The Forgotten Man

[NoKoolAidForME]

i feel extremely bad for this guy. why? because they never gave him a chance after CG f*cked up. they always gave it back to zac lee to f*ck it up a little more, i feel like he never got his chance in a few of the games he should have.. to me its BS, very unfair

You are not giving a chance in football the chance is earned. It does not look very good for him as it is obvious that Cody has no idea what he is looking at as he attempt to read defenses. Zac Lee is our best option to hand the ball off and try to not turn it over. If he hasn't gotten in; maybe he is just very far behind.

[huzkerbob]

Has anyone given the thought of possibly Rex Burkehead playing the QB position? I know this is stretching the topic pretty far now, but he did play QB in High School and I see him much like an Eric Crouch.

 

[Igetbored216]

You are not giving a chance in football the chance is earned. It does not look very good for him as it is obvious that Cody has no idea what he is looking at as he attempt to read defenses. Zac Lee is our best option to hand the ball off and try to not turn it over. If he hasn't gotten in; maybe he is just very far behind.

 

So you're saying that Cody Green couldn't get into the game and hand off the ball? Not sure if you noticed, but that's pretty much all Lee has been doing. He hasn't exactly been doing a whole lot of anything. He threw THREE picks in the Big 12 Championship and the offense moved the ball about 100 yards - half of that was from the RBs. You're saying Cody Green would be worse?

 

I'm not saying Cody Green is going to totally change the offense because he's not. None of the QBs we have are very good, but I am just tired of hearing the "Lee is our best chance to win". Based on what? Yeah, he sure can hand off the ball good. I'm sure Green couldn't do it nearly as good as Lee.

[HuckFoley]

Couple of things... LTW should have redshirted this year, OR CG should have redshirted this year. The fact that the staff chose to play both, is one major screw up in my opinion.

 

Second, LTW showed what he could do in last years spring game, and the coaches responded with quotes like "we were a little surprised" and then stuff like he will make an excellent backup etc.

 

It reminds me of the Keller/Ganz situation, where the coaching staff at that time, Wats included, chose Keller over Ganz.

 

I know Bo thinks practice equates to game day production, but that is just aa generalization, and rubbish to me.

 

What matters is game day production, not necessarily how well you do in practice.

 

We have seen this from Zach Lee, who purportedly practices great, then folds on game day.

 

Couldn't the opposite be true?

 

We could have had LTW for 2 more years if they hadn't put LTW in 6-7 snaps or whatever they gave him early on.

 

Then they changed gears, and burned CG's redshirt.

 

Water under the bridge now since we can't change that.

 

What to do with LTW?

 

Personally, I would start him next year, Lee can be a backup, and give CG a redshirt year.

 

Kellog Jr moves to 3rd string, and Martinez moves to receiver.

 

Spano, unfortunately will never be right with those 2 acl injuries.

 

it's also important to get a dul threat QB in this years class.

[knapplc]

Couple of things... LTW should have redshirted this year, OR CG should have redshirted this year. The fact that the staff chose to play both, is one major screw up in my opinion.

 

Second, LTW showed what he could do in last years spring game, and the coaches responded with quotes like "we were a little surprised" and then stuff like he will make an excellent backup etc.

 

It reminds me of the Keller/Ganz situation, where the coaching staff at that time, Wats included, chose Keller over Ganz.

 

I know Bo thinks practice equates to game day production, but that is just aa generalization, and rubbish to me.

 

What matters is game day production, not necessarily how well you do in practice.

 

We have seen this from Zach Lee, who purportedly practices great, then folds on game day.

 

Couldn't the opposite be true?

 

We could have had LTW for 2 more years if they hadn't put LTW in 6-7 snaps or whatever they gave him early on.

 

Then they changed gears, and burned CG's redshirt.

 

Water under the bridge now since we can't change that.

 

What to do with LTW?

 

Personally, I would start him next year, Lee can be a backup, and give CG a redshirt year.

 

Kellog Jr moves to 3rd string, and Martinez moves to receiver.

