Clues to Our 'new' Offense...

[RedDenver]

And thats why Nu does not have very good records for awhile. Running a spread like the sec is good and all as long as you dont play power run teams every week. The sec took it to the B10 this year, but those guys dont have to play big power run teams week in and week out. If it's hard to keep a 200 to 215 pound back healthy all year in B10 play, how do you think a 180 pound back will fair against 220 pound line backers? No run game turns a team into a one dimensional team. While a pass orientated team can have some sucess, I dont deny, they are rarely a serious contender. Just ask Persa from northwestern.

Michigan running a spread offense was the best in the B10 last year.

[bshirt]

The key is to be good enough and far ahead enough to let the others play. We have not had that nor done that in a very long long time. You have to have backups that can play the game you want to play. It is not fair to have them set the bench year after year and then the starter graduates and he has no experience. It does seem we tried it a little this year with Green, but I think he only played because Martinez was hurt. Never a plan to get him on the field in crucial situations. Other than you are the best we have left, play.

 

I am not sure how well our O, or supposed O will work in the Big Ten. As far s Lamichael having a good year, he was pretty much shut down against the only defense he faced this year. That being Auburn.

 

I think we are in for an eye opening run. A very tough physical schedule this year. The question is more about depth I think than starters. You guys know alot more about that than I do. But that is my main concern, having the ability to shuffle players in and not have tremendous drop off.

You're right except for the fact that they played him a least on series a half in all those game before TM was hurt just like the coaches had stated they would from day one and often he was put in horrible situations when he was put in.

 

I think this offense works pretty good against the Big 10, Michigan had great success and if they would have had a defense they probably had a shot at winning the damn thing. I think we are extremely lucky Rich Rod got the ax and wasn't allowed to fix his D with a new DC. Hoke will be much easier to beat over the next 5-10 years if he lasts that long.

 

Wow....well, the overwhelming majority of Michigan fans on the internet are thrilled he's gone. I can hardly blame them as their defense is horrid beyong belief as has gotten steadily worse under RR.

 

2010....110th in total defense

 

2009....82 in total defense

 

2008....69th in total defense

 

Throw in RR's offense vs good defenses this year and you get....

 

17 vs MSU

 

14 vs Miss St

 

7 vs Ohio St

 

So who knows? My guess is that Hoke will be a much better hire for them.

So whats your point? If they had a defense they would have been in those games. Look at our defense last year and how it kept us in the games. Every offense is going to get shut down. . .just like if you look at even our great defense the past 3 years there were times we got lit up still and we couldn't stop crap. It happens.

 

 

I know several MU fans and alum. Actually most of the money boosters wanted JH or to keep Rich Rod and get a new DC. They actually think getting Hoke is a huge failure. I think Hoke is a better coach than Miles but I'd take Rich Rod any day over him.

 

 

Well Duh.

 

The "point" is that HC RR's defense is outrageously horrible and was getting worse each year he's been there. You know.....RR was the "head coach". Are you with me?

 

You know, like Cally/Coz but with an even worse Coz?

 

Sure most wanted JH but unlike you most Michigan fans weren't thrilled with RR at all due to....

 

1. His 2008 3 - 9 season was the worst season in the history of Michigan football.

 

2. That same year was the first bowl-less season in 33 years.

 

3. Michigan's 38 point loss to Miss St was their worst bowl loss in the history of Michigan football.

 

4. RR compiled the worst winning pct (.405)than any couch in the history of Michigan football.

 

5. RR's 6 - 18 record vs the Big10.

 

lol! Hey, I completely agree it's your right to consider him a good/great coach. However, the numbers show he made NU's Callahan look like Knute Rockne.

[Husker Richard]

The key is to be good enough and far ahead enough to let the others play. We have not had that nor done that in a very long long time. You have to have backups that can play the game you want to play. It is not fair to have them set the bench year after year and then the starter graduates and he has no experience. It does seem we tried it a little this year with Green, but I think he only played because Martinez was hurt. Never a plan to get him on the field in crucial situations. Other than you are the best we have left, play.

 

I am not sure how well our O, or supposed O will work in the Big Ten. As far s Lamichael having a good year, he was pretty much shut down against the only defense he faced this year. That being Auburn.

 

I think we are in for an eye opening run. A very tough physical schedule this year. The question is more about depth I think than starters. You guys know alot more about that than I do. But that is my main concern, having the ability to shuffle players in and not have tremendous drop off.

