Pope Francis

[JJ Husker]

No sh#t abstinence is technically 100% effective compared with 97% with condoms. But abstinence is just not a feasible solution because of basic human nature.

 

JJ there's a big difference between someone "not walking around Africa handing out condoms" and someone actively preaching that condoms should not ever be used.

 

If you're expecting me to defend the churches position on condoms, I've got bad news far ya. It is one of the many issues I disagree with. I get it on abortion. I get it on contraceptive method that takes place post contraception. And I get the admonitions against sex outside of wedlock but I don't get their position against being able to prevent contraception with the added benefit of preventing std's. But I digress.

 

My point was that the church (the Pope, whatever) is not telling people abstinence is better than condoms at preventing std's. They aren't passing it off as some scientific finding, it is simply part of their belief structure to avoid unmarried sex and the use of contraceptives. The vast majority of Catholics ignore the churches instructions on the use of contraceptives. I find it odd that they can be blamed for an Aids epidemic in Africa given that most followers of that religion ignore it and that many in Africa are not even Catholic. If I'm sick or have an ailment that requires a doctor or medical attention, why would I ignore them and choose to listen to the views of a religious leader instead?

[sd'sker]

jj is right. it really is unfair to blame the catholic church for the aids epidemic in africa. sure, they may not be helping, per se. but the fact of the matter is that there is a lot of misinformation and myths regarding sex in africa and the greatest problem is just a lack of information.

[tschu]

No I agree with you about the "blood on their hands" comment JJ, but was making a tangential point.

[Landlord]

Scripture.

 

seems to me that throughout history scripture has been open to interpretation. also seems that throughout history the christian doctrine, while consistently purporting to rely on scripture, has progressed and changed with society to better accommodate contemporaneous mores.

 

 

 

I agree with you.

[sd'sker]

Scripture.

 

seems to me that throughout history scripture has been open to interpretation. also seems that throughout history the christian doctrine, while consistently purporting to rely on scripture, has progressed and changed with society to better accommodate contemporaneous mores.

 

 

 

I agree with you.

 

i did not expect that. i was expecting a, with all due respect and for a lack of a better term, lecture because you are very knowledgeable of your faith and christianity.

[Landlord]

Scripture.

seems to me that throughout history scripture has been open to interpretation. also seems that throughout history the christian doctrine, while consistently purporting to rely on scripture, has progressed and changed with society to better accommodate contemporaneous mores.

 

 

I agree with you.

i did not expect that. i was expecting a, with all due respect and for a lack of a better term, lecture because you are very knowledgeable of your faith and christianity.

 

 

I think I've got a bit of knowledge at least, but I do still agree with you.

 

Obviously, Scripture is open to interpretation; anyone that argues otherwise is just being stubborn and defining words differently. Even at it's most basic level, we need to interpret characters into languages into words into sentences into paragraphs into letters, etc. But even going further than the technicality, of course, because (in my opinion,) God chose to contain His nature and revelation inside of a finite book, thoughts will change and grow as we attempt to understand an infinite Creator from what we have, and also try to battle the cultural presuppositions that we live inside of and don't even realize.

 

I don't think that is to say, however, that there is no constant to Scripture, or that it's unreliable for declaring or grabbing hold of firm positions. Too many Christians will so easily revert to the absolute extreme of, "The Bible says this and that's it.", unfortunately, but it seems to me to be just as erroneous to swing the pendulum too far the other way and declare, "The Bible doesn't have anything substantial to say about anything." I think it is constant and also reliable. I also am of the opinion, from my own study of Scripture and of church history, that those foundational things which it really rests upon have generally been held to and acknowledged by the (at least leaders of) church throughout most all of it's history. I observe and I see these rhythms that things keep coming back to and they match up with what I read and they are defended fiercely by the early priests, church fathers, council members, reformers, and others.

 

Going back to the original quote I posted - I believe confidently that it's taught by Scripture and affirmed by faithful church fathers of history that sex is an incredibly precious gift given by God to be enjoyable and pleasurable and incredible, and that our bodies aren't to be ashamed of but celebrated and respected and treasured. Heck, thumb through Song of Solomon if you never have. You might be shocked

[GBRedneck]

No two people have the exact same beliefs.

