huskerdude171 Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 The option is more effective than a pro style passing offense because it wears down the defense as the game goes on. Plus it is also a ball control offense which will keep the ball out of the opponents hands. NU dominated in the 90's with the option, so why not do it now? I like the option better than the pro style passing attack of college football today. It could still be run effectively with the proper coaching and personnel. Quote Link to comment
husker_blitz Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 They have option in their offense, yes, but I wouldn't say it's based entirely on the option. Osbourns Offense wasn't based entirely on the option. It was more based on the Power Running game and Misdirection/Counter stuff. The Option and Pass was something they mixed in. Exactly! Nebraska never was an "option" offense. But the power running and counter plays worked to set up the option, not that much different than setting up a play-action pass. Sure, the offense would have needed to be tweaked...but the offense was being tweaked every season under Osborne and Solich. The problem was a talent lag and not being tweaked enough. The option offense could and will come back into style, of that I have no doubt. Everything runs in cycles. All it needs is some fresh thinking and a change to, IMO, more leaner, quicker guards that can move and flow with the play. But the same thing is true with all offenses...you need to set it up. Quote Link to comment
AR Husker Fan Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 The option is more effective than a pro style passing offense because it wears down the defense as the game goes on. Plus it is also a ball control offense which will keep the ball out of the opponents hands. NU dominated in the 90's with the option, so why not do it now? I like the option better than the pro style passing attack of college football today. It could still be run effectively with the proper coaching and personnel. And therein lies the issue... The option would still work. However, it would take a coach that is committed to it, understands it, and would run it as Dr. Tom did. It would take superior athletes on the offensive - you simply can't get by with less than superior talent, because it's at that point that the speed an athleticisim of the defense can disrupt the option. Throughout most of the '70s and '80s, the majority of teams we played simply couldn't compete athletically or physically with our talent - but when we matched up against the teams from the south that had speed to burn we suffered. In the '90s, as "average" teams upgraded their talent, so did we. The championship teams were simply physically superior - and in running an offense that required defenses to be disciplined, no one stood a chance. That model would still work. But... There are, I would think, very few coaches that would fit the bill. Navy's coach is closest, but the Service Academies that run the option do so for a reason - when your athletes are not as talented as your opponent, the option allows you to keep the scrore close and is difficult to defend when it's not seen often. But the Service Academies don't stand a chance against obviously superior talent. When the gap isn't that great - noticible but not "Grand Canyon" wide - then the Academies can compete. The other major problem is getting those superior athletes. So long as Nebraska was winning in a huge way, those athletes would consider Nebraska (with the exception of a few specific positions, naturally, such as wide receiver and pro-style quarterbacks). Once that stopped happening under Solich, those type of players dropped Nebraska from consideration. Why? The NFL. When Nebraska was winning national championships, those kids wanted to be a part of it, recognizing the exposure. Now? Not a chance... There's a reason that elite teams that run some option run a spread option - it's far easier to recruit for it. Lineman get to pass-block. Backs get to catch passes out of the backfield. Quarterbacks get to display their passing. Receivers have a chance to post big numbers. The skills that the NFL wants are being used and taught in that offense - as opposed to a "pure" option attack. So, a "pure" option attack would still work - but assembling the pieces to do so are nigh-on to impossible today. Quote Link to comment
husker_blitz Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 There are, I would think, very few coaches that would fit the bill. Navy's coach is closest, but the Service Academies that run the option do so for a reason - when your athletes are not as talented as your opponent, the option allows you to keep the scrore close and is difficult to defend when it's not seen often. But the Service Academies don't stand a chance against obviously superior talent. When the gap isn't that great - noticible but not "Grand Canyon" wide - then the Academies can compete. I think it is unfair to use the service academies as an analogy as to why the academies run the option. Of course the military teams don't generate enough talent to win consistently...hardly anyone wants to be forced to take another four years to serve their tour of duty. Quote Link to comment
California Husker Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 It has been said here many times, but I guess I will chime in with my two cents. First, Nebraska was NOT an option offense in the 90’s. In fact, it was never really a pure option offence. Even with Gill, or Clayton, or McCants, or Taylor…it was never pure option; not the way Oklahoma was pure option with the wishbone. In the 90’s the option was employed, perhaps more than most teams, but Osborne never relied on it entirely. We were much more of a power running team; traps, counters, draws, etc. As for the argument that the defenses in college today are too fast to run the option against, here is a list of current NFL players who played their entire careers prior to the 21st Century (some started their college careers in the late `80’s, but most played their entire college careers in the `90’s). This is only a partial list, and there are many more who are currently playing who played 2-3 years of their college careers in the `90’s. So I think it is safe to say that there were capable, talented, fast players on college defenses in the `90’s. LaVar Arrington Keith Brooking Derrick Brooks Chad Brown Tedy Bruschi Keith Bulluck Na’il Diggs Donnie Edwards Greg Ellis London Fletcher Willie McGinest Dan Morgan Julian Peterson Antonio Pierce Joey Porter Takeo Spikes Asalius Thomas Zach Thomas Jeremiah Trotter Brian Urlacher Mike Vrabel Al Wilson Courtney Brown Kevin Carter Ebenezer Ekuban Shaun Ellis Jevon Kearse Kenard Lang Leonard Little Trevor Pryce Simeon Rice Jason Taylor Renaldo Wynn Bryant Young Champ Baily Ronde Barber Dre Bly Corey Chavous Donovin Darius Brian Dawkins Aaron Glenn Al Harris Rodney Harrison Tory James Sammy Knight Ty Law Sam Madison Dexter McCleon Daylon McCutcheon Mike McKenzie R.W. McQuarters Lawyer Milloy Deltha O’Neal Tyrone Pool Samari Rolle Darren Sharper Shawn Springs Patrick Surtain Troy Vincent Charles Woodson Quote Link to comment
