Odd's that the teachers strike is over by this weekend?

[HSKR]

http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/17/news/economy/chicago-teachers-strike-jobs-report/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

If not the teachers striking could go against unemployment numbers. I'm guessing Obama is having a few words with Rahm this week.

[knapplc]

Anyone trying to capitalize on that will look like a fool. Everyone will already know where the percentage related to the teacher's strike fits in, so howling about "we've lost more jawbs!!!" won't resonate with anyone.

[Moiraine]

It's hard to decide how I feel about this. As an education major I cringe every time I hear a politician speak about it because they either don't have a clue what they're talking about or they dumb everything down until it sounds good.

 

For example, they'll say something like "these teachers just don't want to be held accountable and the children are suffering." Talking about suffering children is always good. Then they leave out the fact that holding teachers accountable using standardized testing and ignoring other influences on those children is ridiculous. It's been shown that as early as two years old, having poor parents puts a child at a learning disadvantage.

 

Another ridiculous thing is that we're holding them accountable when they aren't paid well in the first place. I'm talking in general here though, not Chicago. We're expecting people who went into teaching knowing full well they wouldn't make much money to be excellent teachers. Sorry, but not very many people who are capable of being excellent will choose to go into the teaching profession as long as the payment is so crappy. That's part of the reason it's so easy to get teaching degrees in most subjects. They have to keep the standards low so that less qualified people can get degrees.

 

The teachers who are striking probably don't deserve more pay but I believe it needs to be increased if we're going to have high standards and accountability and attract better people.

[Ziggy]

It's hard to decide how I feel about this. As an education major I cringe every time I hear a politician speak about it because they either don't have a clue what they're talking about or they dumb everything down until it sounds good.

 

For example, they'll say something like "these teachers just don't want to be held accountable and the children are suffering." Talking about suffering children is always good. Then they leave out the fact that holding teachers accountable using standardized testing and ignoring other influences on those children is ridiculous. It's been shown that as early as two years old, having poor parents puts a child at a learning disadvantage.

 

Another ridiculous thing is that we're holding them accountable when they aren't paid well in the first place. I'm talking in general here though, not Chicago. We're expecting people who went into teaching knowing full well they wouldn't make much money to be excellent teachers. Sorry, but not very many people who are capable of being excellent will choose to go into the teaching profession as long as the payment is so crappy. That's part of the reason it's so easy to get teaching degrees in most subjects. They have to keep the standards low so that less qualified people can get degrees.

 

The teachers who are striking probably don't deserve more pay but I believe it needs to be increased if we're going to have high standards and accountability and attract better people.

 

I will grant that some teachers are not paid well enough, but I also know that quite a few get paid very well for working 9 months of the year, with pretty much every major holiday off, and plenty of "planning days". Don't get me wrong teachers are very important to our society and should be paid for their work, but if you never give them the incentive to work harder, they will never strive to achieve more. If the best teachers got merit pay and made upwards of $80,000 i doubt we would have the shortage of good teachers we have now. As long as unions prevent competition in salary we will continue to lose our educational standing in the world.

[Lil' Red]

The strike has officially ended.

 

Link

[sd'sker]

It's hard to decide how I feel about this. As an education major I cringe every time I hear a politician speak about it because they either don't have a clue what they're talking about or they dumb everything down until it sounds good.

 

For example, they'll say something like "these teachers just don't want to be held accountable and the children are suffering." Talking about suffering children is always good. Then they leave out the fact that holding teachers accountable using standardized testing and ignoring other influences on those children is ridiculous. It's been shown that as early as two years old, having poor parents puts a child at a learning disadvantage.

 

Another ridiculous thing is that we're holding them accountable when they aren't paid well in the first place. I'm talking in general here though, not Chicago. We're expecting people who went into teaching knowing full well they wouldn't make much money to be excellent teachers. Sorry, but not very many people who are capable of being excellent will choose to go into the teaching profession as long as the payment is so crappy. That's part of the reason it's so easy to get teaching degrees in most subjects. They have to keep the standards low so that less qualified people can get degrees.

 

The teachers who are striking probably don't deserve more pay but I believe it needs to be increased if we're going to have high standards and accountability and attract better people.

 

I will grant that some teachers are not paid well enough, but I also know that quite a few get paid very well for working 9 months of the year, with pretty much every major holiday off, and plenty of "planning days". Don't get me wrong teachers are very important to our society and should be paid for their work, but if you never give them the incentive to work harder, they will never strive to achieve more. If the best teachers got merit pay and made upwards of $80,000 i doubt we would have the shortage of good teachers we have now. As long as unions prevent competition in salary we will continue to lose our educational standing in the world.

this is condescending. this mba attitude toward everything is ridiculous. can a teacher not just teach because it is a calling, their vocation?

matt damon says it better:

[Ziggy]

It's hard to decide how I feel about this. As an education major I cringe every time I hear a politician speak about it because they either don't have a clue what they're talking about or they dumb everything down until it sounds good.

