A look at the health care overhaul bill

[carlfense]

I'm sorry but I look at several countries around the world that have simular health care systems and they hate it and it doesnt work. The state of New Jersey has a simular health care plan and they hate it. Which is why Senator Brown was such a popular pick when that seat became vacant.

 

Which countries are you looking at? And do you mean Massachusetts, not New Jersey?

 

Yes. My fault. Couldnt remember which one Coach.

No worries. I'd forgotten about him until you mentioned his name.

 

Socialized healthcare is both good and bad, like Carlfense said, though. My sister-in-law lives in France and has had two children under their plan. She raves about it, and wishes we had something similar here. Then there's healthcare like Canada's, which isn't all that swell. It has more to do with the country and the people running it than the "socialized" nature of it.

 

What I'm hoping for in this whole process is that this is at least a step in the right direction. Nobody thinks this bill fixes all our woes. If they do I question their knowledge of the bill. It's going to take years to fix healthcare, and hopefully this is that first step.

 

Maybe if it's a disaster we can modify it or repeal it reasonably easily. No Child Left Behind had great intentions but has failed to live up to expectations, and is under modification right now. Hopefully this doesn't do to healthcare what NCLB did to education. We'll see.

Well put. I hope this bill improves the health care sisuation in the United States . . . and if it does not I hope that we can repeal or modify it to find something that does work.

[knapplc]

Be a man and tell me who voted that post down. What was so objectionable about it? I'm not advocating for this bill, I'm trying to find out where people are coming up with their opinions.

 

By the way, I wasn't kidding about this. I'd like to have an honest discussion with whomever has voted my posts in this thread down. I'm not going to do anything to you, I just want to know your reasoning.

 

Remember that the Reputation feature is still on probation. Random votes up or down without valid reasons will get the whole system axed. Feel free to PM me, without fear of vengeance, if you'd rather not discuss it here.

 

Thanks.

[EZ-E]

Is that $2.3 trillion above and beyond what we already spend as a nation or will some of our current expenses be absorbed into that figure? And how much do we spend as a nation on healthcare right now, before this bill?

 

I couldnt tell you. I didnt hear too many specifics. They had a big spreadsheet type thing up but I turned it off and didnt pay too much attention to it.

[74Hunter]

Simply because now the government tells me that I HAVE to have health insurance, regardless of whether I want it or not, regardless of who will pay for it.

Like they tell you that you have to wear a motorcycle helmet or that you have to buy a building permit to add on to your house? How is this different than any other government mandated rule or requirement?

 

Just wait until you have to have a procedure okayed by a government panel instead of a doctor before you can have it done.

Which part of the bill requires this?

 

Oh, and now ALL of your medical records will be in the GOVERNMENT'S database (can you say invasion of privacy).

Which part of the bill gives the government the right to your medical records?

 

If that isn't good enough, just wait for doctors to quit practicing because they won't be able to deal with the government red tape. There is a reason why Canadians USED to come to the USA for healthcare, even when they had a government-run health care system.

This sounds like the bar owners telling us they'd all go out of business when Lincoln passed the smoking ban a few years back. All the major bars downtown are still in business, near as I can recollect.

I can't quote exacts at this time, some of this is looking at worse case scenarios. I have a great distrust for government, and anything it puts its hands on. Some of them have not been presented yet, but all you have to do is look at gun control and how it becomes more intrusive every day (frog in the pot of water). The major problem is that this bill does not make health care more affordable, and it COULD (likely will if you look at government's track record) lead to some pretty bad happenings. I think that the national health record database is something that Obama has done even prior to this bill, but don't quote me on it.

[74Hunter]

Be a man and tell me who voted that post down. What was so objectionable about it? I'm not advocating for this bill, I'm trying to find out where people are coming up with their opinions.

 

By the way, I wasn't kidding about this. I'd like to have an honest discussion with whomever has voted my posts in this thread down. I'm not going to do anything to you, I just want to know your reasoning.

