carlfense Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 the gov't better reopen before we figure out we do not need them. Didn't here used to be a long-running we don't need the gov't anarchy thread on here years ago? Yes! I can't remember what the user name was . . . socalhusker? Or something like that? Anarcho-capitalism! Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 the gov't better reopen before we figure out we do not need them. Too late, at least for THIS government. *not a joke- my words that is, not our government* Link to comment
carlfense Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 The problem summed up in Boehner's own words: The GOP leadership said it would offer legislation to temporarily increase the debt ceiling -- for about six weeks or so -- to allow time for negotiations with Obama over a broader budget deal. . . . "I would hope that the president would look at this as an opportunity and a good-faith effort on our part to move halfway to what he's demanding in order to have these conversations begin," Boehner said following a closed-door meeting with fellow Republicans. Republicans are still trying to convince the public that doing what everyone agrees must be done is a giant concession on their part. Gee, thanks guys. Thanks for averting an economic catastrophe. 2 Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The problem summed up in Boehner's own words: The GOP leadership said it would offer legislation to temporarily increase the debt ceiling -- for about six weeks or so -- to allow time for negotiations with Obama over a broader budget deal. . . . "I would hope that the president would look at this as an opportunity and a good-faith effort on our part to move halfway to what he's demanding in order to have these conversations begin," Boehner said following a closed-door meeting with fellow Republicans. Republicans are still trying to convince the public that doing what everyone agrees must be done is a giant concession on their part. Gee, thanks guys. Thanks for averting an economic catastrophe. Please remind me, why does the debt ceiling HAVE to be raised? Not a smart ass question, just not seeing what the potential problems are if it is not raised. I'm probably missing something. Link to comment
knapplc Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The debt ceiling represents money Congress (including Mr. Boehner) has already spent. The debt ceiling is the limit of money that the government can borrow. The government needs to borrow this money to cover already-existing bills, because it doesn't have ready cash on hand. Because this debt exists whether they increase the debt ceiling or not, this action is largely grandstanding and irrelevant. Raising the debt ceiling is so unusual and controversial that it's only been done 78 times since 1960. That's, on average, about 1.5 times per year, every year, for the last half century. The ONLY REASON the line is being drawn in the sand is that the Republicans are terrified that Obamacare will become funded (which it was supposed to have been as of 10/1/13), and their doom-and-gloom predictions won't come true. They are playing chicken with the United States economy because they failed to stop Obamacare from becoming law, and they're pissed about it. 1 Link to comment
sd'sker Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The ONLY REASON the line is being drawn in the sand is that the Republicans are terrified that Obamacare will become funded (which it was supposed to have been as of 10/1/13), and their doom-and-gloom predictions won't come true. They are playing chicken with the United States economy because they failed to stop Obamacare from becoming law, and they're pissed about it. i think this is the most important part to all of this. they are not afraid of obamacare being the end of western civilization, they are afraid people will like it. it will expose that their ideology, at least in regards to the gov't not ever being able to help, will be discredited and they will be exposed as frauds incapable of coming up with any solution at all, even if not ideal, to america's very real problems. they fear that this represents their obsolescence. 1 Link to comment
carlfense Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Please remind me, why does the debt ceiling HAVE to be raised? Not a smart ass question, just not seeing what the potential problems are if it is not raised. I'm probably missing something. Primer on the debt ceiling: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/04/absolutely-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-debt-ceiling/ Link to comment
carlfense Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 They are playing chicken with the United States economy because they failed to stop Obamacare from becoming law, and they're pissed about it. . . . but they're slowly realizing that Mike Lee and Ted Cruz sold them a bill of goods and they can't stop Obamacare so now they're desperately trying to pretend that they haven't lost. Link to comment
carlfense Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 The ONLY REASON the line is being drawn in the sand is that the Republicans are terrified that Obamacare will become funded (which it was supposed to have been as of 10/1/13), and their doom-and-gloom predictions won't come true. They are playing chicken with the United States economy because they failed to stop Obamacare from becoming law, and they're pissed about it. i think this is the most important part to all of this. they are not afraid of obamacare being the end of western civilization, they are afraid people will like it. it will expose that their ideology, at least in regards to the gov't not ever being able to help, will be discredited and they will be exposed as frauds incapable of coming up with any solution at all, even if not ideal, to america's very real problems. they fear that this represents their obsolescence. Exactly right. If they were truly concerned about Obamacare failing they'd let it fail. They actually fear (and I suspect that they are right to fear) that it will succeed. Then what? They'll probably pretend that they were for it all along. Just like Medicare and Social Security. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The debt ceiling represents money Congress (including Mr. Boehner) has already spent. The debt ceiling is the limit of money that the government can borrow. The government needs to borrow this money to cover already-existing bills, because it doesn't have ready cash on hand. Because this debt exists whether they increase the debt ceiling or not, this action is largely grandstanding and irrelevant. I agree with this point. Spending needs to be under control on the front end. The problem is, not one idiot in Washington has any motivation to ever cut spending. Voters LOVE their representative that "takes care of" them. That means more spending and more spending. When you elect officials that got there by being the best at talking you into giving them your money so they can go win their job, it is idiotic then to think once they get into office they will all of a sudden respect your money and not constantly ask for more to KEEP their job. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Exactly right. If they were truly concerned about Obamacare failing they'd let it fail. They actually fear (and I suspect that they are right to fear) that it will succeed. Then what? They'll probably pretend that they were for it all along. Just like Medicare and Social Security. or they would have proposed a viable alternative. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Our system of spending and borrowing is totally f'd up if you ask me. What kind of process allows them to pass bills that spend money we don't have without building in the actual payment of said bill? If any family or business operated their finances this way they would go tits up. Oh wait, nevermind, the country is basically tits up. I think that is a fair assessment considering the debt ceiling is about $17 trillion dollars. It's a little too late to grandstand now. I appreciate the lip service for a balanced budget and not raising the debt ceiling but that's all it is from either side. Make no mistake, both sides got us into this mess. Now it just suits their immediate purposes to draw the line over yet another inane move. Advice for both parties; Repubs- Quit spending our money like drunken sailors and then acting like you're doing us a favor by refusing to pay for your spending spree. Dems- Quit spending our money like drunken sailors and then acting like the world will end if you can't spend more. 1 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Repubs- Quit spending our money like drunken sailors and then acting like you're doing us a favor by refusing to pay for your spending spree. Dems- Quit spending our money like drunken sailors and then acting like the world will end if you can't spend more. BINGO!!!!! But, there is absolutely no motivation to do either of these because both sides keep their voting block. Right now the Republicans are a mess. It is possible that out of this mess might actually be a party that gets back more towards the middle and doesn't alienate everyone except agree old white men. Link to comment
carlfense Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Repubs- Quit spending our money like drunken sailors and then acting like you're doing us a favor by refusing to pay for your spending spree. Dems- Quit spending our money like drunken sailors and then acting like the world will end if you can't spend more. Lifting the debt ceiling doesn't allow more spending. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Repubs- Quit spending our money like drunken sailors and then acting like you're doing us a favor by refusing to pay for your spending spree. Dems- Quit spending our money like drunken sailors and then acting like the world will end if you can't spend more. Lifting the debt ceiling doesn't allow more spending. That is exactly the problem, things are bassakwards. Raising the debt ceiling SHOULD allow more spending and capping or reducing it SHOULD limit spending. That is how it is supposed to work, anyplace other than in good ole Washington DC anyway. And, indirectly it does/will allow more spending. they realize that they can simply pass bills that have a cost attached and then go back later and raise the ceiling. Link to comment
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