SCOTUS Rules Texas Abortion Restictions Unconstitutional

[AR Husker Fan]

You are missing the point. What I stated is that there is no amendment calling out the right to have abortions like there is the right to bear arms. The Supreme Court in the 1970s decided abortion was ok, not our founding fathers, and a new Supreme Court in the future could alter that. Meanwhile, it would take a heck of a lot more to alter the 2nd amendment, as is evidence by this process.

 

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/a/amendments.htm

 

So as a general point, are you ok with late-term abortions, and do you feel that if there are no exceptions at play, any woman should be able to end a pregnancy at 25 weeks, 30 weeks, or even 37 weeks?

No, that's not what you stated. What you stated was, "Last I checked, there is no amendment offering this right, and the only way it's legal is through what I consider the wrong interpretation of a Constiutional (sic) clause." Now, as to missing points, you missed three. First, it doesn't matter from where in the Constitution the right is derived. Whether the body of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, Amendments, or interpretation of the rights specified. Every single right enumerated in the Constitution is, and has been, subject to interpretation by the Supreme Court. The right of Free Speech? The Supreme Court has interpreted that to exclude speech that endangers people - the old "shouting fire in a crowded theater" standard, even though no such limitation exists in the Constitution. Right to bear arms? The Supreme Court has interpreted that to exclude felons, even though no such exclusion exists in the Constitution. So, in short, interpretations of the Constitution by the Supreme Court determines the extent of a right - and in the case of abortion, that interpretation is that a woman has a right to choose, balanced against the state's interest. Second, and following the first, all such rights are "equal"; they carry the same Constitutional weight. Third, and derived from the first two, as the Supreme Court interprets all Constitutional rights, it can restrict or expand gun ownership by re-interpreting the Amendment, just as it could the privacy right upon which abortion rests. The only difference - and it makes NO difference as to the validity of the current right of abortion - between the 2nd Amendment and the right to abortion is that the former could only be completely eliminated via Amendment, while the latter could be completely eliminated by the Court. But, again - and most germane to this discussion - it makes no difference as to the current validity of the right. So, the fact that the Constitution does not expressly state a right to abortion, the right is as valid as the right conferred by the 2nd Amendment. Which leads back to my earlier statement - it's a Constitutional right despite your opinion.

 

 

Wrong. That's why there the there are opposing medical opinions on the subject - it hasn't been conclusively proven.

More of the science is heading in the direction of the articles I offered up. Sure, those who believe abortion, including late-term abortion, is acceptable will find opinions to support their cause, but most controversial topics like these will never have fully conclusive evidence.

 

There have been a handful of studies that have addressed the issue of fetal pain. And in each study, the issue of fetal pain was peripheral to the actual study being conducted. Not a single study done to date has conclusively proven that a fetus experiences pain. Not one study that has undergone peer review or that meets the accepted standard of medical evidence. Studies have shown that a fetus reacts to stimulus - but so does a plant or any other form of life. But "more of the science is heading" that way? Simply not true. First, medical ethics generally prohibits that kind of a study; that's one reason that there has never been a study explicitly and expressly to determine the issue. Second, there is no funding to engage in it; until someone comes up with a way to objectively measure "pain" it can't be done. All that can be done is to look at the development of the physical structures that we know are necessary to experience pain. And on that, science is most definitely NOT moving toward it. All that is happening are doctors expressing opinions; for each claiming fetal pain, there is at least one that claims otherwise. So, no, science is not moving that way.

 

Taking science out of it, you can hear a heartbeat at 6 weeks, a baby kicking around 15-20 weeks, and continue to kick for the remainder of the pregnancy. And you are debating whether there is a human inside and think it's ok to kill this baby in the latter stages of pregnancy?

No. Re-read my comments. I addressed two errors you made. I did so very narrowly. When you re-read what I wrote, you'll see that I never broached the subject of late-term pregnancy.

[HuskerShark]

If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, then a woman must avoid having sex?

