What's the biggest reason for Blacks not advancing

[StPaulHusker]

You're basically asking a black community to sit back and let the law handle this situation...after the law just killed an innocent unarmed african-american.

 

No sh#t, rioting is bad, yadayada. But the utter lack of societal awareness being displayed in this thread is appalling.

So where do you read this kid was innocent?

 

Reports are coming out that he went for the cops gun.

[tschu]

 

You're basically asking a black community to sit back and let the law handle this situation...after the law just killed an innocent unarmed african-american.

 

No sh#t, rioting is bad, yadayada. But the utter lack of societal awareness being displayed in this thread is appalling.

So where do you read this kid was innocent?

 

Reports are coming out that he went for the cops gun.

 

That goes in direct contradiction to all the reports I read that he was shot unarmed with his hands up, but that would certainly change things

[StPaulHusker]

 

 

You're basically asking a black community to sit back and let the law handle this situation...after the law just killed an innocent unarmed african-american.

 

No sh#t, rioting is bad, yadayada. But the utter lack of societal awareness being displayed in this thread is appalling.

So where do you read this kid was innocent?

 

Reports are coming out that he went for the cops gun.

 

That goes in direct contradiction to all the reports I read that he was shot unarmed with his hands up, but that would certainly change things

 

No one argues that he was unarmed. But unarmed and innocent may not go hand in hand.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/st-louis-police-chief-physical-confrontation-led-fatal-shooting-unarmed-teen-article-1.1898637

[Junior]

 

 

 

You're basically asking a black community to sit back and let the law handle this situation...after the law just killed an innocent unarmed african-american.

 

No sh#t, rioting is bad, yadayada. But the utter lack of societal awareness being displayed in this thread is appalling.

So where do you read this kid was innocent?

 

Reports are coming out that he went for the cops gun.

 

That goes in direct contradiction to all the reports I read that he was shot unarmed with his hands up, but that would certainly change things

 

No one argues that he was unarmed. But unarmed and innocent may not go hand in hand.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/st-louis-police-chief-physical-confrontation-led-fatal-shooting-unarmed-teen-article-1.1898637

 

 

That should be fairly easy to prove, right? Aren't all police cars running recording devices at all times?

[carlfense]

 

 

 

Is the arrest rate the same?

 

I'm sure they're tilted toward blacks. I feel like it would be progress if both sides agree that on the one hand, blacks are targeted by police due to racial prejudices and stereotypes, but on the other, that those stereotypes do exist for a reason.

 

How would the bold explain the MJ disparity when usage rates are comparable?

 

 

Black Americans are overrepresented as perpetrators of crime in this country. That's a straightforward fact and it feeds the stereotype of blacks as a criminal race. When it comes to a cop giving extra scrutiny to someone, I don't think it matters which specific crime we're talking about.

 

It matters if we're trying to determine whether racism is a factor. Probably the most straightforward way of looking at that is look at a crime (or crimes) where blacks and whites are roughly equally represented and look at who is arrested and who isn't.

[LukeinNE]

There are two stories, one from the officer, and one from a friend of the deceased:

 

Witness:

Dorian Johnson, 22, told KMOV that he and Brown were walking in the middle of the street when an officer pulled up and told them, "Get the f*** on the sidewalk." The young men replied that they were "not but a minute away from our destination, and we would shortly be out of the street," Johnson said. The officer drove forward but stopped and backed up, almost hitting the pair, Johnson said. "He tried to thrust his door open, but we were so close that it ricocheted off us and bounced back to him, and I guess that got him a little upset," Johnson told the station. Still in his car, the officer then grabbed Brown by his neck, Johnson said. Brown tried to pull away, but the officer kept pulling Brown toward him, he said. The officer drew his weapon, and "he said, 'I'll shoot you' or 'I'm going to shoot' " and almost instantaneously fired his weapon, hitting Brown, Johnson said. Johnson and a bloodied Brown took off running, and Johnson hid behind the first car he saw, he said. The officer got out of his car. "He pursued my friend. His weapon was drawn," he said. "He shot again, and once my friend felt that shot, he turned around, he put his hands in the air, and he started to get down, but the officer still approached with his weapon drawn, and he fired several more shots, and my friend died," Johnson told KMOV.

 

Police:

Without revealing what led to the dispute, Belmar said the preliminary investigation showed that the Ferguson officer tried to exit his vehicle, but Brown pushed him back into the car, "where he physically assaulted the police officer" and struggled over the officer's weapon, Belmar said. A shot was fired inside the police car, and Brown was eventually shot about 35 feet away from the vehicle, Belmar said.

 

This will be investigated, and one or both of these stories are going to come apart.

[BigRedBuster]

It matters if we're trying to determine whether racism is a factor. Probably the most straightforward way of looking at that is look at a crime (or crimes) where blacks and whites are roughly equally represented and look at who is arrested and who isn't.