 

Remember that the Reputation feature is still on probation. Random votes up or down without valid reasons will get the whole system axed. Feel free to PM me, without fear of vengeance, if you'd rather not discuss it here.

 

Thanks.

It may have been me(I can't remember) simply because I disagree with some of what you said. I guess I don't know much about the reputation deal, what is it, can it get someone banned or something?

[knapplc]

I can't quote exacts at this time, some of this is looking at worse case scenarios. I have a great distrust for government, and anything it puts its hands on. Some of them have not been presented yet, but all you have to do is look at gun control and how it becomes more intrusive every day (frog in the pot of water). The major problem is that this bill does not make health care more affordable, and it COULD (likely will if you look at government's track record) lead to some pretty bad happenings. I think that the national health record database is something that Obama has done even prior to this bill, but don't quote me on it.

 

Eh. It could, sure, but that's not a guarantee. I investigate legislation for the government, so I have some insight into what can happen if the government is well-intentioned and uses common sense. You and I both know that doesn't always happen, but that's where our role as government watchdogs comes in. We have to police the government, and do it diligently.

 

Agree or disagree with this bill or its provisions or its methods, the fact that so many people are paying attention to the g'ment is great. The more we watch them, and the more they know we're watching, the better our government will be.

 

Hopefully.

[knapplc]

Be a man and tell me who voted that post down. What was so objectionable about it? I'm not advocating for this bill, I'm trying to find out where people are coming up with their opinions.

 

By the way, I wasn't kidding about this. I'd like to have an honest discussion with whomever has voted my posts in this thread down. I'm not going to do anything to you, I just want to know your reasoning.

 

Remember that the Reputation feature is still on probation. Random votes up or down without valid reasons will get the whole system axed. Feel free to PM me, without fear of vengeance, if you'd rather not discuss it here.

 

Thanks.

It may have been me(I can't remember) simply because I disagree with some of what you said. I guess I don't know much about the reputation deal, what is it, can it get someone banned or something?

Banned? NO!!!! Absolutely not. Please don't even think about that. People are safe from any retribution with this system.

 

The absolute worst that can happen is that if people are using it as a tool to "get back at" each other we'll just turn it off. The most likely thing that'll happen is that we'll change it so you can only give positive feedback to people.

 

Thanks for your reply. Sorry to hijack.

[74Hunter]

Be a man and tell me who voted that post down. What was so objectionable about it? I'm not advocating for this bill, I'm trying to find out where people are coming up with their opinions.

 

By the way, I wasn't kidding about this. I'd like to have an honest discussion with whomever has voted my posts in this thread down. I'm not going to do anything to you, I just want to know your reasoning.

 

Remember that the Reputation feature is still on probation. Random votes up or down without valid reasons will get the whole system axed. Feel free to PM me, without fear of vengeance, if you'd rather not discuss it here.

 

Thanks.

It may have been me(I can't remember) simply because I disagree with some of what you said. I guess I don't know much about the reputation deal, what is it, can it get someone banned or something?

Banned? NO!!!! Absolutely not. Please don't even think about that. People are safe from any retribution with this system.

 

The absolute worst that can happen is that if people are using it as a tool to "get back at" each other we'll just turn it off. The most likely thing that'll happen is that we'll change it so you can only give positive feedback to people.

 

Thanks for your reply. Sorry to hijack.

Sorry, I just used it when I disagreed with a post. Maybe I'm doing that incorrectly/

[knapplc]

Sorry, I just used it when I disagreed with a post. Maybe I'm doing that incorrectly/

 

I love the discussion, which is why I come to message boards. What I don't like - and this is knapplc without the Mod Hat on, just me personally - is when the conversation has no substance and turns into "LOL" or "yeah that" and there's nothing there. I love to discuss stuff, but when the interaction is just +1 or -1, there's no conversation. Ten of us can make a statement by gigging someone's post down to -10, which is clearly a message of dislike, but how does that allow the poster to respond?

 

I've gigged posts before, but I've explained why along with it. It gives someone a chance to respond, and show me how my opinion was wrong. That's also why I rarely -1 a post. You make far more of a point explaining how someone is wrong (or how you think they're wrong, anyway) than by just pushing a button.