 

A woman choosing against pregnancy is being selfish? Her considerations for her own life are mere convenience?

 

No, no, no, no, and no. Sigh. Women are people, not baby-gestating factories contracted out by society. Every single unwanted pregnancy sucks; we'd all prevent every last one if we could. And as far as heartwarming stories...no conceivable law would ever mandate an abortion, or am I wrong?

You're right, women are people. So is the baby inside of them. If they choose for that person whether they live or die, that by definition is murder.

[AR Husker Fan]

 

If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, then a woman must avoid having sex?

 

A woman choosing against pregnancy is being selfish? Her considerations for her own life are mere convenience?

 

No, no, no, no, and no. Sigh. Women are people, not baby-gestating factories contracted out by society. Every single unwanted pregnancy sucks; we'd all prevent every last one if we could. And as far as heartwarming stories...no conceivable law would ever mandate an abortion, or am I wrong?

You're right, women are people. So is the baby inside of them. If they choose for that person whether they live or die, that by definition is murder.

 

Wrong. The woman has a right to abort under the holdings of the Supreme Court. So, by definition, it is NOT murder. Murder is defined by law; the law permits abortions.

[HuskerShark]

 

 

For someone who has consensual sex, it was their decision to do so, and they ought to understand the potential result. It's not the woman's life that she's choosing to save or eliminate - it's the baby's. For the woman, it's merely for convenience. Sorry, but if a woman does not want to get pregnant, she needs to exhibit actions that are consistent with that - abstinence or contraceptives.

 

In the case of rape victims, it obviously gets a bit more murky, but there is still no reason to allow murder. There are great stories I've heard of women in that situation who decided to keep the child.

 

Worst case scenario, what's stopping the rape victim from getting the plan B pill and taking it right after the rape to prevent a potential pregnancy?

I'm guessing cost and availability are a couple of them.

Holy crap... If someone on here (a woman) ever gets raped, or you know someone who gets raped, please message me and i will out of the goodness of my heart buy the plan B pill for them.

 

How's that? Or do you have more excuses?

[Red Dead Redemption]

 

If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, then a woman must avoid having sex?

 

A woman choosing against pregnancy is being selfish? Her considerations for her own life are mere convenience?

 

No, no, no, no, and no. Sigh. Women are people, not baby-gestating factories contracted out by society. Every single unwanted pregnancy sucks; we'd all prevent every last one if we could. And as far as heartwarming stories...no conceivable law would ever mandate an abortion, or am I wrong?

You're right, women are people. So is the baby inside of them. If they choose for that person whether they live or die, that by definition is murder.

 

 

Then by that same definition, so is mercifully ending the life of someone terminally ill.

[Red Dead Redemption]

 

 

For someone who has consensual sex, it was their decision to do so, and they ought to understand the potential result. It's not the woman's life that she's choosing to save or eliminate - it's the baby's. For the woman, it's merely for convenience. Sorry, but if a woman does not want to get pregnant, she needs to exhibit actions that are consistent with that - abstinence or contraceptives.

 

In the case of rape victims, it obviously gets a bit more murky, but there is still no reason to allow murder. There are great stories I've heard of women in that situation who decided to keep the child.

 

Worst case scenario, what's stopping the rape victim from getting the plan B pill and taking it right after the rape to prevent a potential pregnancy?

I'm guessing cost and availability are a couple of them.

Holy crap... If someone on here (a woman) ever gets raped, or you know someone who gets raped, please message me and i will out of the goodness of my heart buy the plan B pill for them.

 

How's that? Or do you have more excuses?

 

 

Not excuses. I have no confirmation, I was just guessing (the part where I said "I'm guessing" should have indicated that to you...)

Thanks for the offer, but if it's sincere, I'll bet with just a little effort on your part you could easily be put in contact with those that need/want them.

How's that? Or do you have excuses as to why you won't own up to your self-righteousness and bluster? Are you habitually dishonest?

