Government Shutdown

[rawhide]

I get lovely letters from Boxer, Pelosi and Feinstein ignoring the stance I take but let me know how they feel about the issue. I doubt they actually read my emails. Haven't been any SS around lately.

[knapplc]

I get lovely letters from Boxer, Pelosi and Feinstein ignoring the stance I take but let me know how they feel about the issue. I doubt they actually read my emails. Haven't been any SS around lately.

 

I blame you for Pelosi & Feinstein. You need to vote those idiots out of office.

 

(for the sensitive - I mean "idiots" in the nicest way)

[NUance]

I get lovely letters from Boxer, Pelosi and Feinstein ignoring the stance I take but let me know how they feel about the issue. I doubt they actually read my emails. Haven't been any SS around lately.

 

I blame you for Pelosi & Feinstein. You need to vote those idiots out of office.

 

(for the sensitive - I mean "idiots" in the nicest way)

It's okay to call politicians idiots around here. In fact, it's encouraged. Especially those two.

[JJ Husker]

 

 

I blame you for Pelosi & Feinstein. You need to vote those idiots out of office.

 

(for the sensitive - I mean "idiots" in the nicest way)

 

Well I'm offended that you "softened" it.

[krill]

 

So... who's playing games?

 

 

Both sides!!!!

 

I have a hard time understanding how it's both sides when Boehner could allow a vote right now for a temporary spending bill that would pass (with a bi-partisn majority) end the shutdown, but he won't because 40 or so tea party backed reps would probably mutiny against his speakership.

 

Although, I give Boehner some credit for at least starting to ice any ideas of another another battle over default with the debt ceiling needing resolution in the next few weeks. If he were to be forced out in favor of someone truly crazy like Cantor, we would be in a much worse situation.

[zoogs]

I'm of the opinion that unfortunately, it's not Boehner at fault (totally). It's the damn crazy wing of the Republican party and the amount of influence they have. Boehner would lose his job if he didn't at least somewhat keep them in line....and you might say, "Well, eff Boehner for caring about his job only", but if he's ousted, do we really want the alternative? A true Tea Party radical in his place? So I don't think Boehner is that bad, but he has a tough reality to deal with in his own party.

 

As for the "both sides" argument, I get it, I get it. It's popular to rail on about government dysfunction....but then again, that's exactly the Republican game. Not all Republicans, but the zealot faction. Any reasonable observer will acknowledge that they caused this mess, that they are actively flailing around and hurting other parts of the country because they do not have the political ability to actually get what they want via the legislative process.

 

The only way this doesn't end in utter political suicide for them - and that's a possibility, still - is if they somehow manage to get the country to think, "Hey, it's everyone, not just us." They are making a huge effort to do that. And it's plainly succeeding, to a degree.

 

NYTimes: The moderates who lighted the fuse

 

The problem for Republicans was that playing a “responsible” role appeared to consign them to permanent minority status. For a 40-year span beginning in 1955, Republicans were in a minority in the House and were in the majority for only six years in the Senate. By the early 1990s, even moderate House Republicans felt that the ruling Democrats had grown arrogant and corrupt.

 

As moderates came to believe that nothing was to be gained from cooperating with Democrats, they became more receptive to Mr. Gingrich’s argument that the way to dislodge the entrenched majority was to polarize the electorate while attacking Congress as an irredeemable and illegitimate institution.

[BigRedBuster]

I'm of the opinion that unfortunately, it's not Boehner at fault (totally). It's the damn crazy wing of the Republican party and the amount of influence they have. Boehner would lose his job if he didn't at least somewhat keep them in line....and you might say, "Well, eff Boehner for caring about his job only", but if he's ousted, do we really want the alternative? A true Tea Party radical in his place? So I don't think Boehner is that bad, but he has a tough reality to deal with in his own party.

 

As for the "both sides" argument, I get it, I get it. It's popular to rail on about government dysfunction....but then again, that's exactly the Republican game. Not all Republicans, but the zealot faction. Any reasonable observer will acknowledge that they caused this mess, that they are actively flailing around and hurting other parts of the country because they do not have the political ability to actually get what they want via the legislative process.

