Education

[BigRedBuster]

The problem isn't America's colleges. It's America's students.

 

I found this article interesting since I have three kids with the first one starting college this year.

 

One part I found sort of funny about how they wrote the article is that it talks about how Obama (and others) basically talk about our top colleges when saying we have the best in the world. (11 out of top 15). The author then goes on to debunk that myth.....but then....ends with this gem.

 

The best universities in France, for example, often require two years of very intense preparatory school between high school and college. It's hard to figure out how to compare US colleges to that.

 

 

So, basically, he is saying Obama (and others) are wrong for making a blanket statement about US being so good but then ends with comparing France's best schools to the general group of US colleges.

 

Personally, I believe it is almost impossible to compare educational systems around the world based on nothing but statistics and test scores. I do agree with the author in that if US students are entering college behind other students in areas like math, then it is understandable that they would leave college behind the other countries.

 

The author blames the preschool through High school systems for this. I am going to take it a step farther. I blame parents. WAY too many kids have absolutely no guidance from home (or not enough of it) from parents that actually care. It amazes me how many parents in my children's schools either really don't give a crap or have very low expectations of what their kids could/should accomplish. I know most of the people in our school administration fairly well and they constantly talk about this very issue.

 

So, I guess my statement is that I believe we could triple the amount of money we spend on education and I am not convinced it would greatly affect our standings in the world until parents in general decide to make it an important issue with THEIR kids. It starts at home and at a very early age. Many cultures around the world value educating their children and expecting more out of their children (from the very beginning) than Americans do. So, we basically have many parents who don't do squat to help their kids get educated then we sit back and blame our educational system on why they don't do well.

 

Another interesting point to make is that the author points out that we send MORE kids to college than other countries. Well....honestly....I think too many kids believe they need a 4 year college degree. More kids should be going to tech schools or trade schools instead.

 

But, what politician is going to win elections by giving speeches that we have too many kids in college and we need to weed them out more?

[BigRedBuster]

Since she mentioned Korean educational system, I decided to research it a little more. Here is an interesting little tidbit from Wiki....LINK

 

It has also been described as 'intensely competitive'^[5] The system has also been attributed for the high suicide rate inSouth Korea.^[6]

 

While I obviously don't want suicide rates to increase, part of our problem might be the feeling that kids shouldn't be put in competitive situations at young ages. How many of kids sports have gone to the "participation ribbon" because we don't want to hurt little Johnny's or Sarah's feelings.

 

Another interesting little tidbit....

 

Because corporal punishment has been officially prohibited in every classroom since 2011, many teachers and some parents raised with corporal punishment are becoming more concerned about what they see as worsening discipline problems. However, still many teachers infringe the law and raise their students with corporal punishment.^{[citation needed]}

 

I find this interesting not because I want corporal punishment in the school system but that I find discipline lacking within the system. However, again, I think this starts at home. BUT, it is exacerbated by the fact that it is very difficult for a school system sometimes to remove problem kids from the classroom. How well could our average or above students learn if the teacher didn't have to deal with the problem students in back of the class room that don't give a crap and just their to cause problems?

[teachercd]

I love your post! Let me add my 6 dollars...

 

1. Parents are the problem 99% of the time...not kids. When I was a kid a bad grade meant a beating...now a bad grade means the parents need to meet with the teacher to let the teacher know that the kid "has always done well in the past" with the hint that it is the teachers fault. Bad grade + beating/punishment = higher grade.

 

2. Of course we send more kids off to college...we have a huge population compared to all but two other countries...so that makes sense. Plus, college is amazeballs

 

3. Other countries do have better schools for kids ages 5-18...mostly because of the parents expectations. I have this horrible person I know that I hope has bad things happen to her all the time and she spent time in China studying their methods of education. She ask the teachers "What do you do when a student doesn't complete their homework, is there a detention is there a zero policy is there a homework room"...they looked at her like she was crazy and basically said "Yeah...kids just do their homework...They know they have to do it" Again that goes back to parents.

