Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us

[carlfense]

For my own care I wish I could find a good, independent nurse practitioner to go to. And just pay her/him cash, at reasonable rates. (I'd rather have an independent doctor practicing out of a small clinic with reasonable rates. But this is a mythical creature.)

I wouldn't wish that . . .

That'd work for me. Since I'm fairly healthy. A nurse practitioner could take my pulse, measure my weight and handle any stitches, sprains, or minor injuries I've had during the course of my life. And I wouldn't have to pay $1500 to get a Band-Aid. (Which is what it cost when we took my kid to the emergency room with a minor cut on his forehead a few months back.)

Oh. I don't go in for my pulse, weight, stitches, sprains, or minor injuries.

 

Anything serious (or involving my future children) and I want a good doctor.

[NUance]

For my own care I wish I could find a good, independent nurse practitioner to go to. And just pay her/him cash, at reasonable rates. (I'd rather have an independent doctor practicing out of a small clinic with reasonable rates. But this is a mythical creature.)

I wouldn't wish that . . .

That'd work for me. Since I'm fairly healthy. A nurse practitioner could take my pulse, measure my weight and handle any stitches, sprains, or minor injuries I've had during the course of my life. And I wouldn't have to pay $1500 to get a Band-Aid. (Which is what it cost when we took my kid to the emergency room with a minor cut on his forehead a few months back.)

Oh. I don't go in for my pulse, weight, stitches, sprains, or minor injuries.

 

Anything serious (or involving my future children) and I want a good doctor.

Pulse and weight--I had to have that taken during a routine exam when I applied for health insurance a few years back. I haven't had stitches for over ten years. But if I need them I'm going to a doctor. (I'm not Rambo.) As for the injury, my kid fell on a lawn chair an got a small cut on his forehead (quarter inch or so). This happened on a Sunday evening. We debated whether to take him to the emergency room. We did, hoping to avoid a scar. Got in and out of the ER in about 45 minutes. The doctor looked at him briefly, swabbed the small wound, and painted a liquid bandage on. I'm quite happy with the care. But $1500 for five minutes of work? That's beyond absurd. It's highway robbery. / healthcare fail.

[BigRedBuster]

When we had our 2nd kid, my wife refused everything they wanted to give us. Diapers, medicines, etc, everything. We brought our own meals. We questioned every bit of medication they tried to give to determine if it was some over the counter crap that I could get for here at walmart. Both stays were paid 100% out of pocket (for reasons I will not get into) and we saved over 800 dollars on the 2nd visit by doing this way. It was recommended by a farmer couple that we know that has done it with 3 of their 4 kids for the sake of saving money. If you dont question and snoop every little thing or pill that they give and take an itemized list of everything they use, they will bend you over the bed come bill time. We wouldnt even take the water mug they wanted to give her. I brought one from home.

 

 

I haven't read the articles or the links in this thread. I am going to because it looks like good information.

 

However, this post caught my eye. I love this. This is what every consumer of health care should be doing until the industry proves we can trust them to be reasonable on what they charge.

Which brings me to a thread that I started a while back on our health care and what Obamacare is forcing us to do over the next few years. Right now we have a $5000 deductible mostly because a few years ago, we flat out couldn't afford the lower deductible that we had. Going to the $5000 deductible has forced our employees to be better consumers. After all, a large part of it is coming out of their pockets.

 

NOW...Obamacare is forcing us to have a lower deductible. This goes AGAINST forcing the public to be better consumers and forcing the health care system to be accountable.

 

Thanks to everyone for the links above. I'll get to them eventually.

 

The corrollary to this, is that if we went to a single payer Medicare system for ALL citizens, then hospitals wouldn't be able to charge at 300% markup on lab tests, because Medicare won't pay it. It would cause a tightening of the belt on the side of hospitals, who are quite clearly ordering unnecessary tests to jack up the costs against people with good insurance (and those without any insurance).

 

 

That's one option.

 

The other option is create an environment in the market place where there is true competition. Right now, there can't be because you have absolutely no clue what the price is. For instance, I have the option to go to my local medical clinic or drive 10-15 miles east or west to go to the next town's medical clinic. If I were able to call up and ask how much a procedure would cost, I could then make a consumer decision on if the care at my local clinic was worth anything above what the next town charges, or, I could drive to the next town and save money.

 

Many things have to happen to get to that point though. As pointed out in my original post, the patient needs to become a consumer. AND, medical facilities need to be required to post their prices. If that happens???? A lot of the problem is solved.

 

I don't like the thought of one payer systems or systems where services are provided from only one source. You have a very large organization that has complete control over what something costs and the services provided. I have been in situations like that before and it totally sucks.