[RockyMountainOySker]

Is that $2.3 trillion above and beyond what we already spend as a nation or will some of our current expenses be absorbed into that figure? And how much do we spend as a nation on healthcare right now, before this bill?

 

I couldnt tell you. I didnt hear too many specifics. They had a big spreadsheet type thing up but I turned it off and didnt pay too much attention to it.

My biggest issue with this is Obama and his administration felt the need to rush this through in order to get anything in the healthcare debate passed. IMO, Nancy Pelosi knew for a fact that if this debate literally debated every issue in the 1000+ pages in the bill, it would stand no chance. So now all of us are discussing this issue with limited (or no) information. I watched a video interview with Obama and he was actually getting angry with the interviewer as he would ask about specific pieces in the bill.....Obama didn't know the answers (really apologize, i tried to find it but couldn't).

 

It is just like the government to rush something rather than DO THE RIGHT THING. The right thing might be an overhaul into a socialized system but let's take the time to make sure we do it right. None of the major government programs currently work.....

 

I don't even want to get into where the money will come from.

 

This country was built on the idea of less national government, more state power, and privatization. We became this powerful country b/c of competition in every form of business and we need to remember that.

[knapplc]

The "rushing through" seems to be the biggest issue most of us have. What we don't want to find out two years from now is that, due to this rushing through, we got a crap law foisted on us that scored political points (or at least was intended to) and ended up not solving anything.

 

We have real problems in healthcare. I don't think anyone thinks our healthcare system is perfect, or cost effective. I think most people would like to see some kind of reform, but we don't know if this is it. It might be, but if it is, it'll be because we're lucky, not because our lawmakers were fully prepared.

[jnkyrdoff6]

Is that $2.3 trillion above and beyond what we already spend as a nation or will some of our current expenses be absorbed into that figure? And how much do we spend as a nation on healthcare right now, before this bill?

 

I couldnt tell you. I didnt hear too many specifics. They had a big spreadsheet type thing up but I turned it off and didnt pay too much attention to it.

My biggest issue with this is Obama and his administration felt the need to rush this through in order to get anything in the healthcare debate passed. IMO, Nancy Pelosi knew for a fact that if this debate literally debated every issue in the 1000+ pages in the bill, it would stand no chance. So now all of us are discussing this issue with limited (or no) information. I watched a video interview with Obama and he was actually getting angry with the interviewer as he would ask about specific pieces in the bill.....Obama didn't know the answers (really apologize, i tried to find it but couldn't).

 

It is just like the government to rush something rather than DO THE RIGHT THING. The right thing might be an overhaul into a socialized system but let's take the time to make sure we do it right. None of the major government programs currently work.....

 

I don't even want to get into where the money will come from.

 

This country was built on the idea of less national government, more state power, and privatization. We became this powerful country b/c of competition in every form of business and we need to remember that.

I hear people say this all the time. We monetize our debt in dollars. Because of that, we'll be able to run a national deficit as long as other nations continue to buy our debt. It's hard to say what will happen if that stops. We might just go to war with everyone. :lol, but kind of crying on the inside. I don't agree with our current monetary or foreign policy, but that's what we do.

 

p.s. I haven't been on this site in a while. How do you insert emoticons now? I don't seem to have any user friendly tabs anywhere.

[RockyMountainOySker]

Is that $2.3 trillion above and beyond what we already spend as a nation or will some of our current expenses be absorbed into that figure? And how much do we spend as a nation on healthcare right now, before this bill?

 

I couldnt tell you. I didnt hear too many specifics. They had a big spreadsheet type thing up but I turned it off and didnt pay too much attention to it.

My biggest issue with this is Obama and his administration felt the need to rush this through in order to get anything in the healthcare debate passed. IMO, Nancy Pelosi knew for a fact that if this debate literally debated every issue in the 1000+ pages in the bill, it would stand no chance. So now all of us are discussing this issue with limited (or no) information. I watched a video interview with Obama and he was actually getting angry with the interviewer as he would ask about specific pieces in the bill.....Obama didn't know the answers (really apologize, i tried to find it but couldn't).