You're right except for the fact that they played him a least on series a half in all those game before TM was hurt just like the coaches had stated they would from day one and often he was put in horrible situations when he was put in.

 

I think this offense works pretty good against the Big 10, Michigan had great success and if they would have had a defense they probably had a shot at winning the damn thing. I think we are extremely lucky Rich Rod got the ax and wasn't allowed to fix his D with a new DC. Hoke will be much easier to beat over the next 5-10 years if he lasts that long.

 

Wow....well, the overwhelming majority of Michigan fans on the internet are thrilled he's gone. I can hardly blame them as their defense is horrid beyong belief as has gotten steadily worse under RR.

 

2010....110th in total defense

 

2009....82 in total defense

 

2008....69th in total defense

 

Throw in RR's offense vs good defenses this year and you get....

 

17 vs MSU

 

14 vs Miss St

 

7 vs Ohio St

 

So who knows? My guess is that Hoke will be a much better hire for them.

So whats your point? If they had a defense they would have been in those games. Look at our defense last year and how it kept us in the games. Every offense is going to get shut down. . .just like if you look at even our great defense the past 3 years there were times we got lit up still and we couldn't stop crap. It happens.

 

 

I know several MU fans and alum. Actually most of the money boosters wanted JH or to keep Rich Rod and get a new DC. They actually think getting Hoke is a huge failure. I think Hoke is a better coach than Miles but I'd take Rich Rod any day over him.

 

 

Well Duh.

 

The "point" is that HC RR's defense is outrageously horrible and was getting worse each year he's been there. You know.....RR was the "head coach". Are you with me?

 

You know, like Cally/Coz but with an even worse Coz?

 

Sure most wanted JH but unlike you most Michigan fans weren't thrilled with RR at all due to....

 

1. His 2008 3 - 9 season was the worst season in the history of Michigan football.

 

2. That same year was the first bowl-less season in 33 years.

 

3. Michigan's 38 point loss to Miss St was their worst bowl loss in the history of Michigan football.

 

4. RR compiled the worst winning pct (.405)than any couch in the history of Michigan football.

 

5. RR's 6 - 18 record vs the Big10.

 

lol! Hey, I completely agree it's your right to consider him a good/great coach. However, the numbers show he made NU's Callahan look like Knute Rockne.

 

Don't forget that he was 0-6 vs. rivals OSU and Mich State.

[HeyBurke]

@knapplc

 

Yes, I will. I think most people who call Martinez a freshman do it because they think he is a true freshman and use that to defend him.

[knapplc]

Yes, I will. I think most people who call Martinez a freshman do it because they think he is a true freshman and use that to defend him.

 

That's not an unrealistic explanation. The guy was a WR on the scout team last year. In this offense, he's a true Freshman, whether he's a college Sophomore or not.

 

And so we're clear, I can't imagine ANYONE on this site still thinks Martinez is an actual factual Freshman. I think we all pretty well understand the concept of the redshirt around here.

[hack]

Who thought Taylor Martinez was NOT entrenched? People believe the most outlandish things sometimes.

 

Frankly, someone is going to have to beat him out for the starting job.

 

 

i think a lot of people thought TM starting was not a 100 percent...... i think Bo even said the QB comp. was open this year as well and taylor is gonna have to earn it again.... it could be just talk I guess but i still found it interesting

 

TM's not a lock. He could get injured (knock on wood) or somebody could step up and play out of their mind in the offseason and dethrone him. But he is the frontrunner, by far, and it's nuts to expect freshmen like Carnes, Starling, or Turner to win the job this season, which is what some people think is going to happen.

 

Agree. If somebody other than Martinez is walking out taking the first snaps against Tenn-Chatt, then we are in some serious trouble this season. Quite frankly it doesnt matter who the QB is, if our offense conitunes to produce like it has the past 2 years, we will be 8-4 at best. Its Martinez's job to lose as much as I hate to say that.

 

 

Of course I thought Zac Lee was gonna be our starter in 2010, no question about it.

 

I don't think we're in the midst of changing offenses this year, though. Zac Lee didn't lose his job because he's not a good QB, he lost his job because he's just not as good of a fit for the offensive system Nebraska is now running. He wasn't enough of a threat running the football for what the coaches want to do.

Of course we all didnt really know we were to this zone read stuff till about 3 days before the first game either this past year.

 

Really? That's what I thought we were doing... I wasn't on the board much until that point last year, but I remember thinking starting at the Holiday Bowl against Arizona that we were going to be moving towards a spread option game...

Yes after the holiday bowl, I think perception was we would see more of the wildcat, with Rex. Not nesscarily go full blown Oregon zone read style, with an uproven QB.

 

Oregon had an unproven QB this year the same age as Martinez and they didn't dial down anything. If that is the direction we are going, why not go full blown? Nebraska was so vanilla and predictable this year it wasn't even funny. If fans knew the play before hand, then then defense prob. knew the play before hand.

 

The thing that makes Oregons offense great (and I don't want to hear about how they did in the NC bc at least they made it to that game) is the fact that they go so fast! The no-huddle offense really wears down defenses. Auburns defense was huffing anf puffing after the end of the 1st quarter. Plus the fact that they run different sets and versions of the spread option like in the videos Blaze posted earlier. I enjoyed watching their offense in the NC game. They did not score many points, but they were able to move the ball fairly well. If this is the direction we are going, we need to go full out this year and not be so vanilla.

Oregon's Qb might have been unproven this year but I bet he played Qb on the scout team or with the top units to get him to know the playbook. Martinez last year was playing receiver on the scout team and was learning he offense this year along with everyone else.

 

stare into the multi quote... and you shall see E T E R N I T Y !

[Ziebol]

Faster offense means faster o-line. It's going to be interesting to see how the O-line can adapt to an even speedier offense than we tried implementing this year. That is going to be my biggest question going into the offseason if our offense is going in the direction, Will the o-line be able to be speedy and still pick up multiple blocks. IMHO that is equally as important as Taylor developing this offseason, and maybe even more important.

[Hujan]

That's fine, but we're going to have to be able to pass effectively. That means a QB who has pocket awareness, ability to read a defense and make adjustments accordingly, and we will HAVE TO put guys on the field who can catch the ball. Pass-catching ability has to be the first priority, run-blocking second. The concept that you won't see the field as a WR if you can't block has got to stop.

 

Pretty much agree, though I think that the passing game that seems to compliment most spread option attacks is a short passing game with lots of bootleg play actions and screens. How many screens did Auburn and Oregon combine for that game? Whether jailbreak or WR screens, it seemed like every pass was a screen play for quite awhile.

 

T-Mart is not a pocket passer and looks uncomfortable in the pocket. So why not have the passing game consist of three looks:

 

1) Screens (in which a pass rush is expected and is actually a good thing)

2) Bootlegs (which, by definition, involve the QB rolling out of the pocket)

3) Play action deep looks to either a streaking hot route receiver (e.g., Reed) or a check down to the RB (in which case, Martinez wouldn't be expected to work through progressions)

 

If Martinez can master those three looks, we will be far better off than last year, assuming we can maintain a strong option attack. If Martinez cannot master those looks despite 8 months of drilling them, then he is worse than useless as a QB. Personally, I think he can do it.

 

On the running side of things, I think we would do well to have more speed in the backfield. Burkhead is an ideal short yardage back. Give him the ball on third and short and he's going to get the first down. He is also a decent receiver out of the backfield (TD drop against Texas aside). And of course we've all seen what he can do running and throwing out of the Rexcat. But he lacks top-end speed.

 

I'd like to see us bring in some skinnier, faster guys to compliment Rex and Martinez. Our running plays should focus on:

 

1) Traditional zone read

2) QB draw

3) Zone read w/ a jet sweep as someone else posted above

4) Perhaps some diamond formation looks

5) Conventional, vanilla handoffs to setup the playaction

 

If we can simplify the passing game for Martinez, I actually think we can actually put some lipstick on the pig that is this offense.

[Hercules]

Don't think it's a matter of simplifying the passing game, but more just actually using the passing game that naturally compliments our running game. Spread option ground attack and west coast passing attack don't mesh.

[knapplc]

That's fine, but we're going to have to be able to pass effectively. That means a QB who has pocket awareness, ability to read a defense and make adjustments accordingly, and we will HAVE TO put guys on the field who can catch the ball. Pass-catching ability has to be the first priority, run-blocking second. The concept that you won't see the field as a WR if you can't block has got to stop.

 

Pretty much agree, though I think that the passing game that seems to compliment most spread option attacks is a short passing game with lots of bootleg play actions and screens. How many screens did Auburn and Oregon combine for that game? Whether jailbreak or WR screens, it seemed like every pass was a screen play for quite awhile.

 

T-Mart is not a pocket passer and looks uncomfortable in the pocket. So why not have the passing game consist of three looks:

 

1) Screens (in which a pass rush is expected and is actually a good thing)

2) Bootlegs (which, by definition, involve the QB rolling out of the pocket)

3) Play action deep looks to either a streaking hot route receiver (e.g., Reed) or a check down to the RB (in which case, Martinez wouldn't be expected to work through progressions)

 

If Martinez can master those three looks, we will be far better off than last year, assuming we can maintain a strong option attack. If Martinez cannot master those looks despite 8 months of drilling them, then he is worse than useless as a QB. Personally, I think he can do it.

 

On the running side of things, I think we would do well to have more speed in the backfield. Burkhead is an ideal short yardage back. Give him the ball on third and short and he's going to get the first down. He is also a decent receiver out of the backfield (TD drop against Texas aside). And of course we've all seen what he can do running and throwing out of the Rexcat. But he lacks top-end speed.

 

I'd like to see us bring in some skinnier, faster guys to compliment Rex and Martinez. Our running plays should focus on:

 

1) Traditional zone read

2) QB draw

3) Zone read w/ a jet sweep as someone else posted above

4) Perhaps some diamond formation looks

5) Conventional, vanilla handoffs to setup the playaction

 

If we can simplify the passing game for Martinez, I actually think we can actually put some lipstick on the pig that is this offense.

 

Agree! Good stuff, Hujan!

[roundegotrip]

Moving to a spread option offense makes all the sense in the world. You need have the ability to spread defenses out and keep them honest. If you can't do it vertically, then do it horizontally. They need to really, REALLY commit to this and not just run the zone read out of a different formation and hope for better results.

[mrmac429]

That's fine, but we're going to have to be able to pass effectively. That means a QB who has pocket awareness, ability to read a defense and make adjustments accordingly, and we will HAVE TO put guys on the field who can catch the ball. Pass-catching ability has to be the first priority, run-blocking second. The concept that you won't see the field as a WR if you can't block has got to stop.

 

Pretty much agree, though I think that the passing game that seems to compliment most spread option attacks is a short passing game with lots of bootleg play actions and screens. How many screens did Auburn and Oregon combine for that game? Whether jailbreak or WR screens, it seemed like every pass was a screen play for quite awhile.

 

T-Mart is not a pocket passer and looks uncomfortable in the pocket. So why not have the passing game consist of three looks:

 

1) Screens (in which a pass rush is expected and is actually a good thing)

2) Bootlegs (which, by definition, involve the QB rolling out of the pocket)

3) Play action deep looks to either a streaking hot route receiver (e.g., Reed) or a check down to the RB (in which case, Martinez wouldn't be expected to work through progressions)

 

If Martinez can master those three looks, we will be far better off than last year, assuming we can maintain a strong option attack. If Martinez cannot master those looks despite 8 months of drilling them, then he is worse than useless as a QB. Personally, I think he can do it.

 

On the running side of things, I think we would do well to have more speed in the backfield. Burkhead is an ideal short yardage back. Give him the ball on third and short and he's going to get the first down. He is also a decent receiver out of the backfield (TD drop against Texas aside). And of course we've all seen what he can do running and throwing out of the Rexcat. But he lacks top-end speed.

 

I'd like to see us bring in some skinnier, faster guys to compliment Rex and Martinez. Our running plays should focus on:

 

1) Traditional zone read

2) QB draw

3) Zone read w/ a jet sweep as someone else posted above

4) Perhaps some diamond formation looks

5) Conventional, vanilla handoffs to setup the playaction

 

If we can simplify the passing game for Martinez, I actually think we can actually put some lipstick on the pig that is this offense.

 

 

 

 

I like your thinking

[da skers]

Don't think it's a matter of simplifying the passing game, but more just actually using the passing game that naturally compliments our running game. Spread option ground attack and west coast passing attack don't mesh.

Exactly. Winner Winner Chicken Dinner. People don't realize the schemes and techniques required for the O-line are different for these two types of systems. Not to mention the type of body, physical requirements etc. are different was well. And we are extra lucky because we have a line coach who seems to not understand either one of them.