[sd'sker]

+1 landlord. thanks for that post. very well said.

[sd'sker]

Pope Francis 'Evangelii Gaudium' Calls For Renewal Of Roman Catholic Church, Attacks 'Idolatry Of Money'

 

Pope Francis called for renewal of the Roman Catholic Church and attacked unfettered capitalism as "a new tyranny", urging global leaders to fight poverty and growing inequality in the first major work he has authored alone as pontiff.

[carlfense]

Pope Francis 'Evangelii Gaudium' Calls For Renewal Of Roman Catholic Church, Attacks 'Idolatry Of Money'

 

Pope Francis called for renewal of the Roman Catholic Church and attacked unfettered capitalism as "a new tyranny", urging global leaders to fight poverty and growing inequality in the first major work he has authored alone as pontiff.

Goodness. Sounds like a christian.

 

A real christian and not what passes for christianity in US politics.

[Landlord]

 

 

Goodness. Sounds like a christian.

 

A real christian and not what passes for christianity in US politics.

 

 

I agree and am really thanking God for what I'm seeing so far from Pope Francis.

 

It will be really interesting to see where things go from here. Christendom is essentially over, but remnants of it still remain and are held to (who knows why) in certain places, especially here in the midwest.

 

Having such an influential leader really "walk the walk" is going to, if I have to guess, continue to separate that chasm between the progressing worldviews of modern culture and the church. I think that can simultaneously be a really good and a really bad thing.

[sd'sker]

Goodness. Sounds like a christian.

 

A real christian and not what passes for christianity in US politics.

due to him being jesuit, i know of at least a few catholics that would dispute his catholicism. but he is a good representative of christianity, imo.

[StPaulHusker]

Sure would like to see him tackle that pesky priest sex abuse issue soon. He has yet to officially remove the former priest from my church that is serving a 5 year prison sentence for child molestation from the priesthood. I am sure this isn't the only one.

[Landlord]

Sure would like to see him tackle that pesky priest sex abuse issue soon. He has yet to officially remove the former priest from my church that is serving a 5 year prison sentence for child molestation from the priesthood. I am sure this isn't the only one.

 

 

 

 

Pope Francis is assembling a panel of experts to advise him about protecting children from sexually abusive priests and about helping victims who have already been harmed.

Cardinal Sean O'Malley, the archbishop of Boston, announced the creation of the commission Thursday at the conclusion of a meeting between Francis and his eight cardinal advisers who are helping him govern the church and reform the Vatican bureaucracy. Boston was the epicenter of the 2002 clerical sexual abuse scandal in the U.S.

O'Malley told reporters the commission would study current programs to protect children, better screen priests, train church personnel and suggest new initiatives.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/05/pope-francis-commission-sexual-abuse_n_4390452.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

[StPaulHusker]

Sure would like to see him tackle that pesky priest sex abuse issue soon. He has yet to officially remove the former priest from my church that is serving a 5 year prison sentence for child molestation from the priesthood. I am sure this isn't the only one.

 

 

 

 

Pope Francis is assembling a panel of experts to advise him about protecting children from sexually abusive priests and about helping victims who have already been harmed.

Cardinal Sean O'Malley, the archbishop of Boston, announced the creation of the commission Thursday at the conclusion of a meeting between Francis and his eight cardinal advisers who are helping him govern the church and reform the Vatican bureaucracy. Boston was the epicenter of the 2002 clerical sexual abuse scandal in the U.S.

 

O'Malley told reporters the commission would study current programs to protect children, better screen priests, train church personnel and suggest new initiatives.

 

 

 

http://www.huffingto...kusaolp00000009

Step in the right direction.

 

My son takes religious ed classes at a Catholic church and my wife works for the Church. My son had to take a class on how to protect himself from abusive adults. My wife had to take a class on how not to be an abusive adult and to be able to spot other abusive adults. But the priests have not had to go through any of the same training.

 

The Archdiocese of Minneapolis-St Paul, MN just released the names of priests with CREDIBLE complaints against them. All of them have been removed from ministry. Very few have been defrocked. Meaning they are still technically priests.

 

There is still a long way to go.