Carr,Price,Smith > Martinez

[Hercules]

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

If you think Crouch would be as good with this offensive line, you're on harder drugs than the people who would take Martinez over Crouch. That's why it's impossible to say. It's definitely not "crazy," but maybe a little weird, to prefer Martinez. It's not weird at all to think he has the potential to be better.

 

 

The simple fact of the matter is neither one of them should be considered a QB anymore. Crouch is probably the most gifted athletic talent that has ever played QB at Nebraska. The unfortunate part, much like Taylor, is that their skill sets don't match that of a successful QB anymore.

 

Crouch would have been successful at any DB or offensive skill position. Taylor.....maybe.

 

The problem I have with that argument is that it's the same thing people said when Crouch was QB. And when Frost was QB. And when Frazier was QB. It's been proven wrong over and over again, which you'd think would make it invalid, yet people keep arguing it.

 

 

Your logic is flawed. You are assuming that the game doesn't change or evolve. Given your example, I really don't see why anyone isn't arguing that we start to look for a Jerry Tagge clone.

 

Where has it been proven wrong? Since Crouch won the Heisman, where has a purely running QB been successful. I would actually rather take step back because Miami absolutely destroyed the Huskers. Since Frost won the NC in 1997, where has a pure running (Run First - Sub par passing) QB been successful?

 

There may be an example, I just don't recall it. That's almost 15 years ago. So again, where has it been proven wrong?

 

So in your mind, a player has to win a national championship in order to be successful?

 

So, I guess Sam Bradford wasn't successful. Neither was Colt McCoy. Kellen Moore blows. Andrew Luck hasn't been successful either. Kirk Cousins is no good.

 

Derek Carr, Keith Price, and Brett Smith must REALLY suck, because they're not getting anywhere close to a national championship this year.

[schuhbdoo]

Because he consistently missed WIDE OPEN receivers and and, once again, fumbled the football. The OP nailed it. I said the exact same thing this evening. Taylor is nothing more than a slot WR playing QB....sad thing is, I'd guess most slot WRs have a better mechanics. Taylor is just such a bitter-sweet player. Anytime he touches the ball, he has a chance to take it the distance, but he is a horrid passer and just as bad decision maker.

 

I have a bad feeling that Taylor is going to get exposed for what he is next week...

 

How old are you? It's like you never watched - or understood what you were watching - when we were a run-first team in the 80s and 90s.

 

Martinez' skill set is nearly identical to the QBs we had for two decades, when we won nine games a year every year, and threw in about half a dozen shots at the national championship. Won a couple of those too, if you recall.

 

He's a college QB whose skills rest in his feet. This is not a new concept in college football.

 

True, but then we also had QB's who knew how to run the option properly and had the o-line to block for it. That hasn't really panned out so far this year as something you hang your hat on.

 

 

Why don't we have the QB from UTC (B J Coleman)listed as greater than Taylor too? It is pretty clear that every QB NU plays this year is probably a better passing QB than Taylor. At some point it is going to hurt NU when they need to pass to win and those balls all fall incomplete. Bo stated at the end of the game he is glad Taylor is his guy. He has unbelievable speed and can run but NU just doesn't have an accurate passing QB starting for this team right now. Let's see how this plays out against a top team next weekend. NU may need to score 35 to win and not sure if Taylor has the arm to get that done against top ten teams or even top 25 teams.

[The Dude]

Jesus, imagine if he wasn't our most dangerous offensive weapon.

[gobiggergoredder]

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

If you think Crouch would be as good with this offensive line, you're on harder drugs than the people who would take Martinez over Crouch. That's why it's impossible to say. It's definitely not "crazy," but maybe a little weird, to prefer Martinez. It's not weird at all to think he has the potential to be better.

 

 

The simple fact of the matter is neither one of them should be considered a QB anymore. Crouch is probably the most gifted athletic talent that has ever played QB at Nebraska. The unfortunate part, much like Taylor, is that their skill sets don't match that of a successful QB anymore.

 

Crouch would have been successful at any DB or offensive skill position. Taylor.....maybe.

 

The problem I have with that argument is that it's the same thing people said when Crouch was QB. And when Frost was QB. And when Frazier was QB. It's been proven wrong over and over again, which you'd think would make it invalid, yet people keep arguing it.

 

 

Your logic is flawed. You are assuming that the game doesn't change or evolve. Given your example, I really don't see why anyone isn't arguing that we start to look for a Jerry Tagge clone.

 

Where has it been proven wrong? Since Crouch won the Heisman, where has a purely running QB been successful. I would actually rather take step back because Miami absolutely destroyed the Huskers. Since Frost won the NC in 1997, where has a pure running (Run First - Sub par passing) QB been successful?

