Givers and Takers

[carlfense]

Hmmm....not really. it's a very small portion of the public that doesn't pay ANY taxes. But, there are some who don't.

Sure . . . but again, look at the garbage truck operator example that I provided. According to the metric used by the Cybercast News Service one of those is a maker and one of those is a taker. Why?

[tschu]

Because it fits the rhetoric that's why

[BigRedBuster]

Everyone pays taxes.

That's what I was getting at. But if you include all full time workers (and part time workers . . . who also happen to pay taxes) then the numbers don't look as scary. They wouldn't want that!

 

Not to mention the fact that the article talks about "[t]he 147,802,000 non-veteran benefit takers outnumbered the 86,429,000 full-time private sector workers" like they're distinct groups.

 

Silly.

 

My comment wasn't specifically about the original article. It was about the concept that fewer people paying for more people isn't a problem.

 

There are claims in the original article that are taken to a ridiculous stretch that I'm not going defend. The social security system alone is a good example of what happens when fewer people supporting more and more people. The system is stretched to it's limits and has the chance of not sustaining itself.

 

The auto industry is another example. When the auto industry went down in the US, you had huge corporations with debts to retired people in their pensions but you had fewer and fewer people working to pay into those pensions from a market place that wasn't creating enough cash flow to fund the pensions. But.....those millions of retired people still demanded those pensions. The system collapses under it's own weight.

 

The city of Detroit pensions are the same way.

 

These are (relatively speaking) smaller examples of what can happen in a society if more and more people expect more and more from the government with fewer and fewer people paying in.

[sd'sker]

the problem with social security is that it was borrowed from and never repaid. there are also many small changes to social security that could go a long way.

 

also, the idea of a pension is that you pay into it and get back what you pay in. that was a benefit given to employees, like healthcare, because companies could not attract workers with just higher wages. this is now a distant memory, but there was a time when workers had leverage.

But.....those millions of retired people still demanded those pensions.

why the hell wouldn't they? that was the deal and owed income as far as they were concerned.

[carlfense]

. . . Silly.

My comment wasn't specifically about the original article.

I called the original article silly . . . and you responded "Not really." I suppose I interpreted that to mean that you thought the original article wasn't silly.

 

See this exchange: http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/69897-givers-and-takers/page__view__findpost__p__1353954

Per this article 86m workers(givers) support 148m non-workers (takers)

Also, FWIW, the full time private sector (so called givers/makers) and everyone else (takers) distinction is silly, to say the least. Anyone who looks at the numbers and thinks critically will see why. Silly . . . effective propaganda, probably, but silly.

 

Not really.

[Junior]

 

Everyone pays taxes.

 

Hmmm....not really. it's a very small portion of the public that doesn't pay ANY taxes. But, there are some who don't.

http://www.hamiltonp...yone_pays_them/

 

A popular myth swirling around Washington, DC, and throughout the media these days is that many Americans do not pay taxes, and are therefore free-riding off of our society without contributing themselves. This has even been referred to by some as a “new orthodoxy.” The origin of this misconception is the observation that only about 54 percent of American households paid federal income taxes during recession-affected 2011. But that statistic is misleading because it provides an incomplete picture of the overall tax burden on American families, and because it incorporates individuals who naturally shouldn’t be paying taxes because of their age or economic circumstances due to the Recession. A closer look reveals that nearly all Americans do, in fact, pay taxes.

 

Toss in state income taxes, local sales taxes, and property taxes, and everyone pays taxes.

[carlfense]

But.....those millions of retired people still demanded those pensions.

why the hell wouldn't they? that was the deal and owed income as far as they were concerned.

Damn right.

[TGHusker]

Per this article 86m workers(givers) support 148m non-workers (takers)

Also, FWIW, the full time private sector (so called givers/makers) and everyone else (takers) distinction is silly, to say the least. Anyone who looks at the numbers and thinks critically will see why. Silly . . . effective propaganda, probably, but silly.

Well, it's a TGHusker thread about an article on a fringe-right-wing blog. Critical thinking? That ship sailed long ago.

It's an article found to provoke discussion - my whole purpose in posting it - fringe left or right - it accomplished the goal - discussion.

