bogus 40 times

[robsker]

The highest was a 4.46????

 

This is a slow class.

 

 

No. Actually not. A 4.46 is blazing fast. The average starting NFL RB does not run a true electronic 4.46. The average NFL RB is at 4.5 +/_ .02 or so.

 

Almost no --- make that literally, almost no HS FB athlete in the country runs faster than a true 4.46 electronic 40. Such a 40 time equates, roughly, to a 10.25 100 meters and in HS track nationally --- and more than 1/2 the states have no one that runs that fast.

 

We are just fooled into thinking that there are 4.2 guys out there --- no, there are not --- olympic sprinters yes, but much short of that, no. A true 4.3 is incredably fast --- and few in the NFL qualify as such.

 

4.46 is fast. Marlon's 4.55 is also pretty fast --- not blazing, but a 4.55 electronic for a RB is only modestly below (and probably insignificantly removed from) average. A 4.55 makes speed neither a strength nor a weakness for an NFL RB. Other attributes will determine such. A 4.46 is a fast NFL RB whose speed is a clear strength.

[robsker]

Lucky ran a 4.55 his second time around. That was the time that got him into 10th place out of rb's.

 

40-times do to tend to be inconsistent affairs. You often don't know what conditions they ran under or whether there may have been a bit of timer error.

 

Surface can also play a large role. Field turf is significantly slower than a track surface.

 

I would include surface under conditions but ya. I'd bet a fair amount of 4.4's seen on recruiting-sites were recorded on tracks with trackshoes and tights.

 

 

No. These 4.4's were recorded by coaches who want there players to look good, were hand-held and most 4.4's are true 4.6's.

[robsker]

I wonder if the beating players take in college football wears them down eventually and slows down their times.

 

 

The point I'm tryting to make is that players and recruiting sites lie about the 40 times.

 

 

Bingo. We can generally speaking quantify the lie --- if typical, add a 0.2 to any reported 40 that is in the 4.4 range. The thing is, you don't know who lied and who told the truth. It is common for kid with an honestly recorded 4.55 kid to be faster than the one whose coach lied and said 4.4. You just do not know whosse time is legit and whose is not. So... ignore reported 40 times --- the are MEANINGLESS.

[Eric]

No. Actually not. A 4.46 is blazing fast. The average starting NFL RB does not run a true electronic 4.46. The average NFL RB is at 4.5 +/_ .02 or so.

 

Almost no --- make that literally, almost no HS FB athlete in the country runs faster than a true 4.46 electronic 40. Such a 40 time equates, roughly, to a 10.25 100 meters and in HS track nationally --- and more than 1/2 the states have no one that runs that fast.

 

We are just fooled into thinking that there are 4.2 guys out there --- no, there are not --- olympic sprinters yes, but much short of that, no. A true 4.3 is incredably fast --- and few in the NFL qualify as such.

 

4.46 is fast. Marlon's 4.55 is also pretty fast --- not blazing, but a 4.55 electronic for a RB is only modestly below (and probably insignificantly removed from) average. A 4.55 makes speed neither a strength nor a weakness for an NFL RB. Other attributes will determine such. A 4.46 is a fast NFL RB whose speed is a clear strength.

 

I'll agree that there are not many HS guys that can run a 4.4... Chris Johnson (Titans RB) ran a 4.24 at the combine last year, but he is an exception not the rule.

[MNBIGRED]

All matters how the run with the pads on

[Dundermifflinite]

I think we've all brought up valid points here. To get back to ETR's post, I think the result is a combination of hand-held times/recruiting services/running surface/equipment/added muscle mass/weather conditions, etc.

 

I just clicked on David Oku's rivals.com profile, and I'm willing to wager, that on the rare occasion that he ever gets invited to an NFL combine, he does not run a 4.49.

[Ohio Pete]

I just clicked on David Oku's rivals.com profile, and I'm willing to wager, that on the rare occasion that he ever gets invited to an NFL combine, he does not run a 4.49.

But here's the thing, 10 RBs ran faster than that at the 2008 combine. So what number was Chris Johnson telling people when he was being recruited, 4.1? (He ran a 4.24 at the combine and he plays that fast.)

 

McFadden ran a 4.33 at the combine and Rivals lists him as having run a 4.38 at one of their events. So some guys are really that fast. I guess. As far as figuring out how fast players really are, right now NIKE camps have started and these numbers seem to be decent so they are probably a good indication of how fast everyone is.

[Eric]

But here's the thing, 10 RBs ran faster than that at the 2008 combine. So what number was Chris Johnson telling people when he was being recruited, 4.1? (He ran a 4.24 at the combine and he plays that fast.)