Sugalean Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I gotta agree with Tom Osborne. Any system will work if you consistantly execute at a high level with the right personnel implementing it and the right kind of players executing it. Besides football and its trends go full circle all the time. Take Billy Cee's WCO for instance. IMO it closely resembles KC's Hank Stram's offense of the 70's and the offense Tom Landry used during the 70's and 80's. Even moreso than Bill Walsh's variety of the WCO who is the godfather of the WCO. A lot of shifts and motion, offset formations, shotgun and trickplays. A ton of variety. I've notice that the trick play has made a serious comeback nation wide too. There was a time those type of plays were a staple of a team's attack (like back in the 30's and 40's). Teams were always looking for that triple threat back and routinely some teams had HBs that attempted as many passes as the QB. So who is to say. The option could come back in a formation new to the eye and be the next new fad some day. The shotgun came back and everyone uses it. Why not the option? Quote Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Going back to HANC's post Navy never really played anyone worth a damn this year from what I understand so it's easy to have their offense be effective. It's going to be almost impossible to find someone to run that offense like TO did. IMO the offense we are running now is the right offense and when we are on our game no one can stop us!!! That's the problem with us this year though............inconsistency. HANC no war is going on I respect what you are saying and I can understand both sides of the arguments. I'm just excited to see Nebraska as a passing team, but having said that our running game is also great this year so we are a very well balanced attack team. That in itself will wear a defense down when it's working correctly......... Quote Link to comment
HANC Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I agree BRI, I too love to watch this offense when it is clicking.... It all comes down to the O-line. If Taylor has adequate time, allowing his WR time to run routes, the offense is lethal...... The underneath crossing routes are unstoppalbe if time allows..... Quote Link to comment
Spartness Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 But do you think Callahan would use in rare instances to throw off the defense if a guy like Lee and Ganz starts in the future? Quote Link to comment
HANC Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I do think that BC may implement an occassional option if the right QB is playing. He has shown many times that he is not afraid of using uncoventional plays during a game at any time. It will also help, if we have a little depth at QB..... by running an option, even if it is only a few times a game, puts you QB in a situation for the defense to take a free shot at him..... better have reliable back up ready just in case. Quote Link to comment
BIGREDIOWAN Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 But do you think Callahan would use in rare instances to throw off the defense if a guy like Lee and Ganz starts in the future? If the QB is quicker than Taylor than yes I could see it every now and again to confuse a defense........ Quote Link to comment
DaveH Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 Well if we are going to talk about what Callahan "may" do, you could throw pretty much anything in there. I don't believe Ganz is much quicker than Taylor. Neither is Keller. They aren't very mobile guys. Quote Link to comment
ForRealBigRedFan Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 It would take superior athletes on the offensive - you simply can't get by with less than superior talent, because it's at that point that the speed an athleticisim of the defense can disrupt the option. Throughout most of the '70s and '80s, the majority of teams we played simply couldn't compete athletically or physically with our talent - but when we matched up against the teams from the south that had speed to burn we suffered. The same could be said about any offense, however. Did you see how our faster defenses of the 90's handled the pro-style offenses of the Florida's and Miami's? when your athletes are not as talented as your opponent, the option allows you to keep the scrore close and is difficult to defend when it's not seen often. But the Service Academies don't stand a chance against obviously superior talent. When the gap isn't that great - noticible but not "Grand Canyon" wide - then the Academies can compete. This statement sounds like a vote in favor of the option. Wouldn't any major program who's athletes are "not as talented" benefit from the option, as you have mentioned? The other major problem is getting those superior athletes. So long as Nebraska was winning in a huge way, those athletes would consider Nebraska (with the exception of a few specific positions, naturally, such as wide receiver and pro-style quarterbacks). Once that stopped happening under Solich, those type of players dropped Nebraska from consideration. Why? The NFL. When Nebraska was winning national championships, those kids wanted to be a part of it, recognizing the exposure. Now? Not a chance... It was much easier when Osborne's system was unique and he would recruit guys to fit his system. He could pull almost anyone he wanted. Compare that to the West Coast or any pro-style offense. We are recruiting players from thousands of miles away to come to Lincoln to play in an offesne that is similar to the one that they see in their back yard. Face it it's tougher to fight the Texas schools, LSU, U of G, Florida schools, California schools, and Ohio St for kids in their back yards. Would they rather take on the culture shock of Lincoln, the small town, crappy weather, no beach, no mountain, sub-standard nightlife, far from family and home ambiance of Lincoln? A certain special few will but most will stay in their comfort zone. We now have a pro style offense yet still have not been able to attract the top-notch kids to play in the offense. Under Osborne, NU used to be special, now we are ordinary. Quote Link to comment
