Rodger Clemens

[Ziggy]

Does anyone else think this whole Rodger Clemens case is a waste of time and money or is it just me? It seems so silly to me to waste the time and effort to go after someone with such shotty evidence and over such a trival reason. The whole steriod in baseball issue in front of congress was laughable enough but this case is turning into a circus.

[Yossarian]

Does anyone else think this whole Rodger Clemens case is a waste of time and money or is it just me? It seems so silly to me to waste the time and effort to go after someone with such shotty evidence and over such a trival reason. The whole steriod in baseball issue in front of congress was laughable enough but this case is turning into a circus.

 

I am not a baseball nut in the sense that I have never really paid attention to box scores, except for the final score, and I have never charted box scores like some people do as they watch a game. Still, having grown up in decades when baseball was still the "national pastime" I fully understand the position of baseball nutjobs when they believe that Roger Clemens and others using steroids have tainted the game forever. Baseball is built on statistics, and you used to be able to compare the performances of everyone playing baseball in the "modern era" (after the actuall baseball was made more "lively") - whether they played in the 1940s, 1950s, or 1980s. Everyone was on a level playing field (well, maybe Preacher Roe had an illegal advantage) and the statistics were considered as sacrosanct, were trusted, and were not to be screwed around with. The use of steroids changed all of that - the statistics are no longer to be trusted - and someone has to pay for the damage. Think about Roger Clemons's record being compared to Bob Gibson's. You can't compare them because Clemons's performance was enhanced by drugs. Now, as far as Congress getting involved - I have no problem with that. I'm not sure how anything could turn Congress into more of a circus.

[Comish]

The winning percentage of this Justice Department is worse than Billy C...........

[Ziggy]

The steriod era was an embarassment, I agree 100%. And as of today Rodger Clemens is 100% innocent of any wrong doing. Do I care if he is found guilty or not, not really. But I think this whole case is stupid top to bottom. Let the police or DEA deal with people breaking drug. And all of baseball is at fault from the players to the mangers all the way to Bud Selig.

[Yossarian]

The steriod era was an embarassment, I agree 100%. And as of today Rodger Clemens is 100% innocent of any wrong doing. Do I care if he is found guilty or not, not really. But I think this whole case is stupid top to bottom. Let the police or DEA deal with people breaking drug. And all of baseball is at fault from the players to the mangers all the way to Bud Selig.

 

You don't have to be 100 percent innocent of all wrong-doing to be punished in professional sports. Pete Rose was not found guilty of anything, but he accepted banishment from baseball for betting on games. Same problem - he tainted the outcome of games.

[Count 'Bility]

Steroid era was an embarrassment. But baseball and any other sactioning body of any other sport with the same issue is just as much at fault as the takers themselves. There is absolutely no excuse for it to take as long as it did to effectively address this issue. That is the embarrassment. yes, the clemens case is a total waste of time. If he lied to congress so be it. fine his ass and get back to addressing actuall issues, like people eating faces off.

[Yossarian]

Steroid era was an embarrassment. But baseball and any other sactioning body of any other sport with the same issue is just as much at fault as the takers themselves. There is absolutely no excuse for it to take as long as it did to effectively address this issue. That is the embarrassment. yes, the clemens case is a total waste of time. If he lied to congress so be it. fine his ass and get back to addressing actuall issues, like people eating faces off.

 

Eating faces is a Federal crime now? I thought it was a mis-demeanor.

 

I do not believe baseball is at fault as much as the "takers themselves."

[Ziggy]

The steriod era was an embarassment, I agree 100%. And as of today Rodger Clemens is 100% innocent of any wrong doing. Do I care if he is found guilty or not, not really. But I think this whole case is stupid top to bottom. Let the police or DEA deal with people breaking drug. And all of baseball is at fault from the players to the mangers all the way to Bud Selig.

 

You don't have to be 100 percent innocent of all wrong-doing to be punished in professional sports. Pete Rose was not found guilty of anything, but he accepted banishment from baseball for betting on games. Same problem - he tainted the outcome of games.

 

I was speaking more legally than in guilty in the public eye. And do you really think betting on your own team to win is the same as taking steriods? Plus Roger Clemens was retired when this all came out and was supposedly part of a much larger problem that professional baseball knew was going on and did little to nothing to stop it. I personally think the leadership is more to blame for not nipping it in the butt when they could have. Testing for steriods and other PEDs was possible almost the whole time the steriod era was happening.

[Yossarian]

And do you really think betting on your own team to win is the same as taking steriods?

 

Ah, and that's the problem with betting on the game that you are playing in. Pete Rose swore for years that he did not bet on games he was playing in. None. Didn't happen. Never. Then he changed his story, admitted that he lied, and then swore that he only bet on his team to win. And maybe that is why professional sports frown on players betting on games - and particularly those that they play in. And maybe that is why he is a liar and probably a cheat. So, yeah, I think that betting on your own team (win or lose) is as bad as taking steroids.

[Ziggy]

I believe he was betting while he was managing not playing, not that its a major difference. But I still think the Rose ban is excessive and he deserved to be in the HOF as a player at the very least.

[MLB 51]

I believe he was betting while he was managing not playing, not that its a major difference. But I still think the Rose ban is excessive and he deserved to be in the HOF as a player at the very least.

+1 Ziggy. He was told if he admitted to what he did they would lift the ban. Still waiting for them lift the ban.

[MLB 51]

Does anyone else think this whole Rodger Clemens case is a waste of time and money or is it just me? It seems so silly to me to waste the time and effort to go after someone with such shotty evidence and over such a trival reason. The whole steriod in baseball issue in front of congress was laughable enough but this case is turning into a circus.

+1'd this too. Congress should have learned their lesson in the Bonds case. Everybody and their brother knew Bonds cheated. Utterly complete waste of time and taxpayer money!

[Yossarian]

I believe he was betting while he was managing not playing, not that its a major difference.

 

Yeah, it is different. It's worse. A manager makes many more decisions that affect the game.

[krc1995]

I believe he was betting while he was managing not playing, not that its a major difference. But I still think the Rose ban is excessive and he deserved to be in the HOF as a player at the very least.

and he never bet his team to lose.

[Yossarian]

I believe he was betting while he was managing not playing, not that its a major difference. But I still think the Rose ban is excessive and he deserved to be in the HOF as a player at the very least.

and he never bet his team to lose.

 

Why would anyone believe him after he lied for years swearing that he had never bet on his team to win or to lose? Now all of a sudden he tells the truth all of the time. He's a liar. Great baseball player, but a liar who broke the rules. But that's often the case with great athletes - they consider themselves above the rules. Now he's paying for it.