Pope Francis

[GBRedneck]

[StPaulHusker]

Now if he could only get around to officially removing child molesters from the priesthood...........

[beanman]

http://now.msn.com/pope-francis-embraces-ailing-man-photos-go-viral

[sd'sker]

he is a great pope. not sure there is a group of people i respect more than jesuits. in fact, my daughter is getting baptized by a jesuit and i am very excited about it.

[tmfr15]

It's a fine thing that the pope isn't being a total jerk wad in a few areas, but he still leaves me frustrated.

 

First off.... The Catholic Church has not corrected their position when it comes to the preist issues. There should be ZERO tollerance for the behavior and ZERO ambiguity about it. Preist fools around with kids and he gets excomunicated. As soon as the charges are proved, he's kicked out of the church.

 

Secondly... People are dying around the world of starvation. This Pope brings the hammer down on the Bishop of Bling. But at the end of the day, he is going to be standing in front of a congregation saying let's pray for the poor while I hold onto this HUGE gold septer or sit on this HUGE gold thrown. Hmmm.... WTF

 

Lastly.... Africans continue to contract and die of AIDS. Condoms would help stop the spread of the disease. And yet the Catholic Church objects to condoms on moral grounds. God doesn't like condoms, even if the condoms would save countless people from dying horrible deaths. Really? DAMN

[Landlord]

It's a fine thing that the pope isn't being a total jerk wad in a few areas, but he still leaves me frustrated.

 

First off.... The Catholic Church has not corrected their position when it comes to the preist issues. There should be ZERO tollerance for the behavior and ZERO ambiguity about it. Preist fools around with kids and he gets excomunicated. As soon as the charges are proved, he's kicked out of the church.

 

Secondly... People are dying around the world of starvation. This Pope brings the hammer down on the Bishop of Bling. But at the end of the day, he is going to be standing in front of a congregation saying let's pray for the poor while I hold onto this HUGE gold septer or sit on this HUGE gold thrown. Hmmm.... WTF

 

Lastly.... Africans continue to contract and die of AIDS. Condoms would help stop the spread of the disease. And yet the Catholic Church objects to condoms on moral grounds. God doesn't like condoms, even if the condoms would save countless people from dying horrible deaths. Really? DAMN

 

 

I don't really have much to offer towards your individual points, but I think you're expecting perfection from a man towards your own personal standards. One man, even if he is considered to be God's supernaturally ordained medium, can only accomplish so much - especially in changing an institution with numbers in the billions.

 

My friendly suggestion is to extend grace to him in the same way you would expect him to extend grace to others.

[tmfr15]

I am not required to extend grace to a man who is supposedly the representation of his savior on earth and who seems to be OK with allowing people to die of preventable disease while enjoying wealth, claiming poverty and protecting sex offenders.

[StPaulHusker]

I am not required to extend grace to a man who is supposedly the representation of his savior on earth and who seems to be OK with allowing people to die of preventable disease while enjoying wealth, claiming poverty and protecting sex offenders.

Did he say somewhere that he is okay with allowing people to die of preventable disease?

 

There is some wealth behind him now that he is Pope. But I am not sure I would go so far as to say he is enjoying it. He has taken many steps to lead a more frugal life in his new position. Would it make you feel better if he pawned the scepter? There are certain traditional things that a pope has. There should be no shame in that. Those items hold specific meaning within the faith. It's not like he had a new one custom made or anything.

 

With regards to feeding the starving people and the Bishop of Bling. He just turned the guy's house into a soup kitchen. I would say that is a step in the right direction.

 

And lastly about the priest abuse issues. The Pope is not hiding anyone. The Archbishops are the ones to blame mostly. They are supposed to report these things to the Vatican and many do not. I know this first hand and it is a very serious problem.

 

Here is where the Pope is failing in this regard. He is not officially removing men convicted of sex abuse from the priesthood. Again, I have specific knowledge about a priest that abused some kids and is now serving time in prison. He has had his privileges of presiding and counseling as a priest revoked permanently but still to this day not been officially removed as a priest. That is a big problem he has yet to correct.

[tmfr15]

It's hard to defend the papacy, but not because of my standards. Look to their own standards. Remember, the pope is the earthly representative of JESUS CHRIST. As such, he makes statements of infallibility. These statements are coming, not from the pope, but, supposedly from GOD.

 

Condoms prevent HIV and AIDS. Is there debate on this? Yet the pope says NO to condoms in Africa because GOD has told him that he doesn't like it.