 

Spano, unfortunately will never be right with those 2 acl injuries.

 

it's also important to get a dul threat QB in this years class.

I agree LTW should have redshirted this year, but when Spano went down both he and Green were destined to see the field. LTW is never going to be more than a career backup, so the theory that he'll be starting next year is bosh. Sure, we could have him for a couple of more years... of what? Wild inaccuracy? Rough edges? Burning his shirt for the fraction of plays he's been in on sucks, I agree. But even if we hadn't, LTW hasn't shown anything that would make a person think he'd get it done on game day.

 

I was at the 2009 Spring Game and LTW looked good running the ball. However, the caveat to that is he didn't run it against our first-string defense. By the time he got in the game most of our starters were out. On top of that he was no-contact, and there were a couple of runs where he was touched but they didn't blow the whistle. Passing he was as wild as they come; zero touch on the ball, questionable accuracy, and again not facing our top defenders.

 

You bring up Keller/Ganz, but it doesn't prove your point. First of all, Keller was clearly superior to Ganz in the Spring Game. It wasn't even close. Ganzy wasn't hitting his WRs in stride, they had to run to a spot and he would throw the ball there. Keller was releasing before his receivers made their breaks, and hitting them in stride. It is a revision of history to say that Ganz was clearly superior to Keller, and despite that, Keller started. Keller was better, and should have started. Keller was never the problem with that team.

 

You say practice shouldn't be a barometer for game-day starts. You'd better get on the horn and tell that to every High School, College (all levels) and NFL coaches, because none of them have figured that out yet. They're all still hanging on to that old, outdated philosophy that the players who practice best get the start. Yes, in-game production is paramount to wins/losses, but you're taking an awful risk starting a guy who practices poorly on game day. Most any coach won't do that.

 

I have watched every snap LTW took this year, from the Spring Game to the garbage time against the Sun Belt, and there's nothing I've seen that would make me think the foundation he provides makes for a better base to build on that what Cody Green or even Zac Lee provides heading into next season. If we're passing the ball at all, LTW isn't our guy. He's just too raw, too inaccurate. He has no touch on his passes - he about knocked a hole in Brooks when he rifled that TD into him in April, and several more passes skipped off hands because he fired them in so hard.

[HuckFoley]

Couple of things... LTW should have redshirted this year, OR CG should have redshirted this year. The fact that the staff chose to play both, is one major screw up in my opinion.

 

Second, LTW showed what he could do in last years spring game, and the coaches responded with quotes like "we were a little surprised" and then stuff like he will make an excellent backup etc.

 

It reminds me of the Keller/Ganz situation, where the coaching staff at that time, Wats included, chose Keller over Ganz.

 

I know Bo thinks practice equates to game day production, but that is just aa generalization, and rubbish to me.

 

What matters is game day production, not necessarily how well you do in practice.

 

We have seen this from Zach Lee, who purportedly practices great, then folds on game day.

 

Couldn't the opposite be true?

 

We could have had LTW for 2 more years if they hadn't put LTW in 6-7 snaps or whatever they gave him early on.

 

Then they changed gears, and burned CG's redshirt.

 

Water under the bridge now since we can't change that.

 

What to do with LTW?

 

Personally, I would start him next year, Lee can be a backup, and give CG a redshirt year.

 

Kellog Jr moves to 3rd string, and Martinez moves to receiver.

 

Spano, unfortunately will never be right with those 2 acl injuries.

 

it's also important to get a dul threat QB in this years class.

I agree LTW should have redshirted this year, but when Spano went down both he and Green were destined to see the field. LTW is never going to be more than a career backup, so the theory that he'll be starting next year is bosh. Sure, we could have him for a couple of more years... of what? Wild inaccuracy? Rough edges? Burning his shirt for the fraction of plays he's been in on sucks, I agree. But even if we hadn't, LTW hasn't shown anything that would make a person think he'd get it done on game day.