 

4. Kids need to be held accountable at school but they can't be...because we are soft. You mess up over and over, you are gone. You can't come back until your parents take a freaking class and learn how to control you.

 

Let me add one more thing...fear is an amazing motivator.

[Husker_x]

@ BRB & teachercd

 

Anyone who looks at comparisons of education systems has about fifty trillion things to take into account, many of which you guys have touched on. Our education system has a lot of problems, some of which are cultural. I grew up in a conservative Christian environment, for example, and there is a definite spirit of anti-intellectualism that can color the entire experience of education. For a lot of people that drops off when they go to college and . . . get educated.

 

If you want to compare America to China, beware the misleading stats that come from standardized testing. Yeah, Chinese kids do their homework, and yeah, fear is an incredible motivator. But in China it is routine to pay teachers off for higher marks, or to get into better schools. Cheating and plagiarism are rampant. If you then go on to look at critical thinking skills, or which society ends up producing more innovations, like I said in another thread: I put the farm, the outhouse, and the kitchen sink on America every day and twice on Sunday (there's a stew of metaphors for you). It only takes one Einstein, one Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, to change everything. Compare our internet, a f'ing treasure trove, against the useless jumble of China's which is only good for censored state sponsored bullsh#t and World of Warcraft. China is falling behind fast.

[teachercd]

@ BRB & teachercd

 

Anyone who looks at comparisons of education systems has about fifty trillion things to take into account, many of which you guys have touched on. Our education system has a lot of problems, some of which are cultural. I grew up in a conservative Christian environment, for example, and there is a definite spirit of anti-intellectualism that can color the entire experience of education. For a lot of people that drops off when they go to college and . . . get educated.

 

If you want to compare America to China, beware the misleading stats that come from standardized testing. Yeah, Chinese kids do their homework, and yeah, fear is an incredible motivator. But in China it is routine to pay teachers off for higher marks, or to get into better schools. Cheating and plagiarism are rampant. If you then go on to look at critical thinking skills, or which society ends up producing more innovations, like I said in another thread: I put the farm, the outhouse, and the kitchen sink on America every day and twice on Sunday (there's a stew of metaphors for you). It only takes one Einstein, one Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, to change everything. Compare our internet, a f'ing treasure trove, against the useless jumble of China's which is only good for censored state sponsored bullsh#t and World of Warcraft. China is falling behind fast.

Ha! Lots of good points! I love it!

 

Also, cheating and plagiarism is rampant here too.

China also does/did boast a 100% literacy rate, which is BS...considering that they have thousands of villages with no schools at all in those areas. But, that is not really what this article is about.

 

We do have great internet here!

[BigRedBuster]

Husker x...

 

I agree with you. It is virtually impossible to compare school systems around the world simply based on stats and test scores.

 

My frustration comes when politicians pound their fist and use these stats and test scores as reasons to say our schools are horrible and we need to pump more and more and more money into them. Now, there is always room for improvement but I find this as a political talking point that sounds good but when you actually study the issue, it's not the alarming problem some make it out to be.

[Creighton Duke]

This topic was started in this thread last week: http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/70550-americans-think-we-have-the-worlds-best-colleges-we-dont/

 

My comments can be found there

[BigRedBuster]

 

@ BRB & teachercd

 

Anyone who looks at comparisons of education systems has about fifty trillion things to take into account, many of which you guys have touched on. Our education system has a lot of problems, some of which are cultural. I grew up in a conservative Christian environment, for example, and there is a definite spirit of anti-intellectualism that can color the entire experience of education. For a lot of people that drops off when they go to college and . . . get educated.

 

If you want to compare America to China, beware the misleading stats that come from standardized testing. Yeah, Chinese kids do their homework, and yeah, fear is an incredible motivator. But in China it is routine to pay teachers off for higher marks, or to get into better schools. Cheating and plagiarism are rampant. If you then go on to look at critical thinking skills, or which society ends up producing more innovations, like I said in another thread: I put the farm, the outhouse, and the kitchen sink on America every day and twice on Sunday (there's a stew of metaphors for you). It only takes one Einstein, one Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, to change everything. Compare our internet, a f'ing treasure trove, against the useless jumble of China's which is only good for censored state sponsored bullsh#t and World of Warcraft. China is falling behind fast.