 

The only way this doesn't end in utter political suicide for them - and that's a possibility, still - is if they somehow manage to get the country to think, "Hey, it's everyone, not just us." They are making a huge effort to do that. And it's plainly succeeding, to a degree.

 

NYTimes: The moderates who lighted the fuse

 

The problem for Republicans was that playing a “responsible” role appeared to consign them to permanent minority status. For a 40-year span beginning in 1955, Republicans were in a minority in the House and were in the majority for only six years in the Senate. By the early 1990s, even moderate House Republicans felt that the ruling Democrats had grown arrogant and corrupt.

 

As moderates came to believe that nothing was to be gained from cooperating with Democrats, they became more receptive to Mr. Gingrich’s argument that the way to dislodge the entrenched majority was to polarize the electorate while attacking Congress as an irredeemable and illegitimate institution.

 

 

OK...here is why I blame EVERYONE!!!!! and BOTH sides!!!!!

 

Yes, right now, the Republicans are being a bunch of idiots. I have said that over and over again in this thread and others.

 

However, this isn't an isolated incident that happens that wasn't affected by other actions.

 

For the last 20+ years, this has been building. Politics in the US are ludicrous. At first it was a low murmur of bickering from both sides. During the Reagan to Bush 1 years, Democrats sat if office, actually caused multiple shut downs. But, it was civil enough that actually stuff got done thanks to Reagan and Tip O'Neill. Then came the Clinton era and the idiot Republicans ramped it up some. Instead of sticking to the issues, they went off on rants about blue dresses...etc. Then, came the Bush II era. The Dems, being pissed about how Clinton was treated, took what the Republicans did and went bonkers. They accused Bush, Rice, Cheney and everyone else of absolutely everything absurd under the son. Heck, they even had idiots like Mikey Moore in Hollywood making movies that accused the administration of some of the most outlandish crap you could imagine and actually, idiots believed it.

 

THEN......came Obama......Now, the Republicans are pissed about how the Dems treated Bush II and they decide to take what happened and put it on steroids. Then, you throw the media into it that now is nothing more than mouth pieces for both parties and they are pressed to have some new issue on the air waves every second of every day and they don't double check ANYTHING and they just run with it because if they don't, the next network is going to scoop it out from under them. If they don't make it the most outlandish coverage possible, the stupid American public will switch channels to get their adrenalin fix off the news.

 

JUST STOP IT NOW!!!!!

 

When is the American people going to WAKE UP TO THIS!!!! This is just one issue. This is a big issue now and it makes us forget the gazillion other "big" issues that this total pile of crap we call politics has produced.

 

You know what is going to happen? If Vegas had a way to do this, I would bet a lot of money.

 

Some day, the Republicans are going to pull their heads out of their collective asses enough to get lucky enough to get elected to the White House. The Dems at that point, will start making absolutely the most outlandish accusations there are about who is in office and what they are trying to do. They will claim he is the next Hitler and that all he is concerned about are his fat cat corporate parters and bla bla bla...

 

And, all of US will still be sitting right here bickering back and forth and stuck in the middle.

 

So, sorry if I am blaming both sides here. They are all a pathetic excuse for leadership. The problem is, WE keep electing them there because we get all emotional about what THEY want us to be emotional about so that we keep voting for them.

 

 

I have tried my best to separate myself from that. I admit I have failed every once in a while. But, I try my best to analyze issues and bills as it affects me. Not how one side portrays it or how one side wants me to think about it.

 

 

Sorry for the long rant. Maybe it's time for me to start getting ready for an 11:00 kickoff tomorrow.

 

[zoogs]

The problem is, WE keep electing them there because we get all emotional about what THEY want us to be emotional about so that we keep voting for them.

I have tried my best to separate myself from that.

 

Politics has always been about politics, for lack of a better word. My argument is you getting so worked up about this is the Republican party successfully appealing to a very common sense of pessimism about government. The dysfunction we like to hate. There's no question every side plays politics, but that's what this is, too.

[BigRedBuster]

The problem is, WE keep electing them there because we get all emotional about what THEY want us to be emotional about so that we keep voting for them.

I have tried my best to separate myself from that.