 

I was at the 2009 Spring Game and LTW looked good running the ball. However, the caveat to that is he didn't run it against our first-string defense. By the time he got in the game most of our starters were out. On top of that he was no-contact, and there were a couple of runs where he was touched but they didn't blow the whistle. Passing he was as wild as they come; zero touch on the ball, questionable accuracy, and again not facing our top defenders.

 

You bring up Keller/Ganz, but it doesn't prove your point. First of all, Keller was clearly superior to Ganz in the Spring Game. It wasn't even close. Ganzy wasn't hitting his WRs in stride, they had to run to a spot and he would throw the ball there. Keller was releasing before his receivers made their breaks, and hitting them in stride. It is a revision of history to say that Ganz was clearly superior to Keller, and despite that, Keller started. Keller was better, and should have started. Keller was never the problem with that team.

 

You say practice shouldn't be a barometer for game-day starts. You'd better get on the horn and tell that to every High School, College (all levels) and NFL coaches, because none of them have figured that out yet. They're all still hanging on to that old, outdated philosophy that the players who practice best get the start. Yes, in-game production is paramount to wins/losses, but you're taking an awful risk starting a guy who practices poorly on game day. Most any coach won't do that.

 

I have watched every snap LTW took this year, from the Spring Game to the garbage time against the Sun Belt, and there's nothing I've seen that would make me think the foundation he provides makes for a better base to build on that what Cody Green or even Zac Lee provides heading into next season. If we're passing the ball at all, LTW isn't our guy. He's just too raw, too inaccurate. He has no touch on his passes - he about knocked a hole in Brooks when he rifled that TD into him in April, and several more passes skipped off hands because he fired them in so hard.

 

"wild inaccuracy"? dude, LTW is not inaccurate, he just throws the ball very very hard. that is the knock on him.

 

" was at the 2009 Spring Game and LTW looked good running the ball. However, the caveat to that is he didn't run it against our first-string defense. By the time he got in the game most of our starters were out."

 

LTW started the spring game and threw 2 TD's against a mix of players, in the first half, and they used a lottery system, so no one played against the 1string anything.

 

Keller did not look better to me in the prior spring game, but that is debateable of course.

 

Ask TO how Eric Crouch practiced.. and why bobby newcombe got the starting job to begin that season.

 

I watched LTW on every snap he has taken as well, and respectfully disagree with you on his immediate production.

[knapplc]

LaTravis went 13/21 in the Spring Game in a no-contact role. He sprayed the ball around and when he did hit his target, he threw it so hard it was hard to catch. That has been the knock on him, you're right. He threw a low ball, a la Scott Frost, and it wasn't all that great.

 

I'm not trying to pump up any other QB when I say this, I'm just saying that LTW is not the answer to our QB problems. If we were running an Option game and he had a couple of years to get acclimated, maybe, but in this offense he's nothing more than a desperate measure.

 

He's not garbage. If you take away Kyler Reed's catch and run (71 yards), LTW averaged something like ten yards per completion in April. That's not bad. But if LTW is the answer to our QB problem, we're asking the wrong question.

[HuckFoley]

my point is that he is a gamer and produces as an athlete...

 

some of those things are intangibles that don't always show up on the "grading" system.

 

he may not be the answer, but I will float you this much:

 

Lee isn't the answer

Green is going to need more time

 

So, I don't find it too far fetched to give LTW a serious look, but then I'm not Watson.

 

And no, I don't really have allot of confidence in our OC, but that is just me.

 

(quick edit... did the math, 13/21 is 61.9%)

[knapplc]

my point is that he is a gamer and produces as an athlete...

 

some of those things are intangibles that don't always show up on the "grading" system.

 

he may not be the answer, but I will float you this much:

 

Lee isn't the answer

Green is going to need more time

 

So, I don't find it too far fetched to give LTW a serious look, but then I'm not Watson.

 

And no, I don't really have allot of confidence in our OC, but that is just me.

I agree that Lee probably isn't the answer (I hold out hope for an off-season miracle), and that Green needs more time, but I just don't see what you see in Washington that makes you think he's going to be ahead of Green come August next year. Of the two, Green has in-game experience and has produced a win, albeit against a weak Baylor team. Of the two, Green is more of a pure QB. Washington is a heck of an athlete and if we had him at QB from the get-go I'd say he's part of the solution, but with this late switch in his college career he's so far behind the curve I don't know if he'll make up ground fast enough.

 

It'll be fun to see what happens in April. I think one thing we can be sure of - the offense can't get any worse.

[HuckFoley]

the knock I have on green is this..

 

he was very mature for his age.

 

what does that mean?

 

He was a "man" playing amongst "boys" in high school.

 

This made him look good.

 

Now that the rest of the boys are maturing and getting to his size and speed, he doesn't look so great.

 

When I reviewed CG film, I didn't see anything that outstanding. It was more like they had a 24 year old playing against 16 year olds.

 

Now that he is in college, others have caught up, and that "upside" has evaporated.

 

I think Josh Freeman has more talent to be honest.

 

So I know I will get hammered for saying all that, but really, what in his film made anyone think he was really that great?

 

I just don't get it other than him being physically more mature than his competition and a decent runner in high school.

[knapplc]

Josh Freeman is a starting QB in the NFL, so that's hardly a knock against Cody.

 

Green is young. True Freshmen rarely have major impacts. He clearly is raw, he needs polishing, and he needs to learn more. The game appeared too fast for him this year, which is completely understandable.

 

I'm not a huge proponent of Green's right now. If Spano stays healthy then Green redshirts this year, as he should have. But the future of Green should be fine with proper development.

[GSG]

the knock I have on green is this..

 

he was very mature for his age.

 

what does that mean?

 

He was a "man" playing amongst "boys" in high school.

 

This made him look good.

 

Now that the rest of the boys are maturing and getting to his size and speed, he doesn't look so great.

 

When I reviewed CG film, I didn't see anything that outstanding. It was more like they had a 24 year old playing against 16 year olds.

 

Now that he is in college, others have caught up, and that "upside" has evaporated.

 

I think Josh Freeman has more talent to be honest.

 

So I know I will get hammered for saying all that, but really, what in his film made anyone think he was really that great?

 

I just don't get it other than him being physically more mature than his competition and a decent runner in high school.

 

I know exactly how you feel. I think a lot of people really blew the expectations out the window. I know my dad kept making me find more film of CG online cuz he was so impressed. I'm not cutting down CG at all either. He's still a helluva athlete and I think he still has a ton of upside, but someone is going to have to coach that upside into being an awesome QB.

[HuckFoley]

true... CG can still be successful and develop with good coaching.

 

the thread being about LTW, I would put him in the drivers seat for next year.

 

Just my 2 cents on what we have as the best QB to field in 2010.

[GSG]

^^ That's definitely possible. From what we saw this year, it's anybody's spot to claim.

[knapplc]

^^ That's definitely possible. From what we saw this year, it's anybody's spot to claim.

The only thing is, he's not remotely close to the "driver's seat," which is the contention. Zac Lee has eight D1 wins under his belt. LTW has 17 D1 snaps under his belt. There is no way LTW is in the driver's seat.

 

We would have to change our offensive philosophy to suit Washington's skills (running with a little bit of pass mixed in). We would have to hope that Washington's grasp of the playbook explodes over the off season. We would have to hope that neither Lee nor Green progresses at all from this point. Finally, we would have to hope that Kody Spano and/or Taylor Martinez do nothing in the Spring/Summer to catch the attention of the coaches. Toss in Scout Team MVP Kellogg there, too.

 

The deck is most certainly stacked against LaTravis. Nobody is denying that he's an athlete. But so is Martinez, Green, and Spano, and to a lesser extent Lee.

 

Let's not forget that Washington was a transfer (Witt) and an injury (Spano) away from remaining buried in the LB depth chart this season. He's not the QB they're looking for, he's the desperation QB they found at the back of the shelf.

 

If LTW starts and can move the ball, I'm all for him. I'll be his biggest fan. But I'm not holding my breath.