The AWOL Romney Tax Returns - what's the holdup?

[Comish]

And, (not that I really should have to explain this again), but somehow you have gotten the impression that I am Fox 24/7.

 

How about you quote where I said that. Heck, just show where I've implied this.

You've implied numerous times that anything I've articulated is from being brainwashed by Fox.

 

Really, we've probably run this string out as far as needed. Just wanted to clear the air that I'm not some Fox-robotic. (but even if I were, I wouldn't feel a need to apologize......free country and all you know.....)

[knapplc]

Cool enough. Let's move on.

[Comish]

[knapplc]

All's well that ends well. Cheers!

[JJ Husker]

 

why should you not have to explain how investing in stocks is good for our economy?

the stock market is a scam. it is not based on the value of a company or its production. it is based on speculation and artificial forces.

 

when oil companies do operate at a loss, they get to write that off. that is the incentive. you either profit or write-off your loses.

 

are most hospitals not public or non-profit? and if it is private, usually it is insanely profitable.

 

Just a little note of clarification about "writing off" losses. I am guessing that many of you have heard this term numerous times but have never had the opportunity to "write off" a loss. Let me tell you how that works, because unfortunately I know something about it, my business has experienced losses (no profits) both of the last 2 years. There is no "write off". There is no benefit whatsoever that I can see. The losses in my business come directly out of my business and/or personal monies (savings, retirement, whereever I can find to pull money from to keep the company operating. Sure, I didn't get taxed on the non-existant profit but that is not a benefit anyone else does not enjoy. Think of it like your $75K per year job all of sudden pays you $0 per year. That is the same way it works with my business. There is no "write off" or hidden benefit. It is simply less or no income. The mystical "write off" is just that, it doesn't exist.

 

And, anyone who thinks that situation does not get passed on in the form of fewer jobs for others is fooling themselves. When we are losing money or not profiting, everything gets tightened up. We do not hire (in fact we cut back hours and possibly lay people off) and we cut back on all expenses that we can. Those things take money out of the economy. You aren't thinking too hard if you really think higher income people, who are in control of companies, do not create jobs or grease the wheels of the economy with extra money they have that is not being taxed. The goal for rich people is to make themselves richer. You don't get richer by burying money in the backyard. You have to invest it and get it working for you to make more. It is disengenious and flat out wrong to say that rich people do not use their spare money in a way that benefits the economy. What helps more; 20 low income persons buying a couple hundred dollars more of groceries or a higher income person investing in a $1M dollar building and hiring 20 more workers?

[AR Husker Fan]

 

why should you not have to explain how investing in stocks is good for our economy?

the stock market is a scam. it is not based on the value of a company or its production. it is based on speculation and artificial forces.

 

when oil companies do operate at a loss, they get to write that off. that is the incentive. you either profit or write-off your loses.

 

are most hospitals not public or non-profit? and if it is private, usually it is insanely profitable.

 

Just a little note of clarification about "writing off" losses. I am guessing that many of you have heard this term numerous times but have never had the opportunity to "write off" a loss. Let me tell you how that works, because unfortunately I know something about it, my business has experienced losses (no profits) both of the last 2 years. There is no "write off". There is no benefit whatsoever that I can see. The losses in my business come directly out of my business and/or personal monies (savings, retirement, whereever I can find to pull money from to keep the company operating. Sure, I didn't get taxed on the non-existant profit but that is not a benefit anyone else does not enjoy. Think of it like your $75K per year job all of sudden pays you $0 per year. That is the same way it works with my business. There is no "write off" or hidden benefit. It is simply less or no income. The mystical "write off" is just that, it doesn't exist.

 

And, anyone who thinks that situation does not get passed on in the form of fewer jobs for others is fooling themselves. When we are losing money or not profiting, everything gets tightened up. We do not hire (in fact we cut back hours and possibly lay people off) and we cut back on all expenses that we can. Those things take money out of the economy. You aren't thinking too hard if you really think higher income people, who are in control of companies, do not create jobs or grease the wheels of the economy with extra money they have that is not being taxed. The goal for rich people is to make themselves richer. You don't get richer by burying money in the backyard. You have to invest it and get it working for you to make more. It is disengenious and flat out wrong to say that rich people do not use their spare money in a way that benefits the economy. What helps more; 20 low income persons buying a couple hundred dollars more of groceries or a higher income person investing in a $1M dollar building and hiring 20 more workers?

You're overlooking the most essential part of the equation, though. The wealthy won't spend that money unless and until there is a perceived demand for the goods or services that building or those workers will produce. No demand - no investment. Yes, people will invest without a guarantee of a profit - but they do so because they percieve a demand.

 

Demand is not driven by the wealthy - a tax break for them doesn't mean much because they already have the descretionary income or resources to keep buying. Demand comes when the middle class and the poor have discretionary income. Until that happens, no demand, no investment.

 

Another way to look at it is this - the theory that tax breaks to the wealthy generates jobs has failed under every administration that has taken that tact, going back to Reagan. Look at job numbers, look at deficits verses surpluses - the metric you use doesn't matter. A healthy economy is created when the middle class in particular are given significant - not token - tax breaks. And increasing the taxes for the wealthy during those times has never slowed or stalled the economy. Instead, they invest becase the demand is there, and they know that if they can meet that demand they can generate their profits.