 

edit......Actually another point that would help out is to make ALL insurance nothing more than for catastrophic illnesses or at least major bills.

 

Just look at the conversation in this thread. People are talking about going to the doctor to have their pulse, blood pressure taken or a cold...etc. No way in HELL should that be paid for out of an insurance policy.

[carlfense]

I haven't had stitches for over ten years. But if I need them I'm going to a doctor. (I'm not Rambo.)

I'm not Rambo either . . . but my wife is pretty good with a needle.

 

As for the injury, my kid fell on a lawn chair an got a small cut on his forehead (quarter inch or so). This happened on a Sunday evening. We debated whether to take him to the emergency room. We did, hoping to avoid a scar. Got in and out of the ER in about 45 minutes. The doctor looked at him briefly, swabbed the small wound, and painted a liquid bandage on. I'm quite happy with the care. But $1500 for five minutes of work? That's beyond absurd. It's highway robbery. / healthcare fail.

Head injuries are scary things. Does sound like you got robbed on what are probably "standard" ER fees.

[NUance]

Another thing that gets me is the cost of prescriptions. My wife is a stay-at-home mom, so usually she takes care of prescription stuff for any ailments our family may have. (Which isn't much--we're a healthy lot, knock on wood.) But one day I stopped by the drug store to pick up a prescription. When the lady behind the counter asked for an insurance card I couldn't find mine, so I said "I'll just pay cash." Turns out the cash price was almost 50% higher than the insurance card price. 50% HIGHER! I ended up finding my insurance card buried in my wallet. But why in the wide world of sports would the cash price--dollar bills, mind you--be *higher* than the price I pay when I flash an insurance card? That's just weird. Another example of how screwed up the U.S. health care system is.

 

/ just for clarity: I'm not talking about a co-pay. I'm talking about the full price (wi insurance card) vs. the full price (w/out insurance card). Apples to apples.

[BigRedBuster]

The part about prescriptions that frustrates me is that I have no clue what the real price should be.

 

I do know that it takes an ungodly amount of money to get a new drug to market. That is all the way from the very beginning of research to FDA approval to manufacturing, marketing and sales costs. Do I think a new cancer drug should cost $10,000 per dose?? HELL NO. But, I don't know what "reasonable" is.

 

Personally, I don't think that can be decided any other way that some type of consumer decision making in the market place with good price data to go by.

[strigori]

When we had our 2nd kid, my wife refused everything they wanted to give us. Diapers, medicines, etc, everything. We brought our own meals. We questioned every bit of medication they tried to give to determine if it was some over the counter crap that I could get for here at walmart. Both stays were paid 100% out of pocket (for reasons I will not get into) and we saved over 800 dollars on the 2nd visit by doing this way. It was recommended by a farmer couple that we know that has done it with 3 of their 4 kids for the sake of saving money. If you dont question and snoop every little thing or pill that they give and take an itemized list of everything they use, they will bend you over the bed come bill time. We wouldnt even take the water mug they wanted to give her. I brought one from home.

 

 

I haven't read the articles or the links in this thread. I am going to because it looks like good information.

 

However, this post caught my eye. I love this. This is what every consumer of health care should be doing until the industry proves we can trust them to be reasonable on what they charge.

Which brings me to a thread that I started a while back on our health care and what Obamacare is forcing us to do over the next few years. Right now we have a $5000 deductible mostly because a few years ago, we flat out couldn't afford the lower deductible that we had. Going to the $5000 deductible has forced our employees to be better consumers. After all, a large part of it is coming out of their pockets.

 

NOW...Obamacare is forcing us to have a lower deductible. This goes AGAINST forcing the public to be better consumers and forcing the health care system to be accountable.

 

Thanks to everyone for the links above. I'll get to them eventually.

 

The corrollary to this, is that if we went to a single payer Medicare system for ALL citizens, then hospitals wouldn't be able to charge at 300% markup on lab tests, because Medicare won't pay it. It would cause a tightening of the belt on the side of hospitals, who are quite clearly ordering unnecessary tests to jack up the costs against people with good insurance (and those without any insurance).

 

 

That's one option.

 

The other option is create an environment in the market place where there is true competition. Right now, there can't be because you have absolutely no clue what the price is. For instance, I have the option to go to my local medical clinic or drive 10-15 miles east or west to go to the next town's medical clinic. If I were able to call up and ask how much a procedure would cost, I could then make a consumer decision on if the care at my local clinic was worth anything above what the next town charges, or, I could drive to the next town and save money.

 

Many things have to happen to get to that point though. As pointed out in my original post, the patient needs to become a consumer. AND, medical facilities need to be required to post their prices. If that happens???? A lot of the problem is solved.