Ha! Lots of good points! I love it!

 

Also, cheating and plagiarism is rampant here too.

China also does/did boast a 100% literacy rate, which is BS...considering that they have thousands of villages with no schools at all in those areas. But, that is not really what this article is about.

 

We do have great internet here!

 

But, in a sense it is what the article is about. The US has a goal (rightfully so) to educate everyone. That isn't the case in China and some other countries. Gee....do you think we would be viewed better if our goal was only to educate a top certain percentage of the kids?

[teachercd]

 

 

@ BRB & teachercd

 

Anyone who looks at comparisons of education systems has about fifty trillion things to take into account, many of which you guys have touched on. Our education system has a lot of problems, some of which are cultural. I grew up in a conservative Christian environment, for example, and there is a definite spirit of anti-intellectualism that can color the entire experience of education. For a lot of people that drops off when they go to college and . . . get educated.

 

If you want to compare America to China, beware the misleading stats that come from standardized testing. Yeah, Chinese kids do their homework, and yeah, fear is an incredible motivator. But in China it is routine to pay teachers off for higher marks, or to get into better schools. Cheating and plagiarism are rampant. If you then go on to look at critical thinking skills, or which society ends up producing more innovations, like I said in another thread: I put the farm, the outhouse, and the kitchen sink on America every day and twice on Sunday (there's a stew of metaphors for you). It only takes one Einstein, one Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, to change everything. Compare our internet, a f'ing treasure trove, against the useless jumble of China's which is only good for censored state sponsored bullsh#t and World of Warcraft. China is falling behind fast.

Ha! Lots of good points! I love it!

 

Also, cheating and plagiarism is rampant here too.

China also does/did boast a 100% literacy rate, which is BS...considering that they have thousands of villages with no schools at all in those areas. But, that is not really what this article is about.

 

We do have great internet here!

 

But, in a sense it is what the article is about. The US has a goal (rightfully so) to educate everyone. That isn't the case in China and some other countries. Gee....do you think we would be viewed better if our goal was only to educate a top certain percentage of the kids?

 

I meant that the article was not about the villages in China and how poor they are...

[Husker_x]

Husker x...

 

I agree with you. It is virtually impossible to compare school systems around the world simply based on stats and test scores.

 

My frustration comes when politicians pound their fist and use these stats and test scores as reasons to say our schools are horrible and we need to pump more and more and more money into them. Now, there is always room for improvement but I find this as a political talking point that sounds good but when you actually study the issue, it's not the alarming problem some make it out to be.

 

Yeah, I don't know that money alone solves squat. That said, a buddy of mine was telling me that if you look at the US historically, this same argument could have always been made. There is also a major complication: the definition of 'education' is completely different today than it was in the 1950s. It's not about knowing things anymore, it's about knowing where to go to get reliable info. I don't give two sh#ts about our standardized test scores. I care about our high-end research and tech breakthroughs. If you want to spend money on something, spend it on NASA.

 

Edit: the "this argument" is referring to the US vs. other countries on stat sheet comparisons.

[Husker_x]

 

@ BRB & teachercd

 

Anyone who looks at comparisons of education systems has about fifty trillion things to take into account, many of which you guys have touched on. Our education system has a lot of problems, some of which are cultural. I grew up in a conservative Christian environment, for example, and there is a definite spirit of anti-intellectualism that can color the entire experience of education. For a lot of people that drops off when they go to college and . . . get educated.