[carlfense]

Speaking of takers . . . how about the Walton family? This family alone has more wealth than 42% of American families combined. Accumulated through "making" like this:

Walmart’s low-wage workers cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $6.2 billion in public assistance including food stamps, Medicaid and subsidized housing, according to a report published to coincide with Tax Day, April 15.

http://www.forbes.co...lic-assistance/

[knapplc]

It's an article found to provoke discussion - my whole purpose in posting it - fringe left or right - it accomplished the goal - discussion.

 

We don't need BS from fringe sources to provide discussion here, thanks. We have plenty of things to talk about without dispensing with the usual drivel you choose to post for "discussion." If that's the only reason you're posting these threads... you can stop.

[BigRedBuster]

 

Everyone pays taxes.

 

Hmmm....not really. it's a very small portion of the public that doesn't pay ANY taxes. But, there are some who don't.

http://www.hamiltonp...yone_pays_them/

 

A popular myth swirling around Washington, DC, and throughout the media these days is that many Americans do not pay taxes, and are therefore free-riding off of our society without contributing themselves. This has even been referred to by some as a “new orthodoxy.” The origin of this misconception is the observation that only about 54 percent of American households paid federal income taxes during recession-affected 2011. But that statistic is misleading because it provides an incomplete picture of the overall tax burden on American families, and because it incorporates individuals who naturally shouldn’t be paying taxes because of their age or economic circumstances due to the Recession. A closer look reveals that nearly all Americans do, in fact, pay taxes.

 

Toss in state income taxes, local sales taxes, and property taxes, and everyone pays taxes.

I am pretty dang sure my mother and father in law who live in assisted living and don't own any property and get a refund each year that pretty much gives back anything they would have paid on their SS income don't pay taxes. They really don't go shopping any more to pay sales tax. The don't go out to eat..etc.

 

I'm pretty sure the homeless person on the streets of LA doesn't pay taxes.

[BigRedBuster]

But.....those millions of retired people still demanded those pensions.

why the hell wouldn't they? that was the deal and owed income as far as they were concerned.

Damn right.

 

They deserve the pensions because that's what they were promised. Too bad in many cases there isn't enough money to pay them.

[BigRedBuster]

It's an article found to provoke discussion - my whole purpose in posting it - fringe left or right - it accomplished the goal - discussion.

 

We don't need BS from fringe sources to provide discussion here, thanks. We have plenty of things to talk about without dispensing with the usual drivel you choose to post for "discussion." If that's the only reason you're posting these threads... you can stop.

 

 

Well...there you go TG....I guess you can only post topics for discussion that meet certain criteria of certain people on this board.

[carlfense]

I am pretty dang sure my mother and father in law who live in assisted living and don't own any property and get a refund each year that pretty much gives back anything they would have paid on their SS income don't pay taxes. They really don't go shopping any more to pay sales tax. The don't go out to eat..etc.

Who owns the assisted living building? Do you think they pay taxes?

 

Is their food raised/transported/etc. using fuel? Do you think that fuel is taxed?

 

We could go on . . .

[Junior]

 

Everyone pays taxes.

 

Hmmm....not really. it's a very small portion of the public that doesn't pay ANY taxes. But, there are some who don't.

http://www.hamiltonp...yone_pays_them/

 

A popular myth swirling around Washington, DC, and throughout the media these days is that many Americans do not pay taxes, and are therefore free-riding off of our society without contributing themselves. This has even been referred to by some as a “new orthodoxy.” The origin of this misconception is the observation that only about 54 percent of American households paid federal income taxes during recession-affected 2011. But that statistic is misleading because it provides an incomplete picture of the overall tax burden on American families, and because it incorporates individuals who naturally shouldn’t be paying taxes because of their age or economic circumstances due to the Recession. A closer look reveals that nearly all Americans do, in fact, pay taxes.

 

Toss in state income taxes, local sales taxes, and property taxes, and everyone pays taxes.

I am pretty dang sure my mother and father in law who live in assisted living and don't own any property and get a refund each year that pretty much gives back anything they would have paid on their SS income don't pay taxes. They really don't go shopping any more to pay sales tax. The don't go out to eat..etc.

 

I'm pretty sure the homeless person on the streets of LA doesn't pay taxes.

 

Yep, that makes up a significant portion of the population. You're really reaching now.