 

For example, they'll say something like "these teachers just don't want to be held accountable and the children are suffering." Talking about suffering children is always good. Then they leave out the fact that holding teachers accountable using standardized testing and ignoring other influences on those children is ridiculous. It's been shown that as early as two years old, having poor parents puts a child at a learning disadvantage.

 

Another ridiculous thing is that we're holding them accountable when they aren't paid well in the first place. I'm talking in general here though, not Chicago. We're expecting people who went into teaching knowing full well they wouldn't make much money to be excellent teachers. Sorry, but not very many people who are capable of being excellent will choose to go into the teaching profession as long as the payment is so crappy. That's part of the reason it's so easy to get teaching degrees in most subjects. They have to keep the standards low so that less qualified people can get degrees.

 

The teachers who are striking probably don't deserve more pay but I believe it needs to be increased if we're going to have high standards and accountability and attract better people.

 

I will grant that some teachers are not paid well enough, but I also know that quite a few get paid very well for working 9 months of the year, with pretty much every major holiday off, and plenty of "planning days". Don't get me wrong teachers are very important to our society and should be paid for their work, but if you never give them the incentive to work harder, they will never strive to achieve more. If the best teachers got merit pay and made upwards of $80,000 i doubt we would have the shortage of good teachers we have now. As long as unions prevent competition in salary we will continue to lose our educational standing in the world.

this is condescending. this mba attitude toward everything is ridiculous. can a teacher not just teach because it is a calling, their vocation?

 

How is it condescending? If a teacher is doing it because its a calling, then do they care how much they get paid? But if a person takes a job, they sure as sh#t better do the job they are hired to do. Why should a teacher be paid $35,000 for doing an excellent job for 5 years, and another is paid the same while doing a horrible job. How is that FAIR? Excellent teachers should get raises, while under performing teachers get COL raises. And piss poor teachers get fired. The children are far more important to me than the feelings of a teacher.

 

Matt Damon, really? IDK what he says.

[strigori]

It's hard to decide how I feel about this. As an education major I cringe every time I hear a politician speak about it because they either don't have a clue what they're talking about or they dumb everything down until it sounds good.

 

For example, they'll say something like "these teachers just don't want to be held accountable and the children are suffering." Talking about suffering children is always good. Then they leave out the fact that holding teachers accountable using standardized testing and ignoring other influences on those children is ridiculous. It's been shown that as early as two years old, having poor parents puts a child at a learning disadvantage.

 

Another ridiculous thing is that we're holding them accountable when they aren't paid well in the first place. I'm talking in general here though, not Chicago. We're expecting people who went into teaching knowing full well they wouldn't make much money to be excellent teachers. Sorry, but not very many people who are capable of being excellent will choose to go into the teaching profession as long as the payment is so crappy. That's part of the reason it's so easy to get teaching degrees in most subjects. They have to keep the standards low so that less qualified people can get degrees.

 

The teachers who are striking probably don't deserve more pay but I believe it needs to be increased if we're going to have high standards and accountability and attract better people.

 

I will grant that some teachers are not paid well enough, but I also know that quite a few get paid very well for working 9 months of the year, with pretty much every major holiday off, and plenty of "planning days". Don't get me wrong teachers are very important to our society and should be paid for their work, but if you never give them the incentive to work harder, they will never strive to achieve more. If the best teachers got merit pay and made upwards of $80,000 i doubt we would have the shortage of good teachers we have now. As long as unions prevent competition in salary we will continue to lose our educational standing in the world.

this is condescending. this mba attitude toward everything is ridiculous. can a teacher not just teach because it is a calling, their vocation?

 

How is it condescending? If a teacher is doing it because its a calling, then do they care how much they get paid? But if a person takes a job, they sure as sh#t better do the job they are hired to do. Why should a teacher be paid $35,000 for doing an excellent job for 5 years, and another is paid the same while doing a horrible job. How is that FAIR? Excellent teachers should get raises, while under performing teachers get COL raises. And piss poor teachers get fired. The children are far more important to me than the feelings of a teacher.

 

Matt Damon, really? IDK what he says.

And how are you going to quantify 'excellent'? Standardized testing is a joke. Standardized is great when you are talking about connections on your electronics, on many to most other things, its part of the problem. Like the mba comment moiraine mentioned. The spreadsheet has been the most diabolical invention of the last century. The constant need to break everything down to 'hard data' to put on a spreadsheet is just stupid. Not everything can be easily judged as a 'success' based on simple numbers.