 

Every wonder why items of spiritual significance or also of great monetary significance? Just look at Vatican City. It's loaded with such items.

 

Lastly... the priest crimes thing is a big deal. I grew up Catholic. I went to Catholic school. I have relatives who were both priests and nuns. And.... my brother was sexually abused by a priest who was moved around and who NEVER faced criminal charges.

[carlfense]

Lastly... the priest crimes thing is a big deal. I grew up Catholic. I went to Catholic school. I have relatives who were both priests and nuns. And.... my brother was sexually abused by a priest who was moved around and who NEVER faced criminal charges.

Sorry to hear that. Those stories are way too common.

[StPaulHusker]

It's hard to defend the papacy, but not because of my standards. Look to their own standards. Remember, the pope is the earthly representative of JESUS CHRIST. As such, he makes statements of infallibility. These statements are coming, not from the pope, but, supposedly from GOD.

 

Condoms prevent HIV and AIDS. Is there debate on this? Yet the pope says NO to condoms in Africa because GOD has told him that he doesn't like it.

 

Every wonder why items of spiritual significance or also of great monetary significance? Just look at Vatican City. It's loaded with such items.

 

Lastly... the priest crimes thing is a big deal. I grew up Catholic. I went to Catholic school. I have relatives who were both priests and nuns. And.... my brother was sexually abused by a priest who was moved around and who NEVER faced criminal charges.

Abstinence prevents the spread of these diseases via sex as well. That is the Church's position. I don't think they have to change their views. They are not keeping people from using protection. But they are sticking to their beliefs.

 

I don't wonder about the significance. Back when a lot of these relics were made, China wasn't a global force in manufacturing cheap plastic items. Plus a long time ago, the Pope was more powerful than kings. Seems only logical that the people back then would treat them as such.

 

I feel bad for your brother. I hope he is at peace with things now. There is no excuse for that type of behavior. I believe that this Pope will turn things in the right direction. There was a lot on his plate when he stepped in and he is making a lot of headway since getting there. I am willing to give him a little more time before getting any more ruffled.

 

My biggest complaint is with the Archdiocese of the Twin Cities. There is s sh#tstorm of problems regarding this issue and its coverup that is coming to light and it all points to the Archbishop and the Vicar General who since resigned amid the scandals.

[carlfense]

Abstinence prevents the spread of these diseases via sex as well. That is the Church's position. I don't think they have to change their views. They are not keeping people from using protection. But they are sticking to their beliefs.

Sigh. Abstinence. Sell that in Africa (or anywhere else, for that matter).

[StPaulHusker]

Abstinence prevents the spread of these diseases via sex as well. That is the Church's position. I don't think they have to change their views. They are not keeping people from using protection. But they are sticking to their beliefs.

Sigh. Abstinence. Sell that in Africa (or anywhere else, for that matter).

I know. I'm not saying I agree with the stance. I just understand what the Vatican is saying. They are saying that there is an alternative that matches their religious beliefs and that is what they are going to promote. Personally speaking, I bet they are glad that there are people being responsible and using protection.

[Landlord]

I am not required to extend grace to a man who is supposedly the representation of his savior on earth and who seems to be OK with allowing people to die of preventable disease while enjoying wealth, claiming poverty and protecting sex offenders.

 

 

If you claim the Christian faith, then yes. you are.

[tmfr15]

I don't claim the Christian faith. I have rejected religion. And the reason is not specifically the Catholic church. That was the faith that I was comfortable with ahead of all others. I don't have a grudge against anyone due to my brother. And he didn't have one after this either. But I think he struggled with it and suffered long term consequences which may have led him to the substance abuse that eventually claimed his life.

 

Bottom line, people in organized religion make as many mistakes as those who are not spiritual at all. The trouble is that when those religious leaders make mistakes or further questionable lines of thinking, such as abstinence over contraception, they use colorful language and bible verses and dance around the truth of the issue instead of having to face up to being wrong. People who obligate themselves to believe are more tempted than others to give leaders the benefit of the doubt because they want to believe in traditional edicts.

 

Contraception is FAR better than abstinence to fight disease. Those who say that's not true and "stick with their belief" despite evidence to the contrary, have blood on their hands.

 

Kicking out priests and exposing them to justice through the court system is the only way to go. People who don't report should face criminal charges.

 

A vow of poverty and the church's continued insistence on flaunting wealth and seeking political power are not compatible, never have been, and never will be.