Pres. Obama and Jinping strike deal on carbon emissions

[carlfense]

Good news. I eagerly await the productive conversation that this will spur in Congress.

 

BEIJING China nd the United States made common cause on Wednesday against the threat of climate change staking out an ambitious joint plan to curb carbon emissions as a way to spur nations around the world to make their own cuts in greenhouse gases.

 

The landmark agreement, jointly announced here by President Obama and President Xi Jinping, includes new targets for carbon emissions reductions by the United States and a first-ever commitment by China to stop its emissions from growing by 2030.

 

Administration officials said the agreement, which was worked out quietly between the United States and China over nine months and included a letter from Mr. Obama to Mr. Xi proposing a joint approach, could galvanize efforts to negotiate a new global climate agreement by 2015.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/world/asia/china-us-xi-obama-apec.html

[BigRedBuster]

I heard this this morning on TV and became very interested. On the surface, it sounds like great news. If we can reduce pollution and at the same time put environmental regulations on china's manufacturing similar to what the US has, it's a winning situation.

 

However, before I get all giddy, I need to know more about this.

 

As part of the agreement, Mr. Obama announced that the United States would emit 26 percent to 28 percent less carbon in 2025 than it did in 2005. That is double the pace of reduction it targeted for the period from 2005 to 2020.

China’s pledge to reach peak carbon emissions by 2030, if not sooner, is even more remarkable. To reach that goal, Mr. Xi pledged that so-called clean energy sources, like solar power and windmills, would account for 20 percent of China’s total energy production by 2030.

To me, this reads that the US is going to drop their carbon emissions by 25% while China is allowed to still grow their emissions till 2030.

 

If I'm reading that right, I might not get to that "giddy" point.

[Abdullah the Butcher]

Now I'm not an educated man but if I'm reading this correctly China isn't reducing anything, they will just cap their emissions by 2030.

[EbylHusker]

Any progress with China on that front is good news. It's not a topic (politically or scientifically) where you can say, "Hey, your rate of increase in carbon emissions is really, really high. We'd like you to reach peak carbon emissions by 2020, and by 2030 cut those total emissions by 25%. Not realistic.

[carlfense]

Any progress with China on that front is good news. It's not a topic (politically or scientifically) where you can say, "Hey, your rate of increase in carbon emissions is really, really high. We'd like you to reach peak carbon emissions by 2020, and by 2030 cut those total emissions by 25%. Not realistic.

IIRC this is the first time that China has ever agreed to any sort of limitation on this front.

 

[EbylHusker]

Yes, so it's a big deal. The size of their country and population, coupled with the insane growth of their emissions, is rather scary. In addition, the AP reports that China's emissions are expected to begin falling once the peak is reached. This should also really ramp up the pressure on other countries to make commitments if they haven't already (India, for example).

[Mavric]

Yes, so it's a big deal. The size of their country and population, coupled with the insane growth of their emissions, is rather scary. In addition, the AP reports that China's emissions are expected to begin falling once the peak is reached. This should also really ramp up the pressure on other countries to make commitments if they haven't already (India, for example).

 

Somebody at the AP must have put a lot of research into this one.

[carlfense]

 

Yes, so it's a big deal. The size of their country and population, coupled with the insane growth of their emissions, is rather scary. In addition, the AP reports that China's emissions are expected to begin falling once the peak is reached. This should also really ramp up the pressure on other countries to make commitments if they haven't already (India, for example).

 

Somebody at the AP must have put a lot of research into this one.

 

lol. +1

 

(I suppose it could remain exactly the same . . . but still . . .)

[EbylHusker]

I take the wording to mean there isn't a specific, firm stipulation that emissions must begin falling after that. But the intent is that China would be working to actually reduce emissions.

[BigRedBuster]

So, we reduce ours and they increase theirs. I'm not saying at least getting them to the table isn't a step in the right direction. But, my jumping for joy mechanism just isn't kicking in.

 

So, we put more regulations on our industry and probably increase the cost of our electricity to our industries. China is allowed to keep building crappy manufacturing facilities that can manufacture cheaper than we can due to these regulations. American public demands cheaper and cheaper crap from Walmart (who will buy them from China). We lose more and more jobs to china. Everyone looks at those big mean evil American business owners and blames them for all the problems in the world.

 

Meanwhile, I'll bet anything that come sometime around 2025 - 2030 China gives us the big middle finger on this and says screw you.

 

But....at least they are starting to talk about it.

[carlfense]

So, we put more regulations on our industry and probably increase the cost of our electricity to our industries. China is allowed to keep building crappy manufacturing facilities that can manufacture cheaper than we can due to these regulations. American public demands cheaper and cheaper crap from Walmart (who will buy them from China). We lose more and more jobs to china. Everyone looks at those big mean evil American business owners and blames them for all the problems in the world.

Isn't their ridiculously low labor costs a much bigger factor than their lax regulations?

[EbylHusker]

Jesus f#*k...

 

We are in a position to actually further reduce our emissions. China is not, but they are in a position to start cutting the rate of increase of their emissions until they cap them. That is f'ing reality. It isn't perfect, but it's a huge step in the right direction. But hey, I guess there's always something to bitch about. Must feel good.

[BigRedBuster]

 

So, we put more regulations on our industry and probably increase the cost of our electricity to our industries. China is allowed to keep building crappy manufacturing facilities that can manufacture cheaper than we can due to these regulations. American public demands cheaper and cheaper crap from Walmart (who will buy them from China). We lose more and more jobs to china. Everyone looks at those big mean evil American business owners and blames them for all the problems in the world.

Isn't their ridiculously low labor costs a much bigger factor than their lax regulations?

 

Both

[BigRedBuster]

Jesus f#*k...

 

We are in a position to actually further reduce our emissions. China is not, but they are in a position to start cutting the rate of increase of their emissions until they cap them. That is f'ing reality. It isn't perfect, but it's a huge step in the right direction. But hey, I guess there's always something to bitch about. Must feel good.

i guess f#*k middle class jobs till then.

 

Hey...I said it's a good thing they are at least talking.

[carlfense]

 

 

So, we put more regulations on our industry and probably increase the cost of our electricity to our industries. China is allowed to keep building crappy manufacturing facilities that can manufacture cheaper than we can due to these regulations. American public demands cheaper and cheaper crap from Walmart (who will buy them from China). We lose more and more jobs to china. Everyone looks at those big mean evil American business owners and blames them for all the problems in the world.

Isn't their ridiculously low labor costs a much bigger factor than their lax regulations?

 

Both

 

But which do you think is a more significant factor? (Genuinely curious . . . I no longer have any manufacturing ties.)