Pope Francis

[Ratt Mhule]

http://news.yahoo.com/video/pope-could-face-mafia-threat-183521638.html

 

Mafia wants to put a hit on the Pope?

[GBRedneck]

I am not required to extend grace to a man who is supposedly the representation of his savior on earth and who seems to be OK with allowing people to die of preventable disease while enjoying wealth, claiming poverty and protecting sex offenders.

 

 

If you claim the Christian faith, then yes. you are.

 

I beg to differ. Maybe you are if you're catholic, but certainly not if you're protestant.

 

Unless you're going with the whole "love your neighbor as yourself" thing.

[Landlord]

I am not required to extend grace to a man who is supposedly the representation of his savior on earth and who seems to be OK with allowing people to die of preventable disease while enjoying wealth, claiming poverty and protecting sex offenders.

 

 

If you claim the Christian faith, then yes. you are.

 

I beg to differ. Maybe you are if you're catholic, but certainly not if you're protestant.

 

Unless you're going with the whole "love your neighbor as yourself" thing.

 

 

Yeah, that part is pretty important.

 

Grace is the centrality of the entire Christian faith - including, and especially, Protestant streams. Receiving grace and in turn extending grace as Christ does.

[GBRedneck]

I am not required to extend grace to a man who is supposedly the representation of his savior on earth and who seems to be OK with allowing people to die of preventable disease while enjoying wealth, claiming poverty and protecting sex offenders.

 

 

If you claim the Christian faith, then yes. you are.

 

I beg to differ. Maybe you are if you're catholic, but certainly not if you're protestant.

 

Unless you're going with the whole "love your neighbor as yourself" thing.

 

 

Yeah, that part is pretty important.

 

Grace is the centrality of the entire Christian faith - including, and especially, Protestant streams. Receiving grace and in turn extending grace as Christ does.

But is "love your neighbor as yourself" really "grace"? According to my dictionary, grace is divinely given. I doubt if tmfr15 could deliver on that requirement even if he wanted to.

[Landlord]

But is "love your neighbor as yourself" really "grace"? According to my dictionary, grace is divinely given. I doubt if tmfr15 could deliver on that requirement even if he wanted to.

 

You can quibble over terms if you want, but the point of what I'm getting at is this.

 

In the Christian faith, grace is free, unmerited favor and mercy that isn't dependent on any condition or requirement, given by God. For Christians, aka those that receive the gift of grace, we become caretakers and also become sanctified, being refined to look more and more like Christ. As such, we are bound to extend grace - not our own grace, but God's - to others. Because God extends mercy and love and forgiveness to all people, so too are we called and equipped to do the same, by His strength and authority. Passing it along, so to speak. So yes, by a technical definition, grace is divinely given, but by a practical realization, it is extended by Christians as caretakers or messengers. Not something that we create or give of ourselves, but something that we have been given, and in turn, give.

[JJ Husker]

 

Contraception is FAR better than abstinence to fight disease. Those who say that's not true and "stick with their belief" despite evidence to the contrary, have blood on their hands.

 

 

I hesitate to enter this discussion but this is just flat out wrong. Abstinence is absolutely a better, more sure method, of preventing STD's than condoms are. Now if a person doesn't actually abstain, then yes, it's a problem. But to say they have blood on their hands is over doing it. If that is true then anyone who isn't walking around Africa, handing out condoms, and educating the people how to stop the transmission of aids, also has blood on their hands.

 

 

[tschu]

No sh#t abstinence is technically 100% effective compared with 97% with condoms. But abstinence is just not a feasible solution because of basic human nature.

 

JJ there's a big difference between someone "not walking around Africa handing out condoms" and someone actively preaching that condoms should not ever be used.

[sd'sker]

i find it odd that they listen to the pope regarding condoms, but not avoiding premarital sex. if you are going to have premarital sex, why would you be concerned about the sinfulness of condoms? do they think condoms, in and of themselves, are sinful?

 

it is just weird to me. but, so is condemning the use of condoms. or the notion that sex is sinful and we should be ashamed of our bodies.

[tschu]

Well, most religious types are very selective regarding which parts of scripture and church doctrine that they follow. Everything God says is holy! Well except for all of this stuff that doesn't count.

[GBRedneck]

But is "love your neighbor as yourself" really "grace"? According to my dictionary, grace is divinely given. I doubt if tmfr15 could deliver on that requirement even if he wanted to.

 

You can quibble over terms if you want, but the point of what I'm getting at is this.

 

In the Christian faith, grace is free, unmerited favor and mercy that isn't dependent on any condition or requirement, given by God. For Christians, aka those that receive the gift of grace, we become caretakers and also become sanctified, being refined to look more and more like Christ. As such, we are bound to extend grace - not our own grace, but God's - to others. Because God extends mercy and love and forgiveness to all people, so too are we called and equipped to do the same, by His strength and authority. Passing it along, so to speak. So yes, by a technical definition, grace is divinely given, but by a practical realization, it is extended by Christians as caretakers or messengers. Not something that we create or give of ourselves, but something that we have been given, and in turn, give.

Well put!

[sd'sker]

Well, most religious types are very selective regarding which parts of scripture and church doctrine that they follow. Everything God says is holy! Well except for all of this stuff that doesn't count.

i agree. but i feel that there will be some well articulated disagreements coming up.

[Landlord]

it is just weird to me. but, so is condemning the use of condoms. or the notion that sex is sinful and we should be ashamed of our bodies.

 

 

Neither of which is a faithful Christian doctrine.

[sd'sker]

it is just weird to me. but, so is condemning the use of condoms. or the notion that sex is sinful and we should be ashamed of our bodies.

 

 

Neither of which is a faithful Christian doctrine.

says who?

[Landlord]

it is just weird to me. but, so is condemning the use of condoms. or the notion that sex is sinful and we should be ashamed of our bodies.

 

 

Neither of which is a faithful Christian doctrine.

says who?

 

 

Scripture.

[sd'sker]

Scripture.

seems to me that throughout history scripture has been open to interpretation. also seems that throughout history the christian doctrine, while consistently purporting to rely on scripture, has progressed and changed with society to better accommodate contemporaneous mores.