 

At best what you get from standardized tests is teaching to the test, and 'cramming' which teaches nothing.

 

And cut the crap on the 9 months things. The school year was set up originally when we were an agrarian society and the kids when and worked the family farm for the summer. Some areas of the country have moved to year round school, and other areas, like Nebraska, wont see it. And it has nothing to do with farming. Most of the schools are old buildings, that were designed with the expectation they would be vacant during the summer months. Hence, no AC. And like last July, Nebraska gets hot during the summer. And I would love to see guys like you scream bloody murder if the school board came to the community and asked for the millions and millions of dollars to retrofit all the buildings with AC. That kind of cost barrier would be a road block to year round school. So get off that horse.

 

Sure teachers are opposed to it, many use the time off for more school, or more often than not, summer jobs so they can make a little more money. Often which gets used to offset supplies they paid for out of their own pocket for their class.

[sd'sker]

It's hard to decide how I feel about this. As an education major I cringe every time I hear a politician speak about it because they either don't have a clue what they're talking about or they dumb everything down until it sounds good.

 

For example, they'll say something like "these teachers just don't want to be held accountable and the children are suffering." Talking about suffering children is always good. Then they leave out the fact that holding teachers accountable using standardized testing and ignoring other influences on those children is ridiculous. It's been shown that as early as two years old, having poor parents puts a child at a learning disadvantage.

 

Another ridiculous thing is that we're holding them accountable when they aren't paid well in the first place. I'm talking in general here though, not Chicago. We're expecting people who went into teaching knowing full well they wouldn't make much money to be excellent teachers. Sorry, but not very many people who are capable of being excellent will choose to go into the teaching profession as long as the payment is so crappy. That's part of the reason it's so easy to get teaching degrees in most subjects. They have to keep the standards low so that less qualified people can get degrees.

 

The teachers who are striking probably don't deserve more pay but I believe it needs to be increased if we're going to have high standards and accountability and attract better people.

 

I will grant that some teachers are not paid well enough, but I also know that quite a few get paid very well for working 9 months of the year, with pretty much every major holiday off, and plenty of "planning days". Don't get me wrong teachers are very important to our society and should be paid for their work, but if you never give them the incentive to work harder, they will never strive to achieve more. If the best teachers got merit pay and made upwards of $80,000 i doubt we would have the shortage of good teachers we have now. As long as unions prevent competition in salary we will continue to lose our educational standing in the world.

this is condescending. this mba attitude toward everything is ridiculous. can a teacher not just teach because it is a calling, their vocation?

 

How is it condescending? If a teacher is doing it because its a calling, then do they care how much they get paid? But if a person takes a job, they sure as sh#t better do the job they are hired to do. Why should a teacher be paid $35,000 for doing an excellent job for 5 years, and another is paid the same while doing a horrible job. How is that FAIR? Excellent teachers should get raises, while under performing teachers get COL raises. And piss poor teachers get fired. The children are far more important to me than the feelings of a teacher.

 

Matt Damon, really? IDK what he says.

ok. why do you think they are not doing the job they are hired to do? i posted a video of matt damon defending tenure against similar sentiments you were making. i though i would share instead of trying to just replicate his point. the point is, they deserve a fair wage and everything does not have to be incentive based. hire good teachers, pay them good wages, make sure their schools are well-funded. that is what should be done, but it is even more complicated than that because even under the best conditions you are still dealing with a volatile variable, the children themselves and the families they come from. and this problem runs across the socioeconomic spectrum.

[Ziggy]

Because no other job has ways to determine if an employee is doing his or her job. Weak argument for someone who doesn't want to have to prove they are doing their jobs. And I actually agree about standardized tests. And the 9 month year is a valid argument. I sure as hell would like to be off on weekends, holidays, summer, winter, fall break and spring break. Like I said before I respect teachers, they do a tough job but its a job they are being paid for. If you wanna complain about salary you need to prove why you deserve a raise, not leave your class room and force students to miss school.

[sd'sker]

Because no other job has ways to determine if an employee is doing his or her job. Weak argument for someone who doesn't want to have to prove they are doing their jobs. And I actually agree about standardized tests. And the 9 month year is a valid argument. I sure as hell would like to be off on weekends, holidays, summer, winter, fall break and spring break. Like I said before I respect teachers, they do a tough job but its a job they are being paid for. If you wanna complain about salary you need to prove why you deserve a raise, not leave your class room and force students to miss school.

you should have become a teacher.

 

i do not understand your first sentence. and you last sentence, how do you prove you are doing your job? and why should teachers not have equal bargaining power and leverage when negotiating their pay and conditions?