Anwar al-Awlaki revisited

[BigRedBuster]

I wasn't on this board when this happened. What are your thoughts on our government doing this?

 

LINK

 

We finally know the legal argument the Obama administration used to justify killing American citizen and alleged al-Qaeda operative Anwar al-Awlaki in a 2011 drone strike in Yemen. The Second Circuit Court of Appeals forced the administration to release the Justice Department memo making the argument and, on Monday, the memo went public.

 

 

[carlfense]

I wasn't on this board when this happened. What are your thoughts on our government doing this?

 

LINK

 

We finally know the legal argument the Obama administration used to justify killing American citizen and alleged al-Qaeda operative Anwar al-Awlaki in a 2011 drone strike in Yemen. The Second Circuit Court of Appeals forced the administration to release the Justice Department memo making the argument and, on Monday, the memo went public.

 

 

It's pretty shocking to me. That's a US citizen . . . did he forfeit all of his rights just by crossing our borders? (Not saying that he is innocent or a good guy . . . )

[knapplc]

Any citizen should be alarmed at that action. He was a U.S. citizen, and without any kind of due process he was killed.

 

The problem with this is, as we've seen with Obama, once the office of the president is endowed with the power to do something, they don't give it up. The NSA scandal didn't start with Obama, it's been going on for decades. S-canning that whole spying program would seem like a no-brainer for a man who ran on a populist platform (twice). But it's still there, and that ginormous building they're creating to house all the data is still going up.

 

So you've got a precedent here with al-Awlaki. Do we trust the next president not to use that kind of power on another American citizen? Or the president after that? After that?

 

It's a scary thing. You can see the roots of a totalitarian government being created right before our eyes. We need someone responsible to put an end to this. And I don't think Obama is going to, nor would Hillary.

[StPaulHusker]

Any citizen should be alarmed at that action. He was a U.S. citizen, and without any kind of due process he was killed.

 

The problem with this is, as we've seen with Obama, once the office of the president is endowed with the power to do something, they don't give it up. The NSA scandal didn't start with Obama, it's been going on for decades. S-canning that whole spying program would seem like a no-brainer for a man who ran on a populist platform (twice). But it's still there, and that ginormous building they're creating to house all the data is still going up.

 

So you've got a precedent here with al-Awlaki. Do we trust the next president not to use that kind of power on another American citizen? Or the president after that? After that?

 

It's a scary thing. You can see the roots of a totalitarian government being created right before our eyes. We need someone responsible to put an end to this. And I don't think Obama is going to, nor would Hillary.

A responsible public official? Found right next to a unicorn and a pot of gold a the end of a rainbow.

[TGHusker]

Any citizen should be alarmed at that action. He was a U.S. citizen, and without any kind of due process he was killed.

 

The problem with this is, as we've seen with Obama, once the office of the president is endowed with the power to do something, they don't give it up. The NSA scandal didn't start with Obama, it's been going on for decades. S-canning that whole spying program would seem like a no-brainer for a man who ran on a populist platform (twice). But it's still there, and that ginormous building they're creating to house all the data is still going up.

 

So you've got a precedent here with al-Awlaki. Do we trust the next president not to use that kind of power on another American citizen? Or the president after that? After that?

 

It's a scary thing. You can see the roots of a totalitarian government being created right before our eyes. We need someone responsible to put an end to this. And I don't think Obama is going to, nor would Hillary.

Amen. There were many of us, including me, who thought the Patriot Act was a good thing at the time. While NSA privacy issues have gone on for a long time, it exploded under Bush and has continued under O. This and the idea of killing an American citizen without due process should be a wake up call that we have 'over-corrected' after 9/11. These kinds of issues should unite both conservatives and liberals. Tyranny either left or right leaning is never good. It will take a brave politician(s) to put an end to this and the whole military industrial complex appetite for more and more.

[BigRedBuster]

I agree with everything you guys are saying. What shocked me about this is how overtly it was done.

 

I will guarantee you other Presidents did similar stuff during wars in the past but it was done by CIA operatives covertly and details were completely locked up or destroyed for good so absolutely nobody found out about it. Heck, they could have killed him and make it look like some other group or country did it.

This government??? Heck no. Let's fly in and bomb the crap out of him in a way the entire world knows exactly what happened and then TELL the entire world what we did like we are bragging about it.