 

Politics has always been about politics, for lack of a better word. My argument is you getting so worked up about this is the Republican party successfully appealing to a very common sense of pessimism about government. The dysfunction we like to hate. There's no question every side plays politics, but that's what this is, too.

 

So, we revolt against Republicans and act all supportive of Dems. You know what? The Dems are laughing behind closed doors. NOT at Republicans but at us. They know the Republicans are simply playing the same game they would if the rolls were reversed. BUT, they are laughing because they now have YOUR support to keep them in power.

 

It's a matter of which puppet master is able to pull the strings today and we as puppets just get to be happy when THEY allow us to be have our strings pulled.

[zoogs]

It's more like we have (in effect) a two-party system of limited government designed to resist change by pitting them against each other. It's not perfect, it's certainly not fast, but it's stable and has its considerable strengths. However, I think it's entirely reasonable to root for one course of action over another and in this case, the House Repubs and their crazy wing are taking a ridiculous course of action (at least in my opinion) and trying to weasel out of it with a distracting PR angle.

 

Do you know why we're not puppets? Because of the Constitution. The federal government isn't allowed to be that powerful.

 

The system will never be perfect and yeah, we can talk about what could make it better...at the same time, there are always present, front and center issues and it seems silly to duck out of that discussion with a more general "Congress sucks" rant. Certainly it's always in the minority party's interest to stoke the fires of civil discontent, because they're not getting their way. However, we should probably be less interested in the shift in balance between the parties over time and more interested in the present issues they're addressing.

[BigRedBuster]

This is why we are puppets.

 

Gerrymandering has caused the politician to not have to talk to the middle at all. They can simply pander to their extremes that believe the total crap that comes out of their mouths and it really doesn't matter how many people are in the middle.

 

When I am around strong Dems I feel like I am the most conservative person on the planet. When I am around strong Republicans I feel like I am the most liberal person on the planet. And....the politicians LOVE it.

[BigRedBuster]

If anyone would read this board, they would think various members were complete opposite in political views. Now....really look at the Political Compass thread. Don't you find it odd that so many of us are right around each other and the two politicians that we were polarized apart from each other a couple years ago are close to each other but exact opposite of us?

 

They have figured out how to drive wedges in the population, both of them LOVE how they have set us up and will do anything to keep it that way. That is why certain issues will never be resolved. Wonder why the abortion issue has never been solved? It's because actually, both sides in Washington would lose power over our vote if they did. That's just one example of many issues that are treated the same way.

[BigRedBuster]

I better go get ready for tomorrow. I have a beer in my fridge calling me.

 

Have a great weekend and GO BIG RED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tschu]

Some day, the Republicans are going to pull their heads out of their collective asses

extremely unlikely. especially considering the fact that their approach for the past decade or so is to shove their head further up their collective asses.

 

the american people are getting increasingly tired of the GOP's archaic worldview. christianity and upper-class-centric fiscal policy are no longer appealing to the next generation. And we have more information available to us than has ever been available, letting the population see past the shenanigans of the "good ole boy" networks.

 

RIP, GOP

1854-2008

[carlfense]

Among the many shutdowns during the Reagan administration, one occurred because the Democrats tied their desired Contra funding levels and their anti-talk radio Fairness Doctrine (in other words, stuff that had little if anything to do with the budget) to the continued funding of the government. As I said, nothing new under the sun.

Did you actually read what I said? Here it is again if you didn't:

Surely you can back this up with examples where a slim majority in the House threw this sort of tantrum over entirely constitutional, already passed and enacted legislation, right? Maybe even some within my lifetime?

I'll wait. Or you could just drop the charade and admit that this is an unprecedented tantrum.

 

 

 

Now, do you or do you not condemn the Wisconsin and Indiana Democrats for shutting down the legislative process when they didn't like the result of an election? You seem happy to blast Republicans for childish obstructionism. What about criminal obstructionism?

If you'd like to switch the subject to Wisconsin (which would probably hint that your argument regarding the shutdown isn't going well) I'd recommend starting a thread about it.

 

Yes I can think of other factors, namely Obama wanting this to hurt as much as possible.

I'm still not entirely sure if you're trolling or if you actually believe the party line. I suspect the former.