IRS/Lois Lerner's email lost

[MidnightRider]

Well, how convenient. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ats-again.html

 

I'm sure some of you are familiar with backup and archiving procedures, not to mention laws regarding retention of all official gov email.

 

Please tell me again, how this isn't the most corrupt admin in the history of this country because I got nothing...

[knapplc]

Please tell me again, how this isn't the most corrupt admin in the history of this country because I got nothing...

 

This is an Obama problem?

[MidnightRider]

 

Please tell me again, how this isn't the most corrupt admin in the history of this country because I got nothing...

 

This is an Obama problem?

 

This and the rest of the travelling roadshow are his problems. You know as well as I do, leadership may not have been actively engaged (in this case, I'm convinced they were) in whatever transgression occurred, but the buck still stops with them.

[knapplc]

If this is another Thanks, Obama! thread then I'm out.

 

[carlfense]

I thought that we were supposed to be outraged over Benghazi? It's weird how the hot scandal of the moment keeps changing.

[MidnightRider]

I thought that we were supposed to be outraged over Benghazi? It's weird how the hot scandal of the moment keeps changing.

Yup. Kinda hard to keep track anymore.

[Saunders]

Well, how convenient. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ats-again.html

 

I'm sure some of you are familiar with backup and archiving procedures, not to mention laws regarding retention of all official gov email.

 

Please tell me again, how this isn't the most corrupt admin in the history of this country because I got nothing...

They're just another cog in the wheel....

[MidnightRider]

Here's a list of potential laws broken:

 

The following laws set forth basic legal requirements for federal records management and closely related activities at the IRS. Provision of these laws that are most relevant to IRS records management are codified at 5 USC §§ 552, 552a, 553; 18 USC § 641, 798, 2071; 26 USC §§ 6103, 7213; 31 USC § 3523; 40 USC §§ 1401-1503; and 44 USC Chapters 21, 29-35.

Administrative Procedure Act of June 11, 1946, Ch. 324, 60 Stat. 237;

Budget and Accounting Procedures Act of 1950, Pub. L. No. 80-784 (September 12, 1950);

Electronic Freedom of Information Act Amendments of 1996, Pub. L. No. 104-231 (October 2, 1996);

Federal Records Act of 1950, Act of June 30, 1949, Ch. 288, Title V, 64 Stat. 583, which requires, among other things, that the head of each federal agency establish and maintain an active, continuing program for the economical and efficient management of agency records;

Federal Records Management Amendments of 1976, Pub. L. No. 94-575 (October 21, 1976);

Freedom of Information Act, Pub. L. No. 89-487 (July 4, 1966) (as amended);

Government Paperwork Elimination Act, Pub. L. No. 105-277 (Division C) (October 21, 1998);

Information Technology Management Reform Act of 1996, Pub. L. No. 104-106 (Division E) (February 10, 1996);

National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) Act of 1984, Pub. L. No. 98-497 (October 19, 1984);

Paperwork Reduction Act of 1980, Pub. L. No. 96-511 (December 11, 1980) (as amended);

Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995, Pub. L. No. 104-13 (May 22, 1995);

Paperwork Reduction Reauthorization Act of 1986, Pub. L. No. 104-13 (October 18, 1986) (as amended);

Privacy Act of 1974, Pub. L. No. 93-579 (December 31, 1974) (as amended);

Records Disposal Act of 1943, Act of July 7, 1943, Ch. 192, 57 Stat. 380 (as amended);

Tax Reform Act of 1976, Pub. L. No. 94-455 (October 4, 1976) (as amended), providing for punishment by imprisonment, fine or both of IRS employees and contractors who disclose tax information to unauthorized individuals or who access tax information in an unauthorized fashion; and

Act of June 25, 1948, Ch. 645, § 1, 62 Stat. 795 (as amended), which prohibits the concealment, removal, or mutilation of federal records and punishes same by fine or imprisonment or both, and which is set forth at 18 USC § 2071. See also 18 USC §§ 641, 793-794, 798, and 952.

The following Executive Orders, regulations, agency orders, and policy documents set forth additional legal requirements and guidance for federal records management and closely related activities at the IRS.

