Voter Fraud

[sd'sker]

So how many voters, exactly, will be disenfranchised by this?

more than than those committing fraud. how many voters, exactly, would be too many? how many voters, exactly, have committed fraud?

 

 

Over 750,000 Pennsylvanians Could Be Disenfranchised By Voter ID Law

 

Instances of voter fraud may be rarer than lightning strikes, but in Pennsylvania more than 758,000 voters may be disenfranchised this election season because lawmakers insist on solving the “problem” of voter fraud. Pennslyvania’s new voter ID law, which will take effect for the first time this November, may prevent 758,939 otherwise eligible voters, who do not currently have an acceptable ID, from voting.

[sd'sker]

I'll care about voter fraud as soon as there is evidence that it's a problem.

So at what level does something become a problem? We haven't executed many people for treason lately so maybe we shouldn't worry about enforcing those laws either.

fraud is illegal. the laws should be enforced, but not by overburdening marginalized voters.

 

you example would be more apt if the gov't started wiretapping all american's foreign conversations under the guise of treason prevention.

[carlfense]

So at what level does something become a problem?

I'd say that it's a problem when we have a ratio significantly larger than this:

Analysis of the resulting comprehensive News21 election fraud database turned up 10 cases of voter impersonation. With 146 million registered voters in the United States during that time, those 10 cases represent one out of about every 15 million prospective voters.

Do you see a significant problem there? If so . . . is it the 1/15,000,000 or do you have a feeling in your gut that it's a problem? (Perspective: a person is 3 times more likely to win a million dollars playing Powerball.)

 

 

We haven't executed many people for treason lately so maybe we shouldn't worry about enforcing those laws either.

Good point. We should enact anti-treason legislation that would make voting more difficult for large numbers of citizens (who might vote for someone who is not a Republican) only weeks before an election. I mean . . . why wouldn't we do that? Even though we have no evidence that treason is a problem we shouldn't let that stop us from enacting barriers to voting.

[carlfense]

Sounds like there will be a timely story out of Council Bluffs on this topic...

 

 

[Mavric]

Can someone explain to me how acquiring a photo ID is more onerous that registering to vote?

[Mavric]

So how many voters, exactly, will be disenfranchised by this?

more than than those committing fraud. how many voters, exactly, would be too many? how many voters, exactly, have committed fraud?

So you have no idea how many it would be but it would definitely be too many.

[carlfense]

Can someone explain to me how acquiring a photo ID is more onerous that registering to vote?

You can register to vote by mail or in some places you can register at your polling place on the day of election.

 

Additionally there is the poll tax element when a state makes the recipient pay for a photo ID.

[carlfense]

So how many voters, exactly, will be disenfranchised by this?

more than than those committing fraud. how many voters, exactly, would be too many? how many voters, exactly, have committed fraud?

So you have no idea how many it would be but it would definitely be too many.

It looks like you're trying to draw a false equivalency.

 

It's impossible to say how many people will be disenfranchised by this because that will happen in the future.

 

It is possible to determine the extent of voter fraud because that happened in the past.

 

If you're building your argument on that sort of logic . . . well . . . it's going to be shaky.

[BigRedBuster]

How do you know when voter fraud happens? Every single time an attempt is made to find out or prevent it, the Dems block it.

 

Voter ID....nope.

 

cleaning he list of eligible voters by eliminating dead people...etc....nope.

 

Seriously....how do you know if it is happening or not? If I can walk up to a polling place on the day of the election and register to vote and I don't need any form of ID to register......what prevents me from doing that at 5 polling places?

 

And, if I did, how are you going to catch me?

[sd'sker]

So how many voters, exactly, will be disenfranchised by this?

more than than those committing fraud. how many voters, exactly, would be too many? how many voters, exactly, have committed fraud?

So you have no idea how many it would be but it would definitely be too many.

go back up a little bit. i posted an article about over 750,000 voters in pennsylvania alone.

[carlfense]

How do you know when voter fraud happens? Every single time an attempt is made to find out or prevent it, the Dems block it.

Wait . . . what? We don't know when voter fraud happens because Dems block us from preventing voter fraud? That's circular.

 

Have Dems been blocking attempts to find out if voter fraud happens? If so, could you provide a link?

 

Voter ID....nope.

I'm fine with voter ID if . . . and only if . . . it's free and easily available. Also, I cannot in good conscience support it for this election cycle. The election is 7 weeks away. There just isn't time.

 

cleaning he list of eligible voters by eliminating dead people...etc....nope.

The problem is that thousands of US citizens are disenfranchised in the purges. Valid voters are cut off the rolls because of a problem that hasn't even been proven to exist. Does that worry you?

 

Here's one of your dead voters, BTW. The Wichita Eagle found him raking leaves.

http://www.kansas.com/2010/10/29/1562791/dead-folks-voting-at-least-ones.html

 

Seriously....how do you know if it is happening or not?

Figure something out. You'd better be able to prove a damn convincing case before we start taking away the right of the people to vote.

 

 

Seriously....how do you know if it is happening or not? If I can walk up to a polling place on the day of the election and register to vote and I don't need any form of ID to register......what prevents me from doing that at 5 polling places?