 

I don't like the thought of one payer systems or systems where services are provided from only one source. You have a very large organization that has complete control over what something costs and the services provided. I have been in situations like that before and it totally sucks.

 

edit......Actually another point that would help out is to make ALL insurance nothing more than for catastrophic illnesses or at least major bills.

 

Just look at the conversation in this thread. People are talking about going to the doctor to have their pulse, blood pressure taken or a cold...etc. No way in HELL should that be paid for out of an insurance policy.

You have a much too narrow view of things. Talk to someone in their mid 50's. My mom was having some shortness of breath and a couple other symptoms where her GP wanted to run some heart tests. They ran one test, to the tune of $7,000, hit her whole deductible, and then 20% after. They outright refused to talk price beforehand. And she couldn't afford to do anything else after that either.

 

Our medical care system needs a 100% overhaul. If that means some greedy F's at the tops of insurance companies are out of work, too GD bad. Right now the whole system is rigged to make a few people very wealthy and to hell with people's health. Single payer. There is a reason why the rest of the Western world does it that way, and we sit here and let greedy F's and their stockholders screw us over.

 

And we subsidize the rest of the planet when it comes to drugs. Canadian drugs are dangerous right? Anyone tell the Canadians?

[sd'sker]

i agree with strigori. same with prescription drugs. that should be the gov't's responsibility. we should all pay for it because we will all benefit from better drugs and more research. there are few things i think should be nationalized. of them would be banks, military, and healthcare (obviously i think there should be public education, but i would not consider that 'nationalized' because there are still private options). that is probably it, come to think of it.

[BigRedBuster]

I am not the one with a narrow view of the situation. You look at the unfortunate situation with your mother in her 50s and the only view you have is that the government should pay for it. When you have one entity (which has proven over and over again it has a hard time running anything efficiently) in complete control of the funds that enters an industry.....that is a very scary thought to me.

 

Give the consumers information they need to make a decision and the motivation to make a wise decision. That hasn't happened in health care for almost a century.

[gobiggergoredder]

i agree with strigori. same with prescription drugs. that should be the gov't's responsibility. we should all pay for it because we will all benefit from better drugs and more research. there are few things i think should be nationalized. of them would be banks, military, and healthcare (obviously i think there should be public education, but i would not consider that 'nationalized' because there are still private options). that is probably it, come to think of it.

Government taking over drugs equals lower prices and more/better research..Wow, just wow.

[sd'sker]

i agree with strigori. same with prescription drugs. that should be the gov't's responsibility. we should all pay for it because we will all benefit from better drugs and more research. there are few things i think should be nationalized. of them would be banks, military, and healthcare (obviously i think there should be public education, but i would not consider that 'nationalized' because there are still private options). that is probably it, come to think of it.

Government taking over drugs equals lower prices and more/better research..Wow, just wow.

that is not what i wrote. i wrote that every american would benefit from better drugs and more research. do you disagree?

[carlfense]

i agree with strigori. same with prescription drugs. that should be the gov't's responsibility. we should all pay for it because we will all benefit from better drugs and more research. there are few things i think should be nationalized. of them would be banks, military, and healthcare (obviously i think there should be public education, but i would not consider that 'nationalized' because there are still private options). that is probably it, come to think of it.

Government taking over drugs equals lower prices and more/better research..Wow, just wow.

Well . . . government run medicine has been shown to equal lower prices . . . so it might not be far off. The research aspect seems open to interpretation.

[carlfense]

I am not the one with a narrow view of the situation. You look at the unfortunate situation with your mother in her 50s and the only view you have is that the government should pay for it. When you have one entity (which has proven over and over again it has a hard time running anything efficiently) in complete control of the funds that enters an industry.....that is a very scary thought to me.

 

Give the consumers information they need to make a decision and the motivation to make a wise decision. That hasn't happened in health care for almost a century.

Ahem.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/15/us-column-miller-medicare-idUSBRE87E15N20120815

 

Not that it will make you re-think your private=good and public=bad . . . but it might give you a brief pause.

[BigRedBuster]

Hair in your throat?

 

First off, that article is laughable as any type of evidence against what I have said. Medicare works within a system that isn't in Medicare. When a Medicare patient goes to the doctor, he/she doesn't go into a special system that is completely ran by Medicare where all costs are covered by that system.

 

In many ways, it is benefiting from being a part of another system.

[carlfense]

Hair in your throat?

 

First off, that article is laughable as any type of evidence against what I have said. Medicare works within a system that isn't in Medicare. When a Medicare patient goes to the doctor, he/she doesn't go into a special system that is completely ran by Medicare where all costs are covered by that system.

 

In many ways, it is benefiting from being a part of another system.

Perhaps you'd prefer the example of the VA?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0501.longman.html