DaveH Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Under Osborne, NU used to be special, now we are ordinary. NU was special because of the talent, the coaches, and the support of the team by the community not because of the way they advanced the ball down the field. NU is still far from ordinary and I think it's retarded to define a team what rules of the game they exploit. Quote Link to comment
AR Husker Fan Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 It would take superior athletes on the offensive - you simply can't get by with less than superior talent, because it's at that point that the speed an athleticisim of the defense can disrupt the option. Throughout most of the '70s and '80s, the majority of teams we played simply couldn't compete athletically or physically with our talent - but when we matched up against the teams from the south that had speed to burn we suffered. The same could be said about any offense, however. Did you see how our faster defenses of the 90's handled the pro-style offenses of the Florida's and Miami's? The difference, however, is that the option, run without superior athletes, is easier to defend than offensives that have balance. You simply load the box. Even with less-than-superior athletes across the board in pro-style offenses, the defense has to defend the entire field and both the run and the pass… when your athletes are not as talented as your opponent, the option allows you to keep the scrore close and is difficult to defend when it's not seen often. But the Service Academies don't stand a chance against obviously superior talent. When the gap isn't that great - noticible but not "Grand Canyon" wide - then the Academies can compete. This statement sounds like a vote in favor of the option. Wouldn't any major program who's athletes are "not as talented" benefit from the option, as you have mentioned? Yes…and no. First, as I mentioned, you have to have a coach that is knowledgeable about the option and committed to running it. Those are in short supply – most coaches don’t have the depth of knowledge to run it, or the intestinal fortitude to do so. Ken Hatfield at Rice was one, and running the option for them kept them far more competitive than if they had run a “conventional” offense – because there was little chance they could recruit the kind of kids to run a conventional offense. But Hatfield was the exception – not the rule. There are a number of lower-tier schools that would benefit from running the option – but they would simply become better; they would not join the elite because they still can’t recruit top-notch talent to run it. The other major problem is getting those superior athletes. So long as Nebraska was winning in a huge way, those athletes would consider Nebraska (with the exception of a few specific positions, naturally, such as wide receiver and pro-style quarterbacks). Once that stopped happening under Solich, those type of players dropped Nebraska from consideration. Why? The NFL. When Nebraska was winning national championships, those kids wanted to be a part of it, recognizing the exposure. Now? Not a chance... It was much easier when Osborne's system was unique and he would recruit guys to fit his system. He could pull almost anyone he wanted. Compare that to the West Coast or any pro-style offense. We are recruiting players from thousands of miles away to come to Lincoln to play in an offesne that is similar to the one that they see in their back yard. Face it it's tougher to fight the Texas schools, LSU, U of G, Florida schools, California schools, and Ohio St for kids in their back yards. Would they rather take on the culture shock of Lincoln, the small town, crappy weather, no beach, no mountain, sub-standard nightlife, far from family and home ambiance of Lincoln? A certain special few will but most will stay in their comfort zone. We now have a pro style offense yet still have not been able to attract the top-notch kids to play in the offense. Under Osborne, NU used to be special, now we are ordinary. We have managed to attract top-notch kids – Lucky and Beck were both extremely highly rated. With each class, we’re getting more and more of the upper-tier kids. But it will take time – as you noted, they have to have a reason to come to NU over schools in Florida, California, and Texas. As the wins increase, more kids will consider NU – that’s the nature of the beast. Yes, recruiting for the option means that you don’t go head-to-head with elite schools for “conventional” elite talent – most of the time. But some things have changed since Dr. Tom. With the rise of the “spread” offenses, dual-threat quarterbacks want to go to a school that gives them an opportunity to pass as well as run. Linemen, while they love to run block, want to go to a school that gives them the opportunity to pass-block. Running backs, although they love to run the ball, want to catch passes out of the backfield. Why? Because they all believe that they are going to “the next level”, and want an offense that displays the skills the pros want. That, at least in part, is what hurt Solich – turns out it isn’t quite a “gimme” recruiting the right personnel when they don’t think that the offense will feature them in a way that will attract the pro scouts. I agree that we were unique when we ran the option, simply because very few teams did, and none at the level of NU. I agree that we were special under Dr. Tom – particularly in the ‘90s. But the two are not synonymous. We were unique because of the offense – we were special because of the coaching, talent, and fan support. At the moment, the talent isn’t at that level – but it’s improving with each class. Quote Link to comment
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