Other than risking 5 years in prison and/or a $10,000 fine for each registration? Other than that?

[BigRedBuster]

OK...let me try this again. I have quoted your post twice now and then it won't let me post mine.

 

Carl, I stated two points where the Dems block efforts to prevent voter fraud and you responded to them.

 

I am all for voter ID being free and readily available and yes, it should be implemented years in advance of an election. Funny thing is, Republicans have been working on this for years but the Dems block it constantly.

 

Yes, I am concerned about legal voters being taken off of the list so let's work together to prevent that from happening. Saying "don't do anything because it's not a big problem" doesn't work for me.

 

How is 5 years in prison and/or $10,000 in fines a deterrent when there is no mechanism in place to catch me? I didn't ask what the punishment was if I get caught, I'm asking how do you catch me?

 

Obviously it wasn't a big deterrent for ACORN.

[sd'sker]

I'm fine with voter ID if . . . and only if . . . it's free and easily available. Also, I cannot in good conscience support it for this election cycle. The election is 7 weeks away. There just isn't time.

to your point:

 

Twenty Hours of Work & Two Trips To The DMV: What It Takes To Get Voter ID In Pennsylvania

 

 

ABC News interviewed one man who was struggling to navigate his 87-year-old mother through the burdensome process:

Voters who have the six types of documents necessary to apply for the state ID card have limited time to apply.

For residents of 13 counties, there is only one day per week that the DMV is open to apply for an ID. And in 10 more counties it’s only open two days per week.

For Klincewicz and his 87-year-old mother that limited schedule meant

two days of trying in order to get her the ID required to vote, after she mistakenly surrendered her state ID because of a Department of Transportation error

. Klincewicz’s wife had to make two trips to the DMV where she and her mother-in-law, Jisele, waited upwards of four hours to get the ID. All told,

he and his wife spent more than 20 hours making phone calls, writing emails, driving to the DMV and waiting in lines to get his mother’s ID reinstated so she could vote in November,

Klincewicz said.

 

 

[BigRedBuster]

I'm fine with voter ID if . . . and only if . . . it's free and easily available. Also, I cannot in good conscience support it for this election cycle. The election is 7 weeks away. There just isn't time.

to your point:

 

Twenty Hours of Work & Two Trips To The DMV: What It Takes To Get Voter ID In Pennsylvania

 

 

 

 

ABC News interviewed one man who was struggling to navigate his 87-year-old mother through the burdensome process:

Voters who have the six types of documents necessary to apply for the state ID card have limited time to apply.

For residents of 13 counties, there is only one day per week that the DMV is open to apply for an ID. And in 10 more counties it’s only open two days per week.

For Klincewicz and his 87-year-old mother that limited schedule meant

two days of trying in order to get her the ID required to vote, after she mistakenly surrendered her state ID because of a Department of Transportation error

. Klincewicz’s wife had to make two trips to the DMV where she and her mother-in-law, Jisele, waited upwards of four hours to get the ID. All told,

he and his wife spent more than 20 hours making phone calls, writing emails, driving to the DMV and waiting in lines to get his mother’s ID reinstated so she could vote in November,

Klincewicz said.

 

So, let's fix that problem instead of throwing the entire effort out the window.

[sd'sker]

I'm fine with voter ID if . . . and only if . . . it's free and easily available. Also, I cannot in good conscience support it for this election cycle. The election is 7 weeks away. There just isn't time.

to your point:

 

Twenty Hours of Work & Two Trips To The DMV: What It Takes To Get Voter ID In Pennsylvania

 

 

 

 

ABC News interviewed one man who was struggling to navigate his 87-year-old mother through the burdensome process:

Voters who have the six types of documents necessary to apply for the state ID card have limited time to apply.

For residents of 13 counties, there is only one day per week that the DMV is open to apply for an ID. And in 10 more counties it’s only open two days per week.

For Klincewicz and his 87-year-old mother that limited schedule meant

two days of trying in order to get her the ID required to vote, after she mistakenly surrendered her state ID because of a Department of Transportation error

. Klincewicz’s wife had to make two trips to the DMV where she and her mother-in-law, Jisele, waited upwards of four hours to get the ID. All told,

he and his wife spent more than 20 hours making phone calls, writing emails, driving to the DMV and waiting in lines to get his mother’s ID reinstated so she could vote in November,

Klincewicz said.

 

So, let's fix that problem instead of throwing the entire effort out the window.

are you serious? this is a ruse to disenfranchise voters. how have you been convinced that this is some noble goal to protect democracy? it is so transparent and corrupt it is disgusting. and you have been convinced to defend this assault on decency and democracy? i do not even know what to say.

 

you mentioned treason earlier, for some inane reason. i will use the treason example again. treason is not a problem, but there should still be treason laws. voter fraud is not a problem, but there still should be laws to punish voter fraud. however, the government is using the fabricated specter of voter fraud to disenfranchise possibly millions of voters. there is to proportionality to the law or the problem. so, in regards to the treason example; it would be like if the gov't decided to warrant-less wiretap all american's citizens foreign communications, under the ruse of preventing treason. only, the ulterior motive is more clear in the case of voter id laws.