do you have a non-Biblical source for that happening?

 

Seriously, it was 2000 years ago. A couple of decades after Jesus' death, the Romans invaded Jerusalem and Isreal, which would have pretty much destroyed any archaelogical proof that Jesus existed.

 

The Romans were more interested in putting down the latest rebellion by the latest savior, who was one of a great number of saviors of the Jewish people. Jesus did not get much mention.

 

That's why Jesus himself said:

"Blessed are those who believe without seeing me."

 

That was crap invented by John, which is why I stay with the synoptics.