[mrandyk]

 

 

For someone who has consensual sex, it was their decision to do so, and they ought to understand the potential result. It's not the woman's life that she's choosing to save or eliminate - it's the baby's. For the woman, it's merely for convenience. Sorry, but if a woman does not want to get pregnant, she needs to exhibit actions that are consistent with that - abstinence or contraceptives.

 

In the case of rape victims, it obviously gets a bit more murky, but there is still no reason to allow murder. There are great stories I've heard of women in that situation who decided to keep the child.

 

Worst case scenario, what's stopping the rape victim from getting the plan B pill and taking it right after the rape to prevent a potential pregnancy?

I'm guessing cost and availability are a couple of them.

Holy crap... If someone on here (a woman) ever gets raped, or you know someone who gets raped, please message me and i will out of the goodness of my heart buy the plan B pill for them.

 

How's that? Or do you have more excuses?

 

Plan B pill? Sounds like someone is coming around to the pro-choice side.

[zoogs]

Wow. Appreciate the precision and comprehensiveness, AR. Kudos.

[HuskerShark]

 

 

 

 

For someone who has consensual sex, it was their decision to do so, and they ought to understand the potential result. It's not the woman's life that she's choosing to save or eliminate - it's the baby's. For the woman, it's merely for convenience. Sorry, but if a woman does not want to get pregnant, she needs to exhibit actions that are consistent with that - abstinence or contraceptives.

 

In the case of rape victims, it obviously gets a bit more murky, but there is still no reason to allow murder. There are great stories I've heard of women in that situation who decided to keep the child.

 

Worst case scenario, what's stopping the rape victim from getting the plan B pill and taking it right after the rape to prevent a potential pregnancy?

I'm guessing cost and availability are a couple of them.

Holy crap... If someone on here (a woman) ever gets raped, or you know someone who gets raped, please message me and i will out of the goodness of my heart buy the plan B pill for them.

 

How's that? Or do you have more excuses?

Not excuses. I have no confirmation, I was just guessing.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll bet with just a little effort on your part you could easily be put in contact with those that need/want them.

How's that? Or do you have excuses as to why you won't own up to your self-righteousness and bluster? Are you habitually dishonest?

I've got a lot of irons in the fire, but I'm always charitable whenever i can be. If i come across someone in need such as this, id be glad to help.

[Red Dead Redemption]

 

 

 

 

For someone who has consensual sex, it was their decision to do so, and they ought to understand the potential result. It's not the woman's life that she's choosing to save or eliminate - it's the baby's. For the woman, it's merely for convenience. Sorry, but if a woman does not want to get pregnant, she needs to exhibit actions that are consistent with that - abstinence or contraceptives.

 

In the case of rape victims, it obviously gets a bit more murky, but there is still no reason to allow murder. There are great stories I've heard of women in that situation who decided to keep the child.

 

Worst case scenario, what's stopping the rape victim from getting the plan B pill and taking it right after the rape to prevent a potential pregnancy?

I'm guessing cost and availability are a couple of them.

Holy crap... If someone on here (a woman) ever gets raped, or you know someone who gets raped, please message me and i will out of the goodness of my heart buy the plan B pill for them.

 

How's that? Or do you have more excuses?

Not excuses. I have no confirmation, I was just guessing.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll bet with just a little effort on your part you could easily be put in contact with those that need/want them.

How's that? Or do you have excuses as to why you won't own up to your self-righteousness and bluster? Are you habitually dishonest?

I've got a lot of irons in the fire, but I'm always charitable whenever i can be. If i come across someone in need such as this, id be glad to help.

 

 

Yeah...don't strain yourself ...

you gotta save your energy to pat yourself on the back

[Landlord]

No, no, no, no, and no. Sigh. Women are people, not baby-gestating factories contracted out by society.

 

 

Yes, and somewhere along the line, the babies growing inside of them are also people, not mindless clumps of cellular systems to be discarded.