 

Both situations are wrong as far as the law of this land goes. But, the total brazenness (if that's a word) of how this was done was shocking to me.

[carlfense]

I agree with everything you guys are saying. What shocked me about this is how overtly it was done.

 

I will guarantee you other Presidents did similar stuff during wars in the past but it was done by CIA operatives covertly and details were completely locked up or destroyed for good so absolutely nobody found out about it. Heck, they could have killed him and make it look like some other group or country did it.

 

This government??? Heck no. Let's fly in and bomb the crap out of him in a way the entire world knows exactly what happened and then TELL the entire world what we did like we are bragging about it.

 

Both situations are wrong as far as the law of this land goes. But, the total brazenness (if that's a word) of how this was done was shocking to me.

Yeah. And here is the problem in this particular case: Congressional dems aren't going to complain too loudly about this because it was done by a democratic president. Congressional repubs aren't going to complain too loudly about this because they're pro-military-bomb the sh!t out of the traitors-hawks.

 

So we're left in a situation where no one really wants to take charge and why don't we just focus on these shiny object pseudo-scandals over here?!

 

(Rand Paul deserves credit for his stance on this issue.)

[TGHusker]

 

I agree with everything you guys are saying. What shocked me about this is how overtly it was done.

 

I will guarantee you other Presidents did similar stuff during wars in the past but it was done by CIA operatives covertly and details were completely locked up or destroyed for good so absolutely nobody found out about it. Heck, they could have killed him and make it look like some other group or country did it.

 

This government??? Heck no. Let's fly in and bomb the crap out of him in a way the entire world knows exactly what happened and then TELL the entire world what we did like we are bragging about it.

 

Both situations are wrong as far as the law of this land goes. But, the total brazenness (if that's a word) of how this was done was shocking to me.

Yeah. And here is the problem in this particular case: Congressional dems aren't going to complain too loudly about this because it was done by a democratic president. Congressional repubs aren't going to complain too loudly about this because they're pro-military-bomb the sh!t out of the traitors-hawks.

 

So we're left in a situation where no one really wants to take charge and why don't we just focus on these shiny object pseudo-scandals over here?!

 

(Rand Paul deserves credit for his stance on this issue.)

 

Don't be surprise if Rand Paul's reputation in the public eyes increases. Sometimes we don't need to put our nose into certain conflicts. Paul's position of non-intervention is starting to look more and more attractive. I know Dick Cheney and daughter are starting a new organization for the express purpose to "re-ignite American leadership in foreign policy" - belief is that if America doesn't lead the world will fall apart - thus the evidence we see in the Middle East now. However, I am beginning to think that our being too involved in sectarian fights (choosing winners and losers) may have ignited more turmoil. I think we can claim this to be true wt both administrations - Bush in Iraq and Obama in the Arab spring of Libya and Egypt and Syria spilling over into Iraq now. In Iraq, as much as we disliked Saddam, he was a counterweight to the radicals in Iran. In Libya, we didn't like Gaddafy, but he maintained order - the same with Mubarak in Egypt. As the old saying goes, the tyrant that you know is better than the one you don't know. Of course this is looking at from USA interests, however, any tyranny is terrible for the people who are under it - unless this is what they wish to rule over them. In the mid east - the strong man is a part of the culture. Organic uprising of the population to replace a tyrant should be left to the people. We thought the Arab spring was this, but it appears it was motivated by tyrants from the other side. There should be overwhelming national interest for the USA to get involved. A radical Islam culture cannot co-exist wt an American style democracy.

[BigRedBuster]

I remember riding in a cab in Las Vegas years ago. Not sure when it was but it was right when the US was getting involved with some over powering tyrant in that region. When I ride in cabs, many times I like to start up a conversation with the cabby and learn about him/her. This guy was from one of the middle eastern countries (not sure which one).

 

Anyway, I asked him what he thought. He made it very clear that he loves America and doesn't want things to change here. But, we must realize that things are totally different over there and the US needs to stay out. I was surprised that he wasn't happy we were going in and trying to make things better for the people under this tyrant. He said, it's up to them, if they want change, they will kill him.

Those words have stuck with me till this day and it holds so true from what I have seen in the last 10 years.

 

It's amazing what you can learn from a cabby.