EbylHusker Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 No, there are plenty of things we can do to continue to improve job growth and opportunties for people here at the same time. They're not mutally exclusive. Fox News wants you to believe they're mutually exclusive, but like always, they're pushing their agenda rather than anything based in reality. Link to comment
knapplc Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 How are middle class jobs tied to emissions? Even if China cut their emissions to nothing and we didn't, they'd still be getting exported jobs because of labor costs. Link to comment
carlfense Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 How are middle class jobs tied to emissions? Even if China cut their emissions to nothing and we didn't, they'd still be getting exported jobs because of labor costs. That's sort of what I was thinking . . . Link to comment
TGHusker Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Getting them to the table finally is a good thing. Hopefully India is close behind. I imagine cap and trade will be at front in center on our end. For them to still have 16 years to reach max seems a bit much - you can hardly breath in some of their cities already. Will this 16 years give them the time frame to overtake us economically? - restrictions on our industries while their industry can still run full bore - polluting. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 So, we put more regulations on our industry and probably increase the cost of our electricity to our industries. China is allowed to keep building crappy manufacturing facilities that can manufacture cheaper than we can due to these regulations. American public demands cheaper and cheaper crap from Walmart (who will buy them from China). We lose more and more jobs to china. Everyone looks at those big mean evil American business owners and blames them for all the problems in the world. Isn't their ridiculously low labor costs a much bigger factor than their lax regulations? Both But which do you think is a more significant factor? (Genuinely curious . . . I no longer have any manufacturing ties.) I think that is a very difficult thing to answer. It's all a very complicated web. Yes, their labor costs on a per hour they pay their worker basis is extremely low compared to ours. But, when you consider how cheap power production is if you don't have to worry bout pollution, it's ridiculous. Many of their newer plants are automated just like ours. So, the labor cost factor is probably less now than it was say 20 years ago. I know of a company that used to produce huge amounts of product in the US. Their plants they no longer use are extremely contaminated due to the processes they used to clean and finish steal. The ground water under these plants can no longer ever be used and that company is still paying out millions of dollars in maintaining the remediation. Now, that company should be required to pay out those huge amounts of money. I'm not saying they shouldn't. HOWEVER, now compare that to being able to just dump crap where ever you want with no regulations forcing you to even clean it up. The figure is huge. I know my example is ground water contamination and we are talking about carbon emissions. BUT, problem is the same. Rightfully so, we have stiff regulations in this country on what industry can and can't do to the environment. The problem is, that isn't the case elsewhere and the difference in costs is a major factor. Link to comment
zoogs Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 There is nothing that will get China to cut emissions right away. That isn't a political issue, it's a reality issue. China has to take a lot of steps to get to that peak emissions point -- maybe even aggressive steps. That's not talk, that's action. "Increasing until 2030" isn't status quo, because the trajectory has to slow for a number of years before it can level off. So I don't understand the hand-wringing. American environmental regulations weren't built and imposed in a day. Or even a decade. Were they? Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 How are middle class jobs tied to emissions? Even if China cut their emissions to nothing and we didn't, they'd still be getting exported jobs because of labor costs. That's why both need to be addressed. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 No, there are plenty of things we can do to continue to improve job growth and opportunties for people here at the same time. They're not mutally exclusive. Fox News wants you to believe they're mutually exclusive, but like always, they're pushing their agenda rather than anything based in reality. I didn't say they were mutually exclusive. And, since neither one of us watches or respects Fox News....why bring them up? Link to comment
EbylHusker Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Will this 16 years give them the time frame to overtake us economically? - restrictions on our industries while their industry can still run full bore - polluting. Who gives a sh#t if China overtakes us economically? Must we always be playing the "who has a bigger penis?" with countries? They have 1.3 billion people or some ridiculous number and are industrializing. It's a good bet they're going to overtake us, so get f'ing used to it. And as already mentioned by another, they will not be running "full bore" until 2030. They'll have to start taking steps immediately to begin leveling off until they reach the cap. 2 Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Hey, I said it's a good thing they are at the table. I'm just not over joyed yet thinking this is going to be this great accomplishment. Link to comment
EbylHusker Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 No, there are plenty of things we can do to continue to improve job growth and opportunties for people here at the same time. They're not mutally exclusive. Fox News wants you to believe they're mutually exclusive, but like always, they're pushing their agenda rather than anything based in reality. I didn't say they were mutually exclusive. And, since neither one of us watches or respects Fox News....why bring them up? You're parroting Fox News whether you know it or not. Thumbs up, buddy. Link to comment
carlfense Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 I know of a company that used to produce huge amounts of product in the US. Their plants they no longer use are extremely contaminated due to the processes they used to clean and finish steal. The ground water under these plants can no longer ever be used and that company is still paying out millions of dollars in maintaining the remediation. Sounds like the galvanizing waste ponds that Valmont paved over . . . Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 No, there are plenty of things we can do to continue to improve job growth and opportunties for people here at the same time. They're not mutally exclusive. Fox News wants you to believe they're mutually exclusive, but like always, they're pushing their agenda rather than anything based in reality. I didn't say they were mutually exclusive. And, since neither one of us watches or respects Fox News....why bring them up? You're parroting Fox News whether you know it or not. Thumbs up, buddy. Is that the only thing you can fall back on....Buddy? Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I know of a company that used to produce huge amounts of product in the US. Their plants they no longer use are extremely contaminated due to the processes they used to clean and finish steal. The ground water under these plants can no longer ever be used and that company is still paying out millions of dollars in maintaining the remediation. Sounds like the galvanizing waste ponds that Valmont paved over . . . No....but similar situation. Link to comment
knapplc Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 How are middle class jobs tied to emissions? Even if China cut their emissions to nothing and we didn't, they'd still be getting exported jobs because of labor costs. That's why both need to be addressed. They're separate issues. Tying them together makes utterly no sense, and China has no reason to change their wages laws even if we did. This whole thing is a red herring. I can't even imagine how the two got connected. Link to comment
Recommended Posts