Relating to the Civil Service Commission and Labor-Management in the Federal Service, Executive Order 12107, 44 Fed. Reg. 1,055 (January 3, 1979) (as amended), which supersedes Executive Order 10561 providing that official personnel folders are records of the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) and permitting OPM to prescribe regulations therefore;

National Industrial Security Program, Executive Order 19829, 58 Fed. Reg. 3,479 (January 8, 1993) (as amended);

Classified National Security Information, Executive Order 12958, 60 Fed. Reg. 19,825 (April 20, 1995) (as amended);

Personnel Records, 5 CFR Part 293, which contains a basic personnel records and files system for Federal agencies;

Records Management, 36 CFR Ch. XII, Subch. B;

Management Accountability and Control, OMB Circular A-123 (revised), 60 Fed. Reg. 33,876 (June 29, 1995);

Management of Federal Information Resources, OMB Circular A-130 (revised), Transmittal Memorandum No. 4 (November 28, 2000);

Records and Information Management Program, Treasury Directive 80–05 (February 23, 2000); and

Records Management, General Accounting Office Policy and Procedures Manual for Guidance of Federal Agencies, Title 8, Transmittal Sheet 8-8 (February 1991).

Federal Register: This is the official daily publication for rules, proposed rules, and notices of Federal agencies and organizations, as well as Executive Orders and other Presidential documents. This document is used to retrieve the IRS privacy act system of records;

Treasury Directive 80-05, RIM program: This directive provides policies and assigns responsibilities for records management, forms management, and interagency reports management. This directive also authorizes the issuance of Treasury Department Publication (TDP) 80-05, RIM Manual, which includes additional policy guidance for specific categories of records;

Other IRMs that relate to the RIM program: IRM 1.15.2 (Types of Records and Their Life Cycle); IRM 1.15.3 (Disposing of Records); IRM 1.15.4 (Retiring and Requesting Records); IRM 1.15.5 (Transferring/Removing Records); IRM 1.15.6 (Managing Electronic Records).

Note:

IRM 1.15.7 Files Management is referenced under RIM as it relates to other programs.

IRS Records Control Schedules (RCS) (formerly IRM 1.15.8 through IRM 1.15.37), now Document 12990, Catalog 57810D: These provide disposal authorizations for records accumulated by organizations/business units within IRS;

General Records Schedules (GRS): The Archivist of the United States (NARA) issues the GRS to provide disposal authorization for temporary administrative records common to all agencies of the Federal government. They include records relating to civilian personnel, fiscal accounting, procurement, communications, printing, and other common functions, and certain nontextual records. The IRS has incorporated the GRS in the IRS comprehensive RCS Manual as RCS 38 through RCS 64 (formerly IRM 1.15.38 through IRM 1.15.64), IRS Document 12829, Catalog 54713E.

 

And here's the link: http://http://www.irs.gov/irm/part1/irm_01-015-001.html

[BigRedBuster]

I wasn't able to get any of the links in this thread to work so I found this one:

 

LINK

 

Sort of shows their explanation as to how they lost the emails.

 

It is rather convenient that they are gone and she is refusing to testify.

[MidnightRider]

I wasn't able to get any of the links in this thread to work so I found this one:

 

LINK

 

Sort of shows their explanation as to how they lost the emails.

 

It is rather convenient that they are gone and she is refusing to testify.

My apologies on the links, they worked for me. As you stated, it is rather convenient. It is stunning to see how our elected officials and their appointees thumb their noses at us at every turn. Had this been some low level fed lackey, you'd still be able to see the mushroom cloud that formed over their cubicle once leadership caught wind of it.

 

And here's some more stuff they apparently feel that they don't have to comply with:

1.15.1.7.6 (08-19-2013)

Responsibilities of All IRS Employees

 

Each IRS employee must:

 

Manage the records they create and/or maintain in accordance with policies outlined in IRMs 1.15.1 through IRM 1.15.7;

 

Assure the integrity and confidentiality of the records in their custody and with which they use to do their jobs. Managers are responsible for ensuring that their employees comply with these requirements; and

 

Return records requested from the FRC promptly when finished with the records.

[TGHusker]

If this is another Thanks, Obama! thread then I'm out.

