Fair Trade - far from Free

[TGHusker]

Pat Buchanan brings up several issues in this article. see link below (ignore the WND site - just the article )

 

1. We outsourced manufacturing jobs and along with it - the pollution issue. However, now China has huge problem wt air pollution - which is floating the trade winds back to the USA,

2. We have towns in the USA that are drying up wt the lost manufacturing

3. We have a stagnant income growth for the middle and lower classes (something many on this board have noted )

4. We have a top 1% that keeps getting richer

5. The younger generation has fewer jobs and lower income jobs to choose from - they were the ones who were designed to keep ObamaCare a float - (won't happen with the present # signing up).

6. China's economy will overtake our economy before too long

7. Historically, free trade has caused leading economies to fall behind

 

My take: Policy overhaul. It is time to bring jobs back to the USA. Trade/tax incentives must be such that it will drive business back to the USA and attract foreign companies to do business here. One can argue that higher labor costs will only drive prices up for consumer goods - however, higher labor can be offset by technology, productivity, lower transportation costs, etc. Besides when I go to Walmart and I have a choice to buy American underwear or foreign which is cheaper - I buy the Fruit of the Loom make in the USA. (yea too much info you didn't need to know )

The conspiracy side of me would say, you cannot un-ring that bell, the ship has sailed, the door has closed - big bankers want nothing more than to lower the influence of America by lowering our economy as they enrich themselves and their big corporate friends by the cheap labor from around the world. If we have a lower tax revenue, but increase spending, then someone has to finance all of that redistributive spending and our big bankers are more than happy to accommodate.

 

The social responsibility side of me would say, we cannot save the world if we are weak. We have to save ourselves 1st by making sure our the fundamentals of our economy are strong. Manufacturing is a primary building block for our economy.

 

http://www.wnd.com/2...-far-from-free/

[BigRedBuster]

This is a very important topic to the US. We are the largest market for goods in the world and so much of it is made somewhere else while people are unemployed here.

 

Here are issues I think all of us can agree on:

 

- We want the lowest unemployment possible with people employed in jobs that allows them to either live on as a career or ability to move up to that type of job.

- We want clean environment.

- We want the US to be a place where business can be innovative and thrive while being socially responsible.

 

Can we at least all agree with that?

 

So, the US has a decent environmental record right now compared to many other developing countries where are products are actually made. We have employment law that attempts to keep workers safe at work and at least a minimum wage (We can argue all day long if that is too high or too low). At the same time, we see jobs leaving more and more and more.

 

I have worked in a couple industries where products were made in the US but as time went on, more and more of it was made over seas. From my observation, what happens is the industry is going along just fine competing with companies all abiding by the same regulations here in the US. THEN, one competitor can't compete on quality of products or service. SO, that competitor starts having his products made over seas for 40-50% less. Since the public doesn't know really where anything is made, they look at the cheaper product and don't give a flying rip that it's made by 8 year olds in a sweat shop in the jungles of South East Asia and buys that product. Meanwhile, the rest of the industry is losing major market share so to compete, they must do the same thing.

 

Now, in my industries, I have seen some jobs come back due to it just being a pain in the azz doing business with China and certain business practices are changing in China.

 

But, that is the life cycle of the markets I have seen.

 

So......how do we change that? I personally think we need to put a tariff on any product that directly competes with an American made product that would equalize the cost of those products.

 

Now, the socially conscious side of me thinks there has to be a way that we can require all products that are imported to the US to be made by our employment and environmental standards. But, I think that would be much harder to do.

 

 

Some have suggested that we punish any American company that sends jobs over seas. Well....that's fine and dandy. But, that doesn't account for the company that is competing with a foreign owned company and importing to the US. If we just punish the US company, that makes them even LESS competitive.

 

This is a very complicated issue. I do know that what we have done in the past has NOT worked. We need new ideas. Fair trade with countries that aren't ethical doesn't work. More and more regulations and punishment on US businesses while having free trade with those countries doesn't work.

[knapplc]

But... if the wealthiest 1% are thriving, and they're the job creators, why aren't they creating jobs?

 

Don't tell me that whole "job creators" thing was untrue!