 

What is being espoused by the Republican party and the "job creators" is simply yet another iteration of "trickle-down" economics. Never has worked, and never will.

[krill]

I can't dispute your main points JJHusker1, but ultimately in Romney's case, is carrying forward losses on investments in a trust fund, using offshore banks, investing in million dollar dressage horses, etc. the beating heart of our economy? Or is it people like you trying to run a small businesses, which if I'm not mistaken, in good years your tax rate would be much higher than than someone like Romney who derives his income from capital gains. How would you feel about him paying zero income tax under Paul Ryan's plan?

[sd'sker]

 

why should you not have to explain how investing in stocks is good for our economy?

the stock market is a scam. it is not based on the value of a company or its production. it is based on speculation and artificial forces.

 

when oil companies do operate at a loss, they get to write that off. that is the incentive. you either profit or write-off your loses.

 

are most hospitals not public or non-profit? and if it is private, usually it is insanely profitable.

 

Just a little note of clarification about "writing off" losses. I am guessing that many of you have heard this term numerous times but have never had the opportunity to "write off" a loss. Let me tell you how that works, because unfortunately I know something about it, my business has experienced losses (no profits) both of the last 2 years. There is no "write off". There is no benefit whatsoever that I can see. The losses in my business come directly out of my business and/or personal monies (savings, retirement, whereever I can find to pull money from to keep the company operating. Sure, I didn't get taxed on the non-existant profit but that is not a benefit anyone else does not enjoy. Think of it like your $75K per year job all of sudden pays you $0 per year. That is the same way it works with my business. There is no "write off" or hidden benefit. It is simply less or no income. The mystical "write off" is just that, it doesn't exist.

 

And, anyone who thinks that situation does not get passed on in the form of fewer jobs for others is fooling themselves. When we are losing money or not profiting, everything gets tightened up. We do not hire (in fact we cut back hours and possibly lay people off) and we cut back on all expenses that we can. Those things take money out of the economy. You aren't thinking too hard if you really think higher income people, who are in control of companies, do not create jobs or grease the wheels of the economy with extra money they have that is not being taxed. The goal for rich people is to make themselves richer. You don't get richer by burying money in the backyard. You have to invest it and get it working for you to make more. It is disengenious and flat out wrong to say that rich people do not use their spare money in a way that benefits the economy. What helps more; 20 low income persons buying a couple hundred dollars more of groceries or a higher income person investing in a $1M dollar building and hiring 20 more workers?

ar addressed your second part pretty well.

as for your first, that was my point though. you are only taxed on what you earn. if you have enough money, you can get big deductions for losses, but still make a lot of money.

[carlfense]

I can't dispute your main points JJHusker1, but ultimately in Romney's case, is carrying forward losses on investments in a trust fund, using offshore banks, investing in million dollar dressage horses, etc. the beating heart of our economy? Or is it people like you trying to run a small businesses, which if I'm not mistaken, in good years your tax rate would be much higher than than someone like Romney who derives his income from capital gains. How would you feel about him paying zero income tax under Paul Ryan's plan?

And there's the difference. The GOP likes to conflate the experiences of a typical small business owner like JJ with the tax dodging of plutocrats like Romney. The two aren't particularly similar. I doubt JJ (or anyone else on HB) has ever written off $75,000 in "business losses" for their hobby. That's not really available to the average joe.

[sd'sker]

Can we stand back and pause a short minute to take in the spectacle of a man who wants to be President of The United States, who wants us to seriously regard him as a paragon of the American civic ideal, declaiming proudly and in public that he has paid his taxes at a third of the rate normally associated with gentlemen of his economic benefit.

--david simon, creator of 'the wire' and 'treme' ('the wire' is the greatest piece of entertainment to ever grace humanity).

 

Mitt Romney paid taxes at a rate of at least 13 percent. And he’s proud to say so.

[sd'sker]

i can not post a picture of the graph for some reason, so i encourage to use the link and check out the whole story.

 

The Tax Policy Center, a respected nonpartisan group, made Mitt Romney's life a little more difficult two weeks ago, publishing a detailed analysis of the Republican's tax plan. The findings were brutal: sticking to Romney's own parameters, the Republican intends to raise taxes on 95% of the country in order to finance tax breaks for the rich.

link

 

taxes seem to be the big issue (and now medicare). does romney want to win the presidency just to protect his tax breaks?

[carlfense]

i can not post a picture of the graph for some reason, so i encourage to use the link and check out the whole story.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/08/17/13333894-tax-policy-center-responds-to-garbage-comment#.UC5HQOo3qEU.reddit

[sd'sker]

i can not post a picture of the graph for some reason, so i encourage to use the link and check out the whole story.

http://maddowblog.ms...HQOo3qEU.reddit

well done. (witchcraft?)

[carlfense]

well done. (witchcraft?)

I wish.

[knapplc]

Did you just quote Rachel Maddow facts & figures?

 

Here we go....