 

There may be an example, I just don't recall it. That's almost 15 years ago. So again, where has it been proven wrong?

 

So in your mind, a player has to win a national championship in order to be successful?

 

So, I guess Sam Bradford wasn't successful. Neither was Colt McCoy. Kellen Moore blows. Andrew Luck hasn't been successful either. Kirk Cousins is no good.

 

Derek Carr, Keith Price, and Brett Smith must REALLY suck, because they're not getting anywhere close to a national championship this year.

Bad play on my part because I knew you would take it there. Let me change it up for you.

 

Give me a QB that can run well and can't throw that has been successful in the last 5 years. I would say successful would be top 10, maybe top 15. Since this appears to be an acceptable recipe for success, you shouldnt have any trouble naming several.

 

I don't even know why I argue with you. Last year you called me out after three games when I said "Who cares when Will Compton comes back, LaVonte David should never leave the field".

[EZ-E]

Maybe I am in the complete minority here, but I truely do believe our offense and TMart have shown improvements in areas every week.

 

I also liked some of the new wrinkles we showed with Eric Martin playing almost like a LB/DL hybrid in behind our front 3 or 4.

[True2tRA]

I would even say Price is a better thrower than Martinez.

 

 

You act like it's hard to tell? The two aren't even close!

[The Dude]

Give me a QB that can run well and can't throw that has been successful in the last 5 years.

Are we really going to make any progress in these discussions if we keep throwing out strawmen arguments? He's not a great passer by any means, but is just saying he can't throw period anywhere close to accurate? No, no it's not.

[True2tRA]

Maybe I am in the complete minority here, but I truely do believe our offense and TMart have shown improvements in areas every week.

 

I also liked some of the new wrinkles we showed with Eric Martin playing almost like a LB/DL hybrid in behind our front 3 or 4.

I completely agree. The offense has definitely gotten better week to week. I'd say the Washington game was a huge step in the right direction.

[True2tRA]

Jesus, imagine if he wasn't our most dangerous offensive weapon.

He is dangerously offensive, I'll agree with that. Imagine if he could throw! Holy moly, man woman and child he would put em' in the aisles.

[NEBRASKANHEAT]

Maybe I am in the complete minority here, but I truely do believe our offense and TMart have shown improvements in areas every week.

 

I also liked some of the new wrinkles we showed with Eric Martin playing almost like a LB/DL hybrid in behind our front 3 or 4.

 

 

I don't think you are in the minority. Seems alot of people like what they've seen from Martinez this year. I don't know who is right, it just seems to me his shortcomings are going to really hurt us this year.

 

I just don't see his play translating against more athletic defenses.

 

While both sides like to claim to know who is right, only time will tell. I hope you're right.

[True2tRA]

Long story short. Martinez does a good job at QB.I hope we can do a lot better at the position in the future.

[Hercules]

Surely you can't be serious. You're telling me you'd take Taylor over Crouch? Quit the drugs.

If you think Crouch would be as good with this offensive line, you're on harder drugs than the people who would take Martinez over Crouch. That's why it's impossible to say. It's definitely not "crazy," but maybe a little weird, to prefer Martinez. It's not weird at all to think he has the potential to be better.

 

 

The simple fact of the matter is neither one of them should be considered a QB anymore. Crouch is probably the most gifted athletic talent that has ever played QB at Nebraska. The unfortunate part, much like Taylor, is that their skill sets don't match that of a successful QB anymore.

 

Crouch would have been successful at any DB or offensive skill position. Taylor.....maybe.

 

The problem I have with that argument is that it's the same thing people said when Crouch was QB. And when Frost was QB. And when Frazier was QB. It's been proven wrong over and over again, which you'd think would make it invalid, yet people keep arguing it.

 

 

Your logic is flawed. You are assuming that the game doesn't change or evolve. Given your example, I really don't see why anyone isn't arguing that we start to look for a Jerry Tagge clone.

 

Where has it been proven wrong? Since Crouch won the Heisman, where has a purely running QB been successful. I would actually rather take step back because Miami absolutely destroyed the Huskers. Since Frost won the NC in 1997, where has a pure running (Run First - Sub par passing) QB been successful?

 

There may be an example, I just don't recall it. That's almost 15 years ago. So again, where has it been proven wrong?

 

So in your mind, a player has to win a national championship in order to be successful?

 

So, I guess Sam Bradford wasn't successful. Neither was Colt McCoy. Kellen Moore blows. Andrew Luck hasn't been successful either. Kirk Cousins is no good.

 

Derek Carr, Keith Price, and Brett Smith must REALLY suck, because they're not getting anywhere close to a national championship this year.

Bad play on my part because I knew you would take it there. Let me change it up for you.