[Creighton Duke]

At the exponential speed that the world is globalizing, I try not the look too closely at individuals nations and instead focus on world economy. Outsourcing is going to happen and numerous other nations have much more attractive atmospheres/policies in place to attract start-ups Tough to compete if the U.S. still wants to "play by the rules".

[AR Husker Fan]

This is a very important topic to the US. We are the largest market for goods in the world and so much of it is made somewhere else while people are unemployed here.

 

Here are issues I think all of us can agree on:

 

- We want the lowest unemployment possible with people employed in jobs that allows them to either live on as a career or ability to move up to that type of job.

- We want clean environment.

- We want the US to be a place where business can be innovative and thrive while being socially responsible.

 

Can we at least all agree with that?

 

Without a doubt.

 

***SNIP***

 

So......how do we change that? I personally think we need to put a tariff on any product that directly competes with an American made product that would equalize the cost of those products.

 

The problem with tariffs, historically, is that the country against whom we impose the tariffs retaliate by imposing their own tariffs on our exports. Since we manufacture far less than we used to, a large proportion of the tariffs fall to agriculture - both farming and ranching/raising stock. The problem there is that we are so efficient in agriculture we produce far more food than we need. If we could not export the surplus, you'd see a huge number of farmers and ranchers going under. Therefore, even assuming you could get past the lobbies that would object, you'd set up an enormous hit against an absolutely vital sector of the economy.

 

So, I also agree with another statement - we need fresh ideas.

[strigori]

As costs rise in markets like China, and an increased demand for American Made goods, more manufacturing will slowly return to the US. As globalization and information spread, the workers in many of these low wage countries are demanding better pay and conditions. And its only a matter of time before China goes after these companies for some of the cost of cleaning up the mess they have made. International Courts in Europe are unlikely to find in favor of the companies who knowingly polluted the hell out of everything, and new what the results would be.

 

What's funny is Pat Buchanan is taking a side with parts of it that are traditionally not part of the right wing. Outsourcing was considered a good thing as it lowered costs and increased profits. Low wages are good for the companies too.

[Dbqgolfer]

This is actually an area where Pat Buchanon has always been at odds with the Republican party. I remember back in 1992 he challenged Bush 41 in the Republican primary when Bush was running for reelection. Pat's platform was about not outsourcing and buying American made products. He kept calling Bush "King George". He was actually doing pretty well, considering he was running in a primary against an incumbent. The New Hampshire Union-Leader even endorsed him. His momentum fell apart when Bush ran an add pointing out that Buchanan drove a Mercedes, not an American made car.(oops, how did he not see that coming)

[BigRedBuster]

This is a very important topic to the US. We are the largest market for goods in the world and so much of it is made somewhere else while people are unemployed here.

 

Here are issues I think all of us can agree on:

 

- We want the lowest unemployment possible with people employed in jobs that allows them to either live on as a career or ability to move up to that type of job.

- We want clean environment.

- We want the US to be a place where business can be innovative and thrive while being socially responsible.

 

Can we at least all agree with that?

 

Without a doubt.

 

***SNIP***

 

So......how do we change that? I personally think we need to put a tariff on any product that directly competes with an American made product that would equalize the cost of those products.

 

The problem with tariffs, historically, is that the country against whom we impose the tariffs retaliate by imposing their own tariffs on our exports. Since we manufacture far less than we used to, a large proportion of the tariffs fall to agriculture - both farming and ranching/raising stock. The problem there is that we are so efficient in agriculture we produce far more food than we need. If we could not export the surplus, you'd see a huge number of farmers and ranchers going under. Therefore, even assuming you could get past the lobbies that would object, you'd set up an enormous hit against an absolutely vital sector of the economy.

 

So, I also agree with another statement - we need fresh ideas.

 

 

Well, you have to be creative with the tariffs. You have to do it in a way that motivates other countries to manufacture to our standards so the playing field is level. You want out of the tariffs? Pay your employees what we pay and have similar environmental laws as we do. Do those two things and I'm fine not having a tariff. Give American companies and workers just the chance to compete on a level playing field and I believe we will kick their azz.