krill Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 We have a nation of nonthinkers. That is precisely why we have this mess. And why we'll have it again and again and again until people stop to actually think about what this kind of "leadership" is. Degenerate media, campaign finance laws, gerrymandering, citizen's political apathy, and structural deficiencies in our system of government probably all deserve equal blame. If I had to pick one that is most to blame though, it would be structural deficiencies. Imagine if the house, instead of representing what are now completely arbitrary districts, was instead a proportionally represented by national vote. Radical parties would have their seats and their voice, but if they refused to moderate and join governing majorities, they would have no power. Of course this system has all sorts of nastiness when it comes to forming a governing majority, but if we had a higher house (the senate) that was more of a technocratic check on the lower house, with a reformed executive that still served as head of state and commander in chief...that might actually be a more rational way to govern 300 million people in the 21st century. Link to comment
carlfense Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Just about every time I feel the need to post I just read you, Carlfense, and hit the plus one button. That must be only because I post faster. Your posts are much more thorough and thoughtful than anything that I put out. That from Husker_x makes me feel like I just met Alice Cooper. Link to comment
Junior Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 In the middle of a possible debt crissis and our House Member's are wooried about imagration reform. Police arrest 8 House members at immigration rally WASHINGTON (AP) — At least eight Democratic members of the House were among about 200 people arrested Tuesday after they blocked a main street near the Capitol during a massive rally seeking to push Republicans to hold a vote on a stalled immigration reform bill. Police would not identify those arrested. Representatives of the social policy organization Center for Community Change and The Associated Press witnessed the arrests of Reps. John Lewis, D-Ga.; Luis Gutiérrez, D-Ill.; Raúl Grijalva, D-Ariz.; Keith Ellison, D-Minn.; Joseph Crowley and Charles Rangel, both D-N.Y.; Al Green, D-Texas; and Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., I fail to see your point. One of the other crimes of this shutdown is the attention it is drawing away from important things that need to be done. Action on immigration, climate change, tax reform, the list goes on and on. I certainly wouldn't rule this out as an additional motive behind the shutdown from the right. But yea, damn those House members for trying to do something, anything to show that people want action from congress. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The worst part of all this? After this debacle is over, the GOP won't lose any followers. The people who supported them yesterday will support them tomorrow because "that's my party" without ever once thinking how from their ideals that party has strayed. The party of Reagan Republicans? Holy hell, not on your life. We have a nation of nonthinkers. That is precisely why we have this mess. And why we'll have it again and again and again until people stop to actually think about what this kind of "leadership" is. I don't necessarily agree with this. I am finding people who used to be Republicans and now aren't. I am one of them. Here is an interesting graph I found and this is how I would think it would look. I'm specifically talking about the top graph. Democrats are pretty much staying the same. If you were a Democrat, you're not changing. There seems to be a lot of people though that identified as Republicans that now identify as independents. Here's the link to the article. LINK The article sort of mentions the trend since 2008. I am specifically talking about the trend since 2000 or 2002. Independents have come from Republicans who are seemingly really questioning party leadership. Meanwhile, Democrats seem to be sticking to the party. 1 Link to comment
knapplc Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 That's good stuff, BRB. I'm like you - a former Republican. I'm very happy as an independent. I suppose I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Republican party, which is probably understandable having worked in campaigns and growing up in a house of Republicans. I just can't see myself ever identifying with a party again, and that's probably double for the Democrats. My neutrality extends only so far. I could never register as a Democrat. 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 That's good stuff, BRB. I'm like you - a former Republican. I'm very happy as an independent. I suppose I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Republican party, which is probably understandable having worked in campaigns and growing up in a house of Republicans. I just can't see myself ever identifying with a party again, and that's probably double for the Democrats. My neutrality extends only so far. I could never register as a Democrat. +1 I absolutely can not ever see me registering as a Democrat and I'm pretty close to that with the Republicans. If I ever register for another party, something completely new is going to have to evolve. Link to comment
EbylHusker Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Both sides have already negotiated. Reid and Boehner struck a deal months ago about a clean CR to fund the government at just under a billion dollars (less than the Democrats wanted). Between then and now, Boehner's balls dropped off and the Tea Party jumped further off the deep end than they already were, dragging the rest of the moderate Republicans with them. That, coupled with the fact that this is over something that has been signed into law and upheld as constitutional by the Supreme Court and won't even be affected by this government shutdown, lets this idiocy rest on the Republicans and their ridiculous fear of the Tea Party. At this point, it's about time for the Tea Party to be declared terrorists and the drone strikes to begin. Link to comment
tschu Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Gerrymandering is the most egregious and most fixable issue in regards to both making the House a more accurate representation of the American public, and making districts more competitive, spurring (hopefully) fewer shenanigans and increased job performance among House members. It's easy to pull BS like this when you know you're going to be reelected anyway. Link to comment
carlfense Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 The most telling thing about Boehner’s remarks is their brevity. The Speaker spoke for about five minutes, responded briefly to one question, and bolted out the door. Obama’s disquisition earlier today may have been long (over an hour) and professorial. But he was able to defend his position against questions, engage counterarguments, and marshal facts to support his position. Boehner couldn’t do any of those things. So he did the only thing a man in his position could do: repeat a handful of false or crazy talking points and quickly flee the premises. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/boehner-too-embarrassed-to-defend-extortion.html Link to comment
GM_Tood Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 That's good stuff, BRB. I'm like you - a former Republican. I'm very happy as an independent. I suppose I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Republican party, which is probably understandable having worked in campaigns and growing up in a house of Republicans. I just can't see myself ever identifying with a party again, and that's probably double for the Democrats. My neutrality extends only so far. I could never register as a Democrat. How close is Nebraska to holding Open Primaries? (If that matters to Independents or the unaffiliated) Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 That's good stuff, BRB. I'm like you - a former Republican. I'm very happy as an independent. I suppose I still have a soft spot in my heart for the Republican party, which is probably understandable having worked in campaigns and growing up in a house of Republicans. I just can't see myself ever identifying with a party again, and that's probably double for the Democrats. My neutrality extends only so far. I could never register as a Democrat. How close is Nebraska to holding Open Primaries? (If that matters to Independents or the unaffiliated) Well...first our primaries would have to actually mean something. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 the gov't better reopen before we figure out we do not need them. Link to comment
Army Husker Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 the gov't better reopen before we figure out we do not need them. Didn't here used to be a long-running we don't need the gov't anarchy thread on here years ago? Link to comment
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