 

It is just like the government to rush something rather than DO THE RIGHT THING. The right thing might be an overhaul into a socialized system but let's take the time to make sure we do it right. None of the major government programs currently work.....

 

I don't even want to get into where the money will come from.

 

This country was built on the idea of less national government, more state power, and privatization. We became this powerful country b/c of competition in every form of business and we need to remember that.

I hear people say this all the time. We monetize our debt in dollars. Because of that, we'll be able to run a national deficit as long as other nations continue to buy our debt. It's hard to say what will happen if that stops. We might just go to war with everyone. :lol, but kind of crying on the inside. I don't agree with our current monetary or foreign policy, but that's what we do.

 

p.s. I haven't been on this site in a while. How do you insert emoticons now? I don't seem to have any user friendly tabs anywhere.

If you click the icon's image it should automatically insert itself into your post.....

 

You had to comment on the one thing I said I didn't think should be discussed. And now I have to comment on it........China will not be paying for the healthcare bill. It will start with taxes.

[jnkyrdoff6]

Is that $2.3 trillion above and beyond what we already spend as a nation or will some of our current expenses be absorbed into that figure? And how much do we spend as a nation on healthcare right now, before this bill?

 

I couldnt tell you. I didnt hear too many specifics. They had a big spreadsheet type thing up but I turned it off and didnt pay too much attention to it.

My biggest issue with this is Obama and his administration felt the need to rush this through in order to get anything in the healthcare debate passed. IMO, Nancy Pelosi knew for a fact that if this debate literally debated every issue in the 1000+ pages in the bill, it would stand no chance. So now all of us are discussing this issue with limited (or no) information. I watched a video interview with Obama and he was actually getting angry with the interviewer as he would ask about specific pieces in the bill.....Obama didn't know the answers (really apologize, i tried to find it but couldn't).

 

It is just like the government to rush something rather than DO THE RIGHT THING. The right thing might be an overhaul into a socialized system but let's take the time to make sure we do it right. None of the major government programs currently work.....

 

I don't even want to get into where the money will come from.

 

This country was built on the idea of less national government, more state power, and privatization. We became this powerful country b/c of competition in every form of business and we need to remember that.

I hear people say this all the time. We monetize our debt in dollars. Because of that, we'll be able to run a national deficit as long as other nations continue to buy our debt. It's hard to say what will happen if that stops. We might just go to war with everyone. :lol, but kind of crying on the inside. I don't agree with our current monetary or foreign policy, but that's what we do.

 

p.s. I haven't been on this site in a while. How do you insert emoticons now? I don't seem to have any user friendly tabs anywhere.

If you click the icon's image it should automatically insert itself into your post.....

 

You had to comment on the one thing I said I didn't think should be discussed. And now I have to comment on it........China will not be paying for the healthcare bill. It will start with taxes.

I'm sorry. I never saw you say you didn't want it discussed.

 

Well, that's another alternative. We could hike up interest rates and tax like madmen. There's no way, though, that this behemoth of a bill can be totally footed by tax dollars. If it is, other programs will be paid for by foreign nations. I haven't looked up the figures in a while, but I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar our GDP is greatly exceeded by the cost of our social programs. It may start with taxes, but it will end with us selling our debt. If it's not China it will be another nation. We just go with China because they give us the best rate. The international debt market is similar to the national one in that way. We might print way more money too. Like I said we can't go bankrupt, because our money is backed up in dollars. we can hyper-inflate.

[holvy83]

I understand that rushing this bill can have serious negative impacts, but Health Care Reform is something that has been discussed and needed for years, how long can this continue to go on before someone finally stepped up to the plate? Of course I am dreaming, but until all parties start working together on this nothing will get resolved. I am just curious on why people are so scared of this? Aren't we already paying for spending by previous administrations on their blunders? Seems like the cycle continues, so what's new?