 

We can run but we can't hide! Maybe the son of one of Nixon's trusted teammates did a bit of consulting wt the O team. They seemed to have experience with missing data as I recall. Amazing how crashed hard drives can happen at the most inconvenient times. Maybe they think the public can be fooled every day Seriously, this crashed hard drive doesn't pass the common sense smell test. But in the end it could have happened as an accident but I'd think the odds are strong that it was no accident that the very computer that had the emls related to the investigation of the IRS targeting conservative groups would happen to crash.

How even more amazingly inconvenient that those missing emails just happened to be to those who would gain from the targeting of conservative groups - white house, democrat offices and the agencies they control under the administration

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/14/irs-says-it-lost-lois-ler_n_5494762.html

Quote:

But an untold number are gone. Camp's office said the missing emails are mainly ones to and from people outside the IRS, "such as the White House, Treasury, Department of Justice, FEC, or Democrat offices." end quote

 

These non scandals as some would like to label them, have huge constitutional implications if proven to be true regardless of political party or president name. That is why it is important to get to the bottom of it. Besides it was the dems who set the standard with the infamous " Seriousness of the Charge" statement:

 

Democrats have argued in the past that the seriousness of a charge is all you need to warrant an investigation.

“The nature of the evidence is irrelevant; it’s the seriousness of the charge that matters.” Tom Foley, Democrat, Former Speaker of the House

 

 

There had been previous stories that democratic congressional leaders had been pressuring and or coordinating wt the IRS to investigate tea party and other conservative groups.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/congress-put-pressure-on-the-irs-to-investigate-conservative-tax-exempt-groups/275814/

 

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-new-documents-show-irs-hq-control-tea-party-targeting/

 

Quoted in part:

A series of letters between Senator Levin (D-MI), chairman of the Subcommittee on Investigations, and top IRS officials throughout 2012 discuss how to target conservative groups the senator claimed were “engaged in political activities.” In response to a Levin March 30 letter citing the “urgency of the issue,” then-Deputy Commissioner Steven Miller assured the senator that IRS regulations were flexible enough to allow IRS agents to “prepare individualized questions and requests” for select 501©(4) organizations.

The newly released IRS documents contain several letters and emails revealing an intense effort by Levin and IRS officials to determine what, if any, existing IRS policies could be used to revoke the nonprofit exemptions of active conservative groups and deny exemptions to new applicants. In a July 30, 2012, letter, Levin singles out 12 groups he wants investigated for “political activity.” Of the groups – which include the Club for Growth, Americans for Tax Reform, the 60 Plus Association, and the Susan B. Anthony List – only one, Priorities USA, is notably left-leaning.

As the 2012 presidential election drew nearer, Levin sent a series of letters to the IRS intensifying his campaign against predominantly conservative nonprofit groups:

• September 27, 2012: Levin asks for copies of the answers to IRS exemption application question 15 – a question about planned political expenditures – from four specific groups: Crossroads Grassroots Policy Strategies, Priorities USA, Americans for Prosperity, and Patriot Majority USA.

• October 17, 2012: Miller informs Levin, “As discussed in our previous responses dated June 4, 2012, and August 24, 2012, the IRS cannot legally disclose whether the organizations on your list have applied for tax exemptions unless and until such application is approved.” Miller, however, then informs Levin that Americans for Prosperity and Patriot Majority have been approved, but the IRS has no records for Crossroads and Priorities USA.

• October 23, 2012: Levin writes to again express his dissatisfaction with the IRS handling of “social welfare” (501©(4) organizations insisting that IRS guidance “misinterprets the law” by allowing any political activity. He again demands an answer as to whether the four organizations he listed in his previous letter were primarily engaged in the promotion of social welfare. He also seeks copies of tax exempt revocation letters sent due to c4 political activities, as well as statistics on how many c4s have been notified that they may be in violation due to political activities.

In perhaps the most revealing letter from the IRS to Levin, Miller on June 4, 2012, takes 16 pages to explain to the senator what IRS regulations and policies may and may not be used to evaluate political groups and assures him that the agency has considerable leeway in picking and choosing which groups would be subject to additional scrutiny:

There is no standard questionnaire used to obtain information about political activities. Although there is a template development letter that describes the general information on the case development process, the letter does not specify the information to be requested from any particular organization … Consequently, revenue agents prepare individualized questions and requests for documents relevant to the application. . .

