NUance Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Seems like there are quite a few HB posters who do not believe in God. I’m one who does believe. And here’s one reason why. I was raised Baptist. My parents dutifully dragged me to Sunday school and church nearly every Sunday while I was growing up. This gave me a good bible background. But my faith stems from an experience I had, not from Baptist doctrine. The last year I attended Sunday school in my church (I was about 18 at the time) I had a really cool, young teacher in my Sunday school class. Mark rode a motorcycle and was a carpenter by trade. (I kid you not—a carpenter. Like Jesus.) Unbeknownst to me Mark was also a Charismatic Christian, a group he belonged to outside of our church. Charismatics are the Holy Rollers you always hear people making fun of. They’re big into the Holy Spirit. And are frowned upon by most conventional churches, including the Baptist church I belonged to. One Sunday during our Sunday school class a friend of mine asked our Sunday School teacher Mark what it meant to be a Charismatic, and what it was all about. Mark explained the Charismatic movement to us, discussed the Holy Spirit, and then taught us a prayer asking for the Holy Spirit to enter our hearts. The Holy Spirit moved him to briefly speak in tongues. At that time I felt the Holy Spirit enter and overwhelm me. I was imbued with the Holy Spirit. It was an incredibly powerful experience, and lasted for most of that day. It was an experience like no other in my life. It made a great impression upon me. It made me know that God is real. But the speaking in tongues episode did not work out so well for my Sunday school teacher. The powers that be in our little Baptist Church did not look favorably upon Mark's demonstration of the Holy Spirit. Sadly, they removed him from our Sunday School class and he did not teach again after that. They may have even asked him to leave the church. I never saw him at that Church again. I’m not a Charismatic Christian. And I certainly don't claim to have all the answers. But that one experience of being imbued by the Holy Spirit was enough for me realize the truth of God. To know the truth of God. I feel sorry for people who are adamant atheists. They are going down the wrong path. 5 Link to comment
carlfense Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Maybe there was a gas leak at the church? (Kidding.) That's a cool story and I'm glad that your faith brings you happiness. Link to comment
NUance Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Maybe there was a gas leak at the church? (Kidding.) That's a cool story and I'm glad that your faith brings you happiness. Ha ha! Yeah, I realize that my little experience doesn't prove anything, or mean anything to anyone other than me. I'm just throwing it out there for your consideration. Make of it what you will. But if you believe what I'm saying (or at least believe that I believe it), then you'll know where at least some Christians are coming from. Link to comment
carlfense Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ha ha! Yeah, I realize that my little experience doesn't prove anything, or mean anything to anyone other than me. I'm just throwing it out there for your consideration. Make of it what you will. But if you believe what I'm saying (or at least believe that I believe it), then you'll know where at least some Christians are coming from. Well, I was raised similarly and was quite devout. Attended mid-week youth groups without parental encouragement and eventually even taught some. There wasn't a doubt in my mind . . . until there was. Hard to explain but it unravelled pretty quickly. 1 Link to comment
beanman Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I always thought that people who claimed to speak in tongues and such were all nut-balls. Now that NUance brings up this story it makes me wonder... Not sure it sways me one direction or the other, but it is interesting and thanks for sharing. I'm more on the "There is probably a God but I don't believe anything in the Bible" camp, but I've been on the fence for many many years. I just try to live my life, teach my kids not to be a-holes and to be good people and I try to do the right things in life and not screw over my fellow humans. Hopefully that's good enough : ) 1 Link to comment
NUance Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 I always thought that people who claimed to speak in tongues and such were all nut-balls. Now that NUance brings up this story it makes me wonder... Not sure it sways me one direction or the other, but it is interesting and thanks for sharing. I'm more on the "There is probably a God but I don't believe anything in the Bible" camp, but I've been on the fence for many many years. I just try to live my life, teach my kids not to be a-holes and to be good people and I try to do the right things in life and not screw over my fellow humans. Hopefully that's good enough : ) That's the thing. Speaking in tongues is an odd looking experience--to others anyway. I've never spoken in tongues. I don't even know if I have that gift. In fact, I wonder if some of the people who speak in tongues or claim to have other miraculous gifts are faking it. I'm sure some are. But I'm also sure some aren't. At least I'm sure the Sunday School teacher Mark was not a fake. Another thing that perplexes me is why some people receive the Holy Spirit and others don't. I know a lot of people who seem so lead solid Christian lives who have not received the Holy Spirit. They don't drink or smoke, or lose their temper or swear (all of which I am guilty of). And yet, Holy Spirit, nothing. I imagine it's difficult for those people who are fervent Christians in their own right to believe that others have received the Holy Spirit when they haven't. Just another unexplained mystery. Link to comment