 

This is incredibly complex and as knapp said, both answers suck, but you don't seem to be trying very hard to actually approach the subject from the side of a possible child that has no voice or agency to defend it's right to live.

 

I know this gets thrown around in memes sometimes, but the different standards we have for determining life are bizarre to me. If we found never before seen DNA on Mars it would be heralded as one of the defining moments in scientific history. We claim proof of macroevolution by bacterial cells reproducing into new, different cells. We have arbitrary cutoff points (in some states a few weeks after the earliest known surviving pre-term baby was born, in 9 states with no restriction on a timeline whatsoever) for when the thing that a woman is pregnant with is a person and not a thing.

 

14 million women in our country can abort a baby at any time during their pregnancy. Theoretically, a 2-3 week timeline of "out of sight, out of mind" is what separates the legal disposal of an unwanted fetus from first degree murder of a human being. Surely THAT can't be right, can it?

[HuskerShark]

 

 

 

 

For someone who has consensual sex, it was their decision to do so, and they ought to understand the potential result. It's not the woman's life that she's choosing to save or eliminate - it's the baby's. For the woman, it's merely for convenience. Sorry, but if a woman does not want to get pregnant, she needs to exhibit actions that are consistent with that - abstinence or contraceptives.

 

In the case of rape victims, it obviously gets a bit more murky, but there is still no reason to allow murder. There are great stories I've heard of women in that situation who decided to keep the child.

 

Worst case scenario, what's stopping the rape victim from getting the plan B pill and taking it right after the rape to prevent a potential pregnancy?

I'm guessing cost and availability are a couple of them.

Holy crap... If someone on here (a woman) ever gets raped, or you know someone who gets raped, please message me and i will out of the goodness of my heart buy the plan B pill for them.

 

How's that? Or do you have more excuses?

Plan B pill? Sounds like someone is coming around to the pro-choice side.

I've already said that i believe the plan B pill toes the line, but it's a much better alternative than waiting for the embryo to attach to the uterine wall and begin developing.

[Enhance]

The lack of compassion and empathy in this thread is incredible.

 

I'm sure some of you commenting here know exactly how you would feel if you were a woman, a man raped you and you got pregnant.

[HuskerShark]

 

 

 

 

 

 

For someone who has consensual sex, it was their decision to do so, and they ought to understand the potential result. It's not the woman's life that she's choosing to save or eliminate - it's the baby's. For the woman, it's merely for convenience. Sorry, but if a woman does not want to get pregnant, she needs to exhibit actions that are consistent with that - abstinence or contraceptives.

 

In the case of rape victims, it obviously gets a bit more murky, but there is still no reason to allow murder. There are great stories I've heard of women in that situation who decided to keep the child.

 

Worst case scenario, what's stopping the rape victim from getting the plan B pill and taking it right after the rape to prevent a potential pregnancy?

I'm guessing cost and availability are a couple of them.

Holy crap... If someone on here (a woman) ever gets raped, or you know someone who gets raped, please message me and i will out of the goodness of my heart buy the plan B pill for them.

 

How's that? Or do you have more excuses?

Not excuses. I have no confirmation, I was just guessing.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll bet with just a little effort on your part you could easily be put in contact with those that need/want them.

How's that? Or do you have excuses as to why you won't own up to your self-righteousness and bluster? Are you habitually dishonest?

I've got a lot of irons in the fire, but I'm always charitable whenever i can be. If i come across someone in need such as this, id be glad to help.

Yeah...don't strain yourself ...

you gotta save your energy to pat yourself on the back

More than I've seen you do, big guy.

[HuskerShark]

The lack of compassion and empathy in this thread is incredible.

 

I'm sure some of you commenting here know exactly how you would feel if you were a woman, a man raped you and you got pregnant.

I absolutely empathize with a woman who gets raped, and if she gets pregnant as a result. That empathy goes away if she chooses to kill the living human inside of her, no matter how difficult that situation may be.