 

Rivals had Chris Johnson listed at 4.4 even, and 2 stars. Just another case of stars not meaning much. Guess he really blossomed at ECU!

[DeathCultArmaggedon]

I ignore all self or coach reported 40 times as a general guideline. I tend to give more weight to the times that were recorded at Scout.com combines (or other similar events), but even those are unreliable as you don't know if they are stop-watch or electronic, etc.

 

I've even considered not listing 40 times on the player profile posts that I create in the forums here, but I guess people like to see them so I elected to continue to include them.

[Ohio Pete]

I ignore all self or coach reported 40 times as a general guideline. I tend to give more weight to the times that were recorded at Scout.com combines (or other similar events), but even those are unreliable as you don't know if they are stop-watch or electronic, etc.

Even the details ESPN listed for their coverage of one of the recent NIKE camps mentioned the track was in terrible condition and likely contributed to slower than expected times. The other thing about the camps is most allow kids to decide to publicize the time they ran or not.

[HuskerJen]

40 times in general are bogus... is .2 seconds in track suits gonna really translate to needing crucial runs in the 4th quarter of a game.

 

Yes. Because when the pads are on both guys the 4.3 guy is still going to be faster than the 4.5 guy. And the .2 difference, as you so foolishly cast aside as bogus, could mean the difference between making that interception / tipping the ball away or getting burnt for a TD.

 

And if you're talking about the NFL having a 4.3 versus 4.5 40 can mean the difference between being a 1st round pick and sliding to the 5th round.

 

Don't get me wrong 4.5 is still pretty legit speed but man, 4.3 is about as close to the Holy Grail as it gets.

 

To the point of this thread though...

 

I don't think recruiting services generally aren't to blame for 40 time inflations. They, usually, just report what the players tell them.

 

One rule of thumb I use when considering 40 times is to ask is it handheld or electronic? As someone mentioned earlier in the thread a handheld 4.4 usually equates to a 4.6 electronic.

[zoogs]

Football is not a straight-line race of 40 yards. That is why 40-yard dashes don't matter that much. And in defense, knowing how to position yourself is a lot more important than straight-line speed. The fastest cornerback who consistently falls out of position isn't going to catch up in time to a crisp route that leaves him in the dust. Yes, speed does still matter. But a 40-yard dash number only tells so much and especially when it comes to HS recruiting...it tells us little.

[HuskerJen]

Football is not a straight-line race of 40 yards. That is why 40-yard dashes don't matter that much. And in defense, knowing how to position yourself is a lot more important than straight-line speed. The fastest cornerback who consistently falls out of position isn't going to catch up in time to a crisp route that leaves him in the dust. Yes, speed does still matter. But a 40-yard dash number only tells so much and especially when it comes to HS recruiting...it tells us little.

 

Sometimes it is a straight line race, for example a DB covering a WR on a fly route, or a FS chasing down a RB to make a touchdown saving tackle. So yes a players 40 time absolutely matters. Now I will agree with you that 40 times have become over-rated and over-hyped due in large measure to espn. However, that's why all those other drills: cone, shuttle, broad and vertical jumps, etc are used by scouts in conjunction with the 40 to determine athletic ability.

[HUSKER 37]

Seems like I was always 5'10.5"..Until I lost an inch while skydiving and had to use my reserve chute on my first jump.

 

But I can still stretch out to 6' at the Dr's office if I wear my hair right, wear the correct shoes, or stand up really straight.

 

I sorta cheated on my 40 time, too.

I stalled around the track until it was just around dusk..Then picked out the near sighted assistant coach to time me..Plus I may have taken a shortcut..Ran my first and only 5.0

[Huskers Forever]

Football is not a straight-line race of 40 yards. That is why 40-yard dashes don't matter that much. And in defense, knowing how to position yourself is a lot more important than straight-line speed. The fastest cornerback who consistently falls out of position isn't going to catch up in time to a crisp route that leaves him in the dust. Yes, speed does still matter. But a 40-yard dash number only tells so much and especially when it comes to HS recruiting...it tells us little.

 

Sometimes it is a straight line race, for example a DB covering a WR on a fly route, or a FS chasing down a RB to make a touchdown saving tackle. So yes a players 40 time absolutely matters. Now I will agree with you that 40 times have become over-rated and over-hyped due in large measure to espn. However, that's why all those other drills: cone, shuttle, broad and vertical jumps, etc are used by scouts in conjunction with the 40 to determine athletic ability.

Are you really a girl? You're have more knowledge about football than about 90% of the guys on here.