New Triple Option formation

[Hercules]

Didn't Osborne use this as well? Wasn't it the "double wing set"? The diamond is just set up deeper in the backfield. We used to use the double wing alot with Shevin Wiggins.

 

Yeah, the diamond formation isn't anything new. Osborne used the double wing set - which was basically the same thing - with Shevin Wiggins and Bobby Newcombe - it was lethal. It wasn't anything new even then - pretty similar to the flexbone.

[ZRod]

Looking at the above photos of the diamond formation made me think....

 

Is there anyway we could run the read with Taylor and either Green/Abdullah and if Taylor keeps run an option play in the other direction with Burkhead?

In theory that's a cool idea, but in reality I don't know if the time to do this would be available against better defenses. The fake to one of the running backs would have to be as quick as a triple option fake to the full back, and then you'd immediately have to run the option with Burkhead otherwise you'd risk being blown up in the back field. Taking the time to do a full zone read and then go with the option would be a long time.

I think we will probably see this wrinkle. The first option in the triple option is a read similar to the zone read if I'm not mistaken, but as you said you don't have as much time to sit on the ball and make the defender commit. It'd be similar to what is run out of the gun or pistol having the wideout come in motion for the sprint out option with the RB being your first option.

[Saunders]

Looking at the above photos of the diamond formation made me think....

 

Is there anyway we could run the read with Taylor and either Green/Abdullah and if Taylor keeps run an option play in the other direction with Burkhead?

In theory that's a cool idea, but in reality I don't know if the time to do this would be available against better defenses. The fake to one of the running backs would have to be as quick as a triple option fake to the full back, and then you'd immediately have to run the option with Burkhead otherwise you'd risk being blown up in the back field. Taking the time to do a full zone read and then go with the option would be a long time.

I think we will probably see this wrinkle. The first option in the triple option is a read similar to the zone read if I'm not mistaken, but as you said you don't have as much time to sit on the ball and make the defender commit. It'd be similar to what is run out of the gun or pistol having the wideout come in motion for the sprint out option with the RB being your first option.

 

There is a triple option read out of this formation.

[Saunders]

Didn't Osborne use this as well? Wasn't it the "double wing set"? The diamond is just set up deeper in the backfield. We used to use the double wing alot with Shevin Wiggins.

 

Yeah, the diamond formation isn't anything new. Osborne used the double wing set - which was basically the same thing - with Shevin Wiggins and Bobby Newcombe - it was lethal. It wasn't anything new even then - pretty similar to the flexbone.

The difference is, this is farther back from the LOS, and gives you the ability for a downhill power running game with a FB.

[Saunders]

Here's some cool stuff on the diamond formation. I

really

like this, and what we can do with it.

 

http://smartfootball.com/offense/the-diamond-formation-and-other-multi-back-pistol-sets

 

http://offensivebreakdown.blogspot.com/2011/01/diamond-formation-oklahoma-sooners.html

[knapplc]

That formation killed tOSU defense it put them on their heels. Why Beck hasn't tried initiating earlier blows my mind, but its gonna be very hard to stop.

 

We must have been saving it for an important game. We're keeping the offense vanilla for... Minnesota. That's the ticket.

[Enhance]

Looking at the above photos of the diamond formation made me think....

 

Is there anyway we could run the read with Taylor and either Green/Abdullah and if Taylor keeps run an option play in the other direction with Burkhead?

In theory that's a cool idea, but in reality I don't know if the time to do this would be available against better defenses. The fake to one of the running backs would have to be as quick as a triple option fake to the full back, and then you'd immediately have to run the option with Burkhead otherwise you'd risk being blown up in the back field. Taking the time to do a full zone read and then go with the option would be a long time.

This was my thought too but I wasn't sure. Figured someone here would be able to help me since I have very little background in football schemes.

The other issue is blocking. Now I'm not saying it couldn't work, but you'd definitely have to run the zone read to the same side you run the option, because trying to go back the other way would mean you have little blocking. Even if you pull linemen, it'd be a cluster-you-know-what on the LOS.

[wiuhusker]

Looking at the above photos of the diamond formation made me think....

 

Is there anyway we could run the read with Taylor and either Green/Abdullah and if Taylor keeps run an option play in the other direction with Burkhead?

In theory that's a cool idea, but in reality I don't know if the time to do this would be available against better defenses. The fake to one of the running backs would have to be as quick as a triple option fake to the full back, and then you'd immediately have to run the option with Burkhead otherwise you'd risk being blown up in the back field. Taking the time to do a full zone read and then go with the option would be a long time.

This was my thought too but I wasn't sure. Figured someone here would be able to help me since I have very little background in football schemes.

The other issue is blocking. Now I'm not saying it couldn't work, but you'd definitely have to run the zone read to the same side you run the option, because trying to go back the other way would mean you have little blocking. Even if you pull linemen, it'd be a cluster-you-know-what on the LOS.