 

Give me a QB that can run well and can't throw that has been successful in the last 5 years. I would say successful would be top 10, maybe top 15. Since this appears to be an acceptable recipe for success, you shouldnt have any trouble naming several.

 

I don't even know why I argue with you. Last year you called me out after three games when I said "Who cares when Will Compton comes back, LaVonte David should never leave the field".

 

I don't remember the Compton/David argument, but clearly I was wrong, seeing as how Compton hasn't been a starter or anything since he came back from that injury... If I argued that David should be off the field, obviously I was wrong there, but I don't remember.

 

As far as other QBs in the past 5 years, the part that I don't buy is the notion that Taylor is much worse than some of the other dual-threat QBs. Martinez is basically on par with Darron Thomas in my honest opinion, so there's one top 15 team. I think he's on par with Denard Robinson, but by your top 10-15 standard, he doesn't meet your requirement of what it is to be a successful QB.

 

More than anything else, I take issue with your definition of what a successful QB is. Your definition of QB success is directly opposed to the original point of this thread, which says that the QBs we've faced this year are all better than Martinez. By your definition of QB success (winning), Martinez is a better QB than any of those guys.

 

By your definition of sucess, Martinez could lead Nebraska to 30 points in every game the rest of the season, but if 4 of our opponents manage to score 31, Martinez would then become a failure as a QB.

 

 

 

All I can say right now is that Martinez has been a successful QB so far this year. I think that anyone who argues against that is focusing too much on the mistakes he makes without giving him credit for the great plays that he makes. I'm still waiting to see what Martinez does against a top ten team like Wisconsin (and I'll reiterate that I don't think we're ready on offense or defense as an entire team to play Wisconsin) to get a real feel for where he is right now, but even if he struggles against a top 10 team, I'm not going to rush to the conclusion that he can never win a big game, like others on this board surely will.

 

Furthermore, I think that anybody who simply looks at the other QBs we've played and jumps to the conclusion that they'd be better for us than Martinez is over-simplifying the game. Sure, Keith Price might have completed that pass to Jamal Turner over the middle yesterday. But Jamal Turner might not have even been open with Keith Price at QB, because he's not a threat to tuck the ball and take it to the end zone like Martinez is. If Martinez does improve a bit more, and becomes even a little more accurate (which is within the realm of possibility, seeing as how he's a sophomore), then our offense becomes impossible to defend. Right now, the only way to stop our offense is to sell out on the run and hope that Martinez misses a wide open receiver.

[gobiggergoredder]

Give me a QB that can run well and can't throw that has been successful in the last 5 years.

Are we really going to make any progress in these discussions if we keep throwing out strawmen arguments? He's not a great passer by any means, but is just saying he can't throw period anywhere close to accurate? No, no it's not.

 

It's not...I agree. He is however, below average in my opinion.

[BigBL87]

Of the guys you mentioned, the only one with markedly better stats passing is Ganz. Ganz was a pocket passer who SUCKED running the ball. Ganz ran a very different offense and was a VERY different kind of QB.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say Ganz SUCKED running the ball. Ganz had the wheels to keep teams honest, but would admittedly never be the center of an option based running attack. Back when he was recruited, he was seen as a "passer that could run" as opposed to Taylor who is a "runner who can (kind of) pass." Zac Taylor, on the other hand, was someone who I would say sucked running the ball.

[bshirt]

Yeah, we have seen this before. I think Martinez and the RBs will have a tough time running the ball against Wisconsin (believe it or not the toss sweeps aren't going to work all the time). And if we struggle with the run game, I just don't see Martinez putting the team on his back and winning the game through the air. He's just not good enough at throwing the ball and his 50% completion rate proves this. Yeah, receivers have dropped some, but at the same time it's the QBs job to get the ball to the receiver where it is easiest for them to catch it. Not at their feet. Not soaring above their head. Not behind them. All three of these he frequently does and then the receivers get blamed for the drop. And again, I will stress, there have been instances where WRs just dropped the ball, but lately, I have been noticing one of the three above scenarios happening. A perfect example was last week when a wide open Kyler Reed had to climb the ladder to pull down a throw that probably would have been picked off if it had not been snagged down.

 

So, we shall see how this offense does against a real defense. I have a feeling there will be a melt down one week from now as the Huskers struggle to get anything going offensively. But I'm sure Taylor just won't do good because he's a sophomore...or like last year it was because he was a freshman. Maybe next year it will be because he's a junior. I would be thrilled if Taylor goes out there the next two games and proves me wrong, but I'm a huge skeptic of his and I just don't see it happening. Like someone else has stated, I have seen this story before and no one will like the ending.

 

 

Whine, sob, moan......why don't you just go root for another team Debbie Downer?