knapplc Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Speaking in Tongues is an interesting thing. To some it's evidence that the Holy Spirit is working mightily in a person. To others it's bunk. Speaking in Tongues is not a new phenomenon. Plato reported it among practicers of pagan cults in his Dialogues around the 4th or 5th Century BC. It was described in the “Report of Wenamon” dating to about 1,100 BC. It is not relegated to Christianity, or to "the Holy Spirit," it is something (apparently) many gods can - and do - do. The question would be, what's the point? In the Christian Bible there are a couple of references to speaking in tongues. The most famous, the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, had tremendously practical benefits: Acts 2: 1-11 1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them. 5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” The Holy Spirit gave the Gift of Tongues to Christians specifically so they could speak to the Gentiles in their own language, and thus understand the Gospel message. The sole reason this happened was to spread the Good News of Jesus' death & resurrection. That seems like a really great reason to give this gift, if you're God. But 1 Corinthians, Paul writes that "speaking in tongues" is not to be used amongst Christians, but for "unbelievers." Paul seems to be backing up the Holy Spirit's gift of language to the Apostles and denouncing the gibberish "glossolalia" so common amongst sham hucksters of the day. 1 Corinthians 14:20-25 Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers. If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you. The Gift of Tongues, were I a wise God, would not be bestowed on people simply so they could utter gibberish and nonsense and appear to be "filled with the Holy Spirit." Something so easily faked would provide little conviction in my estimation. Rather, were I that wise God, I would grant my followers the ability to speak in languages easily recognizable by a target audience, one who may not speak my follower's native tongue, so that my message of love and salvation (and my meatball recipe) could be spread more easily and rapidly around the world. Color me skeptical about the whole "speaking in tongues" phenomenon. 1 Link to comment
NUance Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Color me skeptical about the whole "speaking in tongues" phenomenon. I suspect this is true of every single person who has not received the Holy Spirit. Paul likened tongues to a clanging bell. And that's not a bad way to look at it. Link to comment
knapplc Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Color me skeptical about the whole "speaking in tongues" phenomenon. I suspect this is true of every single person who has not received the Holy Spirit. Paul likened tongues to a clanging bell. And that's not a bad way to look at it. Eh. I've received the Holy Spirit. Been there, done that, got the Confirmation Bible. I guess what I would ask is, what language was Mark speaking? French? Swahili? Tuvalu? Link to comment
Abdullah the Butcher Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I stopped going to church when I turned 18, too many illogical and contradictory things about Christianity. The science deniers turn me off the most, refusing to accept tested scientific theories and laws. My sister goes to a Christian college and refuses to believe any science that conflicts with the bible. 1 Link to comment
NUance Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Eh. I've received the Holy Spirit. Been there, done that, got the Confirmation Bible.I don't mean the act of being baptized or receiving a certificate of some sort. What I mean is being imbued by the Holy Spirit. That is, having the Holy Spirit enter you and overcome you. If you have any doubts that this happened, then you didn't receive the Holy Spirit. It's a powerful experience that can't be mistaken. And I can't imagine how someone could receive the Holy Spirit and not believe in God. To me that's incomprehensible. Also, about this thread in general, I'm just throwing this out for your consideration. So the atheist crowd, and even the Christians who haven't experienced the Holy Spirit, can know how some people feel about it. My own experience doesn't prove anything to anyone other than me. But for me, and me alone, it proves everything. I guess what I would ask is, what language was Mark speaking? French? Swahili? Tuvalu?Bell clanging. 1 Link to comment
Junior Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 And I can't imagine how someone could receive the Holy Spirit and not believe in God. To me that's incomprehensible. Well.... yea... To me too. Link to comment
knapplc Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I would have a tremendously difficult time believing in a God who wouldn't answer a man's heartfelt, decades-long prayers to imbue him with his Holy Spirit. Prayers as a child. Prayers as a young man. Prayers as a new husband. Prayers as a grandson/son heartbroken over the loss of family. Prayers as a Church leader seeking guidance and wisdom in his work for the congregation. If God refused to give me his unmistakable Holy Spirit after all that, literally months and months of my life spent in sincere, begging, abject, heartfelt prayer, then the problem wasn't on my end. Link to comment
NUance Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 I would have a tremendously difficult time believing in a God who wouldn't answer a man's heartfelt, decades-long prayers to imbue him with his Holy Spirit. Prayers as a child. Prayers as a young man. Prayers as a new husband. Prayers as a grandson/son heartbroken over the loss of family. Prayers as a Church leader seeking guidance and wisdom in his work for the congregation. If God refused to give me his unmistakable Holy Spirit after all that, literally months and months of my life spent in sincere, begging, abject, heartfelt prayer, then the problem wasn't on my end. I don't know the answer to that. I can only speak about my own experience. Link to comment
Scratchtown Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I would have a tremendously difficult time believing in a God who wouldn't answer a man's heartfelt, decades-long prayers to imbue him with his Holy Spirit. Prayers as a child. Prayers as a young man. Prayers as a new husband. Prayers as a grandson/son heartbroken over the loss of family. Prayers as a Church leader seeking guidance and wisdom in his work for the congregation. If God refused to give me his unmistakable Holy Spirit after all that, literally months and months of my life spent in sincere, begging, abject, heartfelt prayer, then the problem wasn't on my end. This was a head scratcher for me. I'm straight up confused on this. Taking your word of sincerity of course. Link to comment
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