This was also somehting I had thought about but wasn't quite sure on how it would work exactly. If we have to pull lineman in order to run the opposite way of the read that would be a nightmare of confusion

[Hammerhead]

This formation does not seem that hard to defend and is probably the reason they run it more when the defense is tired. Pre snap it is confusing and the defender would need to realize how many possible outcomes. However once the ball is snapped they just have to find the direction, once that is determined it becomes only an option between hand off or keep. Realitstically only the QB or one RB could get the ball. In this case as soon as the ball is snapped Abdullah is no longer an option for a run play. The lb can leave him for a safety. If it is not a quick pitch to Burkhead he is out of the play, if it would be a quick pitch the numbers favor the defense (although I could see Burkhead throwing out of this formation). So the option is only keep or give to Green. On this play Yoshi was down field quick so the pass option was eliminated. The D end needed to step up and take on Long, and disrupts the play. A fresh defense flowing to the ball shuts this down, a tired defense craps themselves and watches the the play develop. By that time the wall and numbers are set and the offense wins. Beck used it perfect on Saturday. Overall it was just phone to see some option football. It truly is the best football to watch when it works, and is the reason I am a Husker fan.

 

There are other options after the snap. If your linemen stay close to the LoS, passing is an option. You could have either two options for a screen to the opposite side of the field, or set up a one-man screen with the other RB out in front blocking. If they bite on the play moving to one side of the field, the other side should have enough space to get at least a first down if the play develops quickly enough.

[Saunders]

The triple option play run out of the diamond is just a glorified ZR play with the play side RB or FB blocking while the QB reads the backside DE. After the initial read, the qb then has runs a true pitch option and either keeps or pitches.

 

Edit: Here we go. A terrible PS job, but it works.

 

[wiuhusker]

The triple option play run out of the diamond is just a glorified ZR play with the play side RB or FB blocking while the QB reads the backside DE. After the initial read, the qb then has runs a true pitch option and either keeps or pitches.

 

Edit: Here we go. A terrible PS job, but it works.

 

This is the play i was referring to above. Thanks for posting this image definitely makes it easier to understand for me. Going back to the point Enhance brought up would there be enough time to run something like this?

[ZRod]

The triple option play run out of the diamond is just a glorified ZR play with the play side RB or FB blocking while the QB reads the backside DE. After the initial read, the qb then has runs a true pitch option and either keeps or pitches.

 

Edit: Here we go. A terrible PS job, but it works.

 

This is the play i was referring to above. Thanks for posting this image definitely makes it easier to understand for me. Going back to the point Enhance brought up would there be enough time to run something like this?

I think you're really too focused on the time aspect. It's not like he's going to sit there for a couple seconds to make a decision on the hand off, It's read the key and make a decision. We ran a zone read triple option out of the shotgun last year and it's a pretty quick play. So yes there should be plenty of time. Just like any play the line has to get their blocks for the play to develop but it should be a pretty bang bang quick hitting play.

[Saunders]

The triple option play run out of the diamond is just a glorified ZR play with the play side RB or FB blocking while the QB reads the backside DE. After the initial read, the qb then has runs a true pitch option and either keeps or pitches.

 

Edit: Here we go. A terrible PS job, but it works.

 

This is the play i was referring to above. Thanks for posting this image definitely makes it easier to understand for me. Going back to the point Enhance brought up would there be enough time to run something like this?

I think you're really too focused on the time aspect. It's not like he's going to sit there for a couple seconds to make a decision on the hand off, It's read the key and make a decision. We ran a zone read triple option out of the shotgun last year and it's a pretty quick play. So yes there should be plenty of time. Just like any play the line has to get their blocks for the play to develop but it should be a pretty bang bang quick hitting play.

Correct. I've seen Nevada and WVU use this. It works.

[ZRod]

Just for reference, I know it's not the pistol or Diamond/full house but as has been mention these are basically hybrids of wing T formations like the Navy, Georgia Tech have ran. If I can find one out of the Diamond formation I'll put it up for you.

 

*EDIT so there's no triple option in this video but with what Oklahoma has run you can see if you just change the path of one of the backs you now create a pitch man. The only handicap they really have with the Diamond is that Jones isn't much of a run threat. If you pause the first play at about 14 seconds you can see if you take the deep back and have him move to his left instead of blocking right that's your pitch man. Obviously you have to change the blocking up front but that shouldn't be a huge issue.

[CFHusker]

This formation does not seem that hard to defend and is probably the reason they run it more when the defense is tired. Pre snap it is confusing and the defender would need to realize how many possible outcomes. However once the ball is snapped they just have to find the direction, once that is determined it becomes only an option between hand off or keep. Realitstically only the QB or one RB could get the ball. In this case as soon as the ball is snapped Abdullah is no longer an option for a run play. The lb can leave him for a safety. If it is not a quick pitch to Burkhead he is out of the play, if it would be a quick pitch the numbers favor the defense (although I could see Burkhead throwing out of this formation). So the option is only keep or give to Green. On this play Yoshi was down field quick so the pass option was eliminated. The D end needed to step up and take on Long, and disrupts the play. A fresh defense flowing to the ball shuts this down, a tired defense craps themselves and watches the the play develop. By that time the wall and numbers are set and the offense wins. Beck used it perfect on Saturday. Overall it was just phone to see some option football. It truly is the best football to watch when it works, and is the reason I am a Husker fan.

 

There are other options after the snap. If your linemen stay close to the LoS, passing is an option. You could have either two options for a screen to the opposite side of the field, or set up a one-man screen with the other RB out in front blocking. If they bite on the play moving to one side of the field, the other side should have enough space to get at least a first down if the play develops quickly enough.

 

I think the pass play will be off a toss to Burkhead with the option to run or pass. If the corner comes up to attack the run, TD. Interesting thought on the screens. Screens take time to set up. Options leave one defender free and forced to choose an option. I would think the D end would blow up a screen. I will have to ponder that some more.