A May 14, 2013, Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) report revealed that the IRS had singled out groups with conservative-sounding terms such as “patriot” and “Tea Party” in their titles when applying for tax-exempt status. The TIGTA probe determined that “Early in Calendar Year 2010, the IRS began using inappropriate criteria to identify organizations applying for tax-exempt status (e.g., lists of past and future donors).” The illegal IRS reviews continued for more than 18 months and “delayed processing of targeted groups applications” preparing for the 2012 presidential election.

[BigRedBuster]

Two things about this.

 

a) If emails go through, they then are on two different servers. If one hard disc crashes, it doesn't mean the emails are lost forever.

 

b) I went to a seminar on computer security put on by a member of the FBI. Point made was that you could basically run a disc through a paper shredder or break it into a hundred pieces and they have the technology to put it back together and get the data off of it.

 

So, I have no clue if Ms, Lerner has anything incriminating against herself or anyone. I have absolutely no clue if the administration ordered targeting of these groups. I have no clue if any of this is a waste of time or not. However, just to throw up our hands and say..."Gosh darn it. The hard drive crashed so we can't get the emails".....is laughable at best.

[MidnightRider]

 

If this is another Thanks, Obama! thread then I'm out.

 

We can run but we can't hide! Maybe the son of one of Nixon's trusted teammates did a bit of consulting wt the O team. They seemed to have experience with missing data as I recall. Amazing how crashed hard drives can happen at the most inconvenient times. Maybe they think the public can be fooled every day Seriously, this crashed hard drive doesn't pass the common sense smell test. But in the end it could have happened as an accident but I'd think the odds are strong that it was no accident that the very computer that had the emls related to the investigation of the IRS targeting conservative groups would happen to crash.

How even more amazingly inconvenient that those missing emails just happened to be to those who would gain from the targeting of conservative groups - white house, democrat offices and the agencies they control under the administration

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/14/irs-says-it-lost-lois-ler_n_5494762.html

Quote:

But an untold number are gone. Camp's office said the missing emails are mainly ones to and from people outside the IRS, "such as the White House, Treasury, Department of Justice, FEC, or Democrat offices." end quote

There had been previous stories that democratic congressional leaders had been pressuring and or coordinating wt the IRS to investigate tea party and other conservative groups.

 

A crashed hard drive on a client would be of no consequence if they had a proper backup, archive and COOP solution. That's elementarhy sh#t for any gov entity. This is so blatant that its sickening. I know its rhetoric but people should be in jail for this, based upon what I posted above. Stunning incompetence or outright arrogance, not sure which. Maybe both?

[carlfense]

 

I thought that we were supposed to be outraged over Benghazi? It's weird how the hot scandal of the moment keeps changing.

Yup. Kinda hard to keep track anymore.

 

Actually, it's pretty easy to keep track of them. Every time reality rears it's ugly head they'll just shift to the next faux-controversy.

 

Benghazi! (No evidence of a coverup?) Obamacare! (Oh . . . it's working even better than expected?) Benghazi! (The organizer was captured and will be brought to justice?) IRS/Lerner!

 

Etc. Etc. Etc.

[carlfense]

Two things about this.

 

a) If emails go through, they then are on two different servers. If one hard disc crashes, it doesn't mean the emails are lost forever.

 

b) I went to a seminar on computer security put on by a member of the FBI. Point made was that you could basically run a disc through a paper shredder or break it into a hundred pieces and they have the technology to put it back together and get the data off of it.

 

So, I have no clue if Ms, Lerner has anything incriminating against herself or anyone. I have absolutely no clue if the administration ordered targeting of these groups. I have no clue if any of this is a waste of time or not. However, just to throw up our hands and say..."Gosh darn it. The hard drive crashed so we can't get the emails".....is laughable at best.

I agree. Particularly with a).

 

Regarding b) they should turn the computers in question over to whichever committee is handling the investigation and let them handle the forensics however they see fit.

 

As far as Lerner herself goes, she has the same Fifth Amendment rights as anyone else. That said, if she is going to take the Fifth in reference to her official activities then she should forfeit any and all government remunerations.