sd'sker Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I don't think that you can adequately "get" science and mathematics without first understanding how to think critically. No one can really be surprised that Texas Republicans oppose critical thinking. Libertarians, republicans and religious nuts would be out of work if too many people actually start to question things and examine the nonsense they're asked to believe. Oh, I understood and learned all about biology, botany, algebra, calculus, and trig without having "critical thinking" mentioned once in those classrooms. Believe things like these? "The private sector is just fine" "You didn't build it." Hopefully there's going to be a guy out of his current job on 20 January because of this kind of nonsense he's been spouting. so only when you were explicitly told you were learning critical thinking skills, you were learning critical thinking skills? Link to comment
Yossarian Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Oh, I understood and learned all about biology, botany, algebra, calculus, and trig without having "critical thinking" mentioned once in those classrooms. Believe things like these? "The private sector is just fine" "You didn't build it." Hopefully there's going to be a guy out of his current job on 20 January because of this kind of nonsense he's been spouting. I suppose you expect an argument, but you won't get one from me, although I do disagree with your last sentence since I see Obama as the better of two bad options (precisely the way I felt with every vote I've cast for the last 25 years). As for the other bits, blindly believing whatever is said by any politician in general, or American politicians in particular is foolish. That blind acceptance is what both politically parties and every religion in the world rely on. Edit to add a response to your edited addition: A student may very well memorize all of the concepts and be able to recall them for exams. Rote recall isn't the same as truly understanding a subject, though. That's why I made the distinction of being able to "get" a subject. You make rote recall sound like a crime of some sort. Next time you see your doctor, ask him about medical school and the method they use. