The Religious Discussion of 2012

[Enhance]

Over 2500 years ago, the entire Greek world believed the Earth was controlled my Gods and Goddesses, and almost nobody believes in that anymore. 2000 years from now, people may view Christianity/Buddhism/Islam as stupid and have some other form of belief system in place. Who are any of us to claim religious superiority?

 

The reason the religion went away is because they had nothing concrete to reinforce their beliefs. I like Greek mythology a lot, but it's just that: a myth.

 

The difference with Christianity is that God sent his only son to Earth to do 2 things:

1) reinforce faith in Him

2) to take away our sins so that we could have eternal life, as long as we believe in Jesus Christ

 

Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you. I hope you believe in your heart that Jesus gave us the ultimate gift, but if not, there is nothing that I can do about it.

That isn't even remotely true. Greek religion died out after hundreds of years of violence and desecration - a lot of which came by the hands of Christianity. Religions today have no more claim than Greeks did.

 

If you believe Jesus Christ was God's son, that's fine. But that's a belief, and something that can't be substantiated by fact and can certainly not be called an inherent truth. It's something you feel and believe - again, that is fine.

 

My sole point, and my only point, is that you're insinuating religious superiority over a belief system that has been around less time than Judaism. Millions of Jews across the world believe Christ was a messenger - not God's son. Who are you, or anybody, to tell them they're wrong?

 

Believe what you want - but don't go onto a medium and claim your religion has more proof than others, when I say again, there are hundreds of millions of people that disagree with you.

[Ratt Mhule]

In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..."

 

Awesome!

[krill]

That isn't even remotely true. Greek religion died out after hundreds of years of violence and desecration - a lot of which came by the hands of Christianity. Religions today have no more claim than Greeks did.

 

 

Whoa, what?

 

Greek paganism and philosophy merged into the Roman world and never died per se. Yes, there was a definitive point at which Christianity became the official religion of the Roman empire, but I don't think most people understand that this was mostly for convenience purposes or that paganism and Christianity were on a muddied parallel in society for some centuries, with early Christian theologians drawing heavily from Greek thought (e.g. Augustine's City of God). It wasn't really until the mid / late 5th century, when the western Roman empire completed succumbed to invasion from Germanic tribesman that traditional paganism was more or less necessarily snuffed out.

[Enhance]

I'm still not sure what some people would consider proof. The proof is around you each and every day. As far as proof about Jesus, I don't know what you want. A YouTube video showing him walking on water?

 

I'll be quite honest, I read the Bible and believe in its words, but there is a great deal of the Bible that is missing from its original version. Certain books were removed from the Bible over time by denominations so that the book's words would fit their denomination better, and they could use the Bible to manipulate people. You have no idea how much I would love to know what was really in the entirety of the original Bible. I've heard stories, and some of the things in it may be what people are looking for in terms of "proof" or answers.

 

There were a couple of times when I have questioned the existence or intent of God. Once was four years ago when my cousin--who was also my best friend at the time-- died of leukemia. The other was about a year and a half ago after I had an ugly breakup with my girlfriend at that time. I won't get into specifics, but those things really changed my outlook on life. I realized that God is the only real thing in this world, and once I did, things just began to look up. I realized that God has a plan greater than you can even imagine.

 

I hope you guys find the answers you're looking for. Instead of looking at the Bible as proof of God's existence--since most of you seem to be skeptical of the Bible--just look at the things around you. None of it would have been possible without a "higher power" at work. That higher power is God, and He loves each and every one of us more than you can imagine. The least you can do to repay Him for His love is to believe in Him and to live your life according to His words. Dedicate your life to serving Him, and forget about worldly worries and doubts.

I'm sorry for your hard times, but the rest of your post - for the most part - is just blather.

 

I'm not requiring proof of anything, or asking you to prove why you believe something. Do whatever feels right for you. Seriously - do it. But do not, and I say again, do not claim your faiths/beliefs/understandings of something are "proof" that Christianity has more basis in this world than any other religion. The bible is a gumbo of stories, many of which are fictitious in manner only to suggest a moral following. You were the person who brought proof into this conversation, when I certainly didn't ask for it.

 

No amount of addition or subtraction could make me take the Bible for anything more than it is - a moral storybook. Adding a story of Christ turning another river/body of water into wine isn't going to be the catalyst provoking me to believe Jesus Christ was the son of God.

 

I 100% support your belief system - honestly. You need to be respectful of people who don't take what you say as faith, however.

[Roark]

Can anyone tell me what year we are in right now? Since I don't want to wait for a reply to get my point across, I'll just get on with it. If this reasoning works for you, then great. If not, then oh well.

 

We are in the year 2012.. AD. Which means Anno Domini, translated as "Year of our Lord" referring to the birth of Christ. Anytime before that was BC. Before Christ. If there was no Jesus Christ, why would people in the world number the years based upon when He was born? They wouldn't. The life and death of Christ was spelled out in the Bible, and though it has been revised and tampered with over time, the basic messages within it still exist.

 

 

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

 

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=A.D.

 

The term A.D. came about because the Byzantines, who were in power during the Early Middle Ages, happened to be Christians. And they did some fantastic things in the name of Christianity... Mainly in the form of holy wars.

[Sub-Husker]

... with early Christian theologians drawing heavily from Greek thought (e.g. Augustine's City of God). It wasn't really until the mid / late 5th century...

 

No one person did more damage to Christianity than Saint Augustine, not even Paul of Tarses warped Jesus' message that severely.

[Hoosker]

I enjoy being skeptical.

 

I believe that's the only way to look at life.

 

Being doubtful is being humble.

[HuskerShark]

Can anyone tell me what year we are in right now? Since I don't want to wait for a reply to get my point across, I'll just get on with it. If this reasoning works for you, then great. If not, then oh well.

 

We are in the year 2012.. AD. Which means Anno Domini, translated as "Year of our Lord" referring to the birth of Christ. Anytime before that was BC. Before Christ. If there was no Jesus Christ, why would people in the world number the years based upon when He was born? They wouldn't. The life and death of Christ was spelled out in the Bible, and though it has been revised and tampered with over time, the basic messages within it still exist.

 

 

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

 

http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=A.D.

 

The term A.D. came about because the Byzantines, who were in power during the Early Middle Ages, happened to be Christians. And they did some fantastic things in the name of Christianity... Mainly in the form of holy wars.

Edit:

 

Let's give this another try. Here's something that I ran across that is more along the lines of what most of you would consider "concrete proof." Accounts from real people, some of which were skeptical of Christianity as a whole, who lived during the time of Jesus acknowledge the existence of Jesus, His greatness, the fact that the world went dark after His crucifiction, just as the Bible says. Take a read:

 

Is there any historical proof that Jesus existed?

 

The ancient historical record provides examples of writers, philosophers and historians who lived during or not long after the time Jesus is believed to have lived and who testify to the fact that he was a real person. We will look at what some of these people have said.

Cornelius Tacitus

 

Tacitus lived from A.D. 55 to A.D. 120. He was a Roman historian and has been described as the greatest historian of Rome, noted for his integrity and moral uprightness. His most famous works are the Annals and the Histories. The Annals relate the historical narrative from Augustus’ death in A.D.14 to Nero’s death in A.D. 68. The Histories begin their narrative after Nero’s death and finish with Domitian’s death in A.D. 96. In his section describing Nero’s decision to blame the fire of Rome on the Christians, Tacitus affirms that the founder of Christianity, a man he calls Chrestus (a common misspelling of Christ, which was Jesus’ surname), was executed by Pilate, the procurator of Judea during the reign of the Roman emperor Tiberias. Tacitus was hostile to Christianity because in the same paragraph he describes Christus’ or Christ’s death, he describes Christianity as a pernicious superstition. It would have therefore been in his interests to declare that Jesus had never existed, but he did not, and perhaps he did not because he could not without betraying the historical record.

Lucian of Samosata

 

Lucian was a Greek satirist of the latter half of the second century. He therefore lived within two hundred years of Jesus. Lucian was hostile to Christianity and openly mocked it. He particularly objected to the fact that Christians worshipped a man. He does not mention Jesus’ name, but the reference to the man Christians worship is a reference to Jesus.

Suetonius

 

Suetonius was a Roman historian and a court official in Emperor Hadrian’s government. In his Life of Claudius he refers to Claudius expelling Jews from Rome on account of their activities on behalf of a man Suetonius calls Chrestus [another misspelling of Christus or Christ].

Pliny the Younger

 

Pliny was the Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor (AD. 112). He was responsible for executing Christians for not worshipping or bowing down to a statue of the emperor Trajan. In a letter to the emperor Trajan, he describes how the people on trial for being Christians would describe how they sang songs to Christ because he was a god.

Thallus and Phlegon

 

Both were ancient historians and both confirmed the fact that the land went dark when Jesus was crucified. This parallels what the Bible said happened when Jesus died.

Mara Bar-Serapion

 

Some time after 70 A.D., Mara Bar-Sarapion, who was probably a Stoic philosopher, wrote a letter to his son in which he describes how the Jews executed their King. Claiming to be a king was one of the charges the religious authorities used to scare Pontius Pilate into agreeing to execute Jesus.

Josephus

 

Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born in either 37 or 38 AD and died some time after 100 AD. He wrote the Jewish Antiquites and in one famous passage described Jesus as a wise man, a doer of wonderful works and calls him the Christ. He also affirmed that Jesus was executed by Pilate and actually rose from the dead!

The four Gospels

 

The four Gospels are the four accounts of Jesus’ life, which are contained in the New Testament part of the Bible. Historians will tell you that the closer an historical document is written to the time of the events it describes, the generally more reliable it is as a source of information about those events. Matthew’s Gospel account of Jesus’ life is now reckoned to have been written sometime between AD 70 and AD 80. Mark’s Gospel is dated between AD. 50 and AD. 65. Luke’s Gospel is dated in the early AD 60s and John’s Gospel sometime between AD 80 and 100. If Jesus died sometime in the AD 30s, it is clear that Mark, Luke and Matthew wrote their Gospels within living memory of Jesus’ death. John’s Gospel comes later and probably outside of living memory for most as John lived to an unusually old age for the ancient period, but the accuracy of his Gospel was verified no doubt by those who read the earlier Gospels.

Another feature of the Gospels is that they were written by men who either knew Jesus personally, or who knew people who themselves knew Jesus personally. Matthew was a former tax collector who became a disciple of Jesus. Mark was a close associate of Simon Peter, who is regarded as being Jesus’ most prominent disciple whilst Jesus was on the earth. Luke was a close associate of Paul who is the most famous of Christian missionaries and who wrote the largest contribution to the New Testament. Paul, in turn, was a close colleague of Simon Peter. John was the former fisherman who became the closest disciple of Jesus. The accounts of such men need to be considered at least seriously!

 

Link: http://www.sowhataboutjesus.com/existed.php

[Ratt Mhule]

I enjoy being skeptical.

 

I believe that's the only way to look at life.

 

Being doubtful is being humble.

 

Any Christian who tells you that they have never doubted the existence of God is most likely lying. I will be the first to tell you that I have doubted before and it probably won't be the last time. Doesn't last long, but it happens

[Hoosker]

I enjoy being skeptical.

 

I believe that's the only way to look at life.

 

Being doubtful is being humble.

 

Any Christian who tells you that they have never doubted the existence of God is most likely lying. I will be the first to tell you that I have doubted before and it probably won't be the last time. Doesn't last long, but it happens

 

Well of course everyone will have doubted the existence of God at some point in their life. They aren't born believers or anything. It's taught to many at a young age and so that's all they know, so that's what they believe.

 

It's comprable to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. It's a fun little story for kids to indulge themselves in for a number of years until they are eventually given a proper perspective on the whole thing.

[HuskerShark]

there is absolutely NO PROOF (and I underlined, italicized, and bolded it so you get the message) that God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit (you know, the Trinity) is/was a physical being.

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4223639/k.567/Ancient_Evidence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm

[huskerjack23]

If you believe that as proof, does it prove that he was the son of god that could perform miracles, walk on water, rise from the dead?

 

Even the proof of supernatural ability doesn't necessarily prove the existence of god.

[Enhance]

I don't think Jesus Christ was fake - I believe the person actually existed. As for him being the son of God, a being with supernatural powers, etc., I draw the line.

[HuskerShark]

If you believe that as proof, does it prove that he was the son of god that could perform miracles, walk on water, rise from the dead?

 

Even the proof of supernatural ability doesn't necessarily prove the existence of god.

I don't think Jesus Christ was fake - I believe the person actually existed. As for him being the son of God, a being with supernatural powers, etc., I draw the line.

 

Believe what you want to believe. We will all find out sooner or later.

[huskerjack23]

If you believe that as proof, does it prove that he was the son of god that could perform miracles, walk on water, rise from the dead?

 

Even the proof of supernatural ability doesn't necessarily prove the existence of god.

I don't think Jesus Christ was fake - I believe the person actually existed. As for him being the son of God, a being with supernatural powers, etc., I draw the line.

 

Believe what you want to believe. We will all find out sooner or later.

Why be involved in this discussion if you act like that?

 

"Oh, it'll all come to pass..." Many generations have lived, died, and killed others over this...we are waiting with baited breath.