 

 

To me, that points to a place that needs to be investigated more. It doesn't necessarily mean that cops are going out and purposely arresting blacks more than whites. It may lead to that conclusion. But, a simple stat is not conclusive evidence of racism.

[LukeinNE]

It matters if we're trying to determine whether racism is a factor. Probably the most straightforward way of looking at that is look at a crime (or crimes) where blacks and whites are roughly equally represented and look at who is arrested and who isn't.

 

I don't think there's any question race plays a factor in who gets scrutinized more by police, that was my point about stereotypes.

[Abdullah the Butcher]

Despite the dismal numbers, an analysis by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research found Blacks are significantly more optimistic about their future standard of living than Whites, regardless of income level, education or political party, even among Black who are convinced that racism is a cause of income inequality.

 

Overall, 71 percent of Blacks surveyed in the 2012 General Social Survey agreed that they have a good chance of improving their standard of living, outpacing the share among Whites by 25 percentage points.

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_101351.shtml

[tschu]

 

It matters if we're trying to determine whether racism is a factor. Probably the most straightforward way of looking at that is look at a crime (or crimes) where blacks and whites are roughly equally represented and look at who is arrested and who isn't.

 

 

To me, that points to a place that needs to be investigated more. It doesn't necessarily mean that cops are going out and purposely arresting blacks more than whites. It may lead to that conclusion. But, a simple stat is not conclusive evidence of racism.

 

It is certainly evidence of a bias, yes. These biases exist everywhere and have been proven both in real-world studies and in controlled experiments.

[tschu]

 

It matters if we're trying to determine whether racism is a factor. Probably the most straightforward way of looking at that is look at a crime (or crimes) where blacks and whites are roughly equally represented and look at who is arrested and who isn't.

 

I don't think there's any question race plays a factor in who gets scrutinized more by police, that was my point about stereotypes.

 

Absolutely. That's exactly what carl and I are arguing. I don't think there's any question that the cop didn't just go up to this kid and shoot him because he was black. When this sort of thing occurs, it's because the officer has a bias that leads him to evaluate and perceive the threat posed by a black individual differently than a white individual. This bias isn't unique to African-Americans either. But when that bias manifests itself into a solitary event that can be an outlet for the suppressed anger and frustration felt by a whole cultural community, you get the outliers in that community acting out in rage and anger. And you know what, rioting is never the right move, but sometimes it takes riots to spark change. Sad but true.

[StPaulHusker]

 

 

It matters if we're trying to determine whether racism is a factor. Probably the most straightforward way of looking at that is look at a crime (or crimes) where blacks and whites are roughly equally represented and look at who is arrested and who isn't.

 

I don't think there's any question race plays a factor in who gets scrutinized more by police, that was my point about stereotypes.

 

Absolutely. That's exactly what carl and I are arguing. I don't think there's any question that the cop didn't just go up to this kid and shoot him because he was black. When this sort of thing occurs, it's because the officer has a bias that leads him to evaluate and perceive the threat posed by a black individual differently than a white individual. This bias isn't unique to African-Americans either. But when that bias manifests itself into a solitary event that can be an outlet for the suppressed anger and frustration felt by a whole cultural community, you get the outliers in that community acting out in rage and anger. And you know what, rioting is never the right move, but sometimes it takes riots to spark change. Sad but true.

 

The bias was that he was telling the kids to not walk in the middle of the street.

[LukeinNE]

Absolutely. That's exactly what carl and I are arguing. I don't think there's any question that the cop didn't just go up to this kid and shoot him because he was black. When this sort of thing occurs, it's because the officer has a bias that leads him to evaluate and perceive the threat posed by a black individual differently than a white individual. This bias isn't unique to African-Americans either. But when that bias manifests itself into a solitary event that can be an outlet for the suppressed anger and frustration felt by a whole cultural community, you get the outliers in that community acting out in rage and anger. And you know what, rioting is never the right move, but sometimes it takes riots to spark change. Sad but true.

 

We can't know what impact, if any, the race of the deceased had in this case. We do not know the facts of this case. It could be the officer is a cold blooded killer. It could be a justified shooting. We just don't know. Until we do know, it is the height of irresponsibility to make assumptions. Those exact same assumptions are the cause for the violent reaction in St. Louis, and spreading them for no other reason than it is appealing to a particular ideology is only adding fuel to the fire.

 

PS: Rioting is never the right move. Period. There's no excuse for it in a civilized society, and all it will accomplish is convincing the rest of the country that blacks belong in their isolated ghettos with lots and lots of police in between them and us.

[tschu]

Amazing.

[LukeinNE]

Amazing.

 

Just out of curiosity, which part of my position is so noxious to you: not rendering judgment until the facts are in, or unconditionally condemning mass looting and property destruction?