[da skers]

The key is to be good enough and far ahead enough to let the others play. We have not had that nor done that in a very long long time. You have to have backups that can play the game you want to play. It is not fair to have them set the bench year after year and then the starter graduates and he has no experience. It does seem we tried it a little this year with Green, but I think he only played because Martinez was hurt. Never a plan to get him on the field in crucial situations. Other than you are the best we have left, play.

 

I am not sure how well our O, or supposed O will work in the Big Ten. As far s Lamichael having a good year, he was pretty much shut down against the only defense he faced this year. That being Auburn.

 

I think we are in for an eye opening run. A very tough physical schedule this year. The question is more about depth I think than starters. You guys know alot more about that than I do. But that is my main concern, having the ability to shuffle players in and not have tremendous drop off.

You're right except for the fact that they played him a least on series a half in all those game before TM was hurt just like the coaches had stated they would from day one and often he was put in horrible situations when he was put in.

 

I think this offense works pretty good against the Big 10, Michigan had great success and if they would have had a defense they probably had a shot at winning the damn thing. I think we are extremely lucky Rich Rod got the ax and wasn't allowed to fix his D with a new DC. Hoke will be much easier to beat over the next 5-10 years if he lasts that long.

 

Wow....well, the overwhelming majority of Michigan fans on the internet are thrilled he's gone. I can hardly blame them as their defense is horrid beyong belief as has gotten steadily worse under RR.

 

2010....110th in total defense

 

2009....82 in total defense

 

2008....69th in total defense

 

Throw in RR's offense vs good defenses this year and you get....

 

17 vs MSU

 

14 vs Miss St

 

7 vs Ohio St

 

So who knows? My guess is that Hoke will be a much better hire for them.

So whats your point? If they had a defense they would have been in those games. Look at our defense last year and how it kept us in the games. Every offense is going to get shut down. . .just like if you look at even our great defense the past 3 years there were times we got lit up still and we couldn't stop crap. It happens.

 

 

I know several MU fans and alum. Actually most of the money boosters wanted JH or to keep Rich Rod and get a new DC. They actually think getting Hoke is a huge failure. I think Hoke is a better coach than Miles but I'd take Rich Rod any day over him.

 

 

Well Duh.

 

The "point" is that HC RR's defense is outrageously horrible and was getting worse each year he's been there. You know.....RR was the "head coach". Are you with me?

 

You know, like Cally/Coz but with an even worse Coz?

 

Sure most wanted JH but unlike you most Michigan fans weren't thrilled with RR at all due to....

 

1. His 2008 3 - 9 season was the worst season in the history of Michigan football.

 

2. That same year was the first bowl-less season in 33 years.

 

3. Michigan's 38 point loss to Miss St was their worst bowl loss in the history of Michigan football.

 

4. RR compiled the worst winning pct (.405)than any couch in the history of Michigan football.

 

5. RR's 6 - 18 record vs the Big10.

 

lol! Hey, I completely agree it's your right to consider him a good/great coach. However, the numbers show he made NU's Callahan look like Knute Rockne.

Fine in that instance Bo is horrible because the offense from year one to year two went to sh#t. And this year his defense went backwards. He sucks and shouldn't be a head coach because hes inconsistent at best. I can find a stat to prove just about any point. And if you look at Rich Rods entire career he's done a damn good job. (even if he is a bit of a slime ball)You have to look at circumstance and actually use your brain a bit too. I think anyone who's followed Michigan football over the last 3 years would see a very obvious reason for that decline in defense. Lose the number of defensive starters he does to graduation/transfer/injury and with a previous coach who recruited very little talent and that's what you get. There was zero depth and you don't win with an almost all freshman DB set up. I will bet donuts to dollars that the next place he lands he has them in the top 10 within 3 years. I don't think he was giving a very good opportunity at MU and he never had any support because everyone but Lloyd Car wanted Les Miles for the job. Hoke is kind of in the same situation but to a lesser degree since he had at least actually coached there before.

 

On a side note Hoke just made a hell of a hire in his DC.

 

I do think had Cali kept Bo or had a defense when he was here we have a completely different opinion of the guy. I think he was a disaster because he couldn't coach up a kid, but he did put together a hell of an offense. If both sides had equal attention and a guy leading the way who understood college ball we would have been a very scary team. Bo is at that cross roads now with the offense. Its not as drastic but he's facing his first real challenge.