 

If you want to compare America to China, beware the misleading stats that come from standardized testing. Yeah, Chinese kids do their homework, and yeah, fear is an incredible motivator. But in China it is routine to pay teachers off for higher marks, or to get into better schools. Cheating and plagiarism are rampant. If you then go on to look at critical thinking skills, or which society ends up producing more innovations, like I said in another thread: I put the farm, the outhouse, and the kitchen sink on America every day and twice on Sunday (there's a stew of metaphors for you). It only takes one Einstein, one Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, to change everything. Compare our internet, a f'ing treasure trove, against the useless jumble of China's which is only good for censored state sponsored bullsh#t and World of Warcraft. China is falling behind fast.

Ha! Lots of good points! I love it!

 

Also, cheating and plagiarism is rampant here too.

China also does/did boast a 100% literacy rate, which is BS...considering that they have thousands of villages with no schools at all in those areas. But, that is not really what this article is about.

 

We do have great internet here!

 

 

The difference is in China the practice is not exactly discouraged. Get the right answer . . . however you have to.

[Hooked on Huskers]

 

The Age of Distraction: Getting students to put away their SmartPhones and focus on learning. Tweeter, Facebook and Smartphones are the Devil's tool. The problem isn't America's colleges. It's America's students.

[BigRedBuster]

Let me ask you this.

 

Why doesn't the media report on this issue in this manner?

 

I honestly don't know if I have ever read an article or heard a report from a major news outlet talking about problems in our educational system from the view point of parental involvement and parental expectations of the kids.

 

I would think this would be something the teacher's union would be trumpeting from the highest mountain top. If they constantly read articles about how horrible the school is they teach in but THEY know the kids aren't coming to school from home expecting and ready to learn, why aren't teachers making this the #1 priority when discussing improvements in educational systems?

[BigRedBuster]

Since I wrote my last post, I thought I should google "US schools parental involvement" and just see what comes up. This was the first article that came up from what I thought looked like a major news outlet.

 

Is parent involvement in school really useful?

 

I found the article rather strange. On one hand, it seems to advocate involvement but then it was like....yeah....but don't get too involved. It talks about how we shouldn't want parents to pester their kids to do their homework or put too much pressure on them. It also seems like it implies that he doesn't want parents to put too much pressure on the teachers either. But, then it says parents should question conventional educational practices.

 

I found myself agreeing with him then in the next paragraph thinking he is a whack job.

 

Now, compare that to what we have discussed about China and Korea systems where there is a lot of pressure put in the children to perform and compete for spots in college.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

@ BRB & teachercd

 

Anyone who looks at comparisons of education systems has about fifty trillion things to take into account, many of which you guys have touched on. Our education system has a lot of problems, some of which are cultural. I grew up in a conservative Christian environment, for example, and there is a definite spirit of anti-intellectualism that can color the entire experience of education. For a lot of people that drops off when they go to college and . . . get educated.

 

If you want to compare America to China, beware the misleading stats that come from standardized testing. Yeah, Chinese kids do their homework, and yeah, fear is an incredible motivator. But in China it is routine to pay teachers off for higher marks, or to get into better schools. Cheating and plagiarism are rampant. If you then go on to look at critical thinking skills, or which society ends up producing more innovations, like I said in another thread: I put the farm, the outhouse, and the kitchen sink on America every day and twice on Sunday (there's a stew of metaphors for you). It only takes one Einstein, one Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, to change everything. Compare our internet, a f'ing treasure trove, against the useless jumble of China's which is only good for censored state sponsored bullsh#t and World of Warcraft. China is falling behind fast.

Ha! Lots of good points! I love it!

 

Also, cheating and plagiarism is rampant here too.

China also does/did boast a 100% literacy rate, which is BS...considering that they have thousands of villages with no schools at all in those areas. But, that is not really what this article is about.

 

We do have great internet here!

 

But, in a sense it is what the article is about. The US has a goal (rightfully so) to educate everyone. That isn't the case in China and some other countries. Gee....do you think we would be viewed better if our goal was only to educate a top certain percentage of the kids?

 

I meant that the article was not about the villages in China and how poor they are...

 

And, my point was that it is in a sense because by China not committing themselves to educating every child in every rural village, they only intend to educate a certain amount of the population. This heavily skews the data in their favor when you then compare it to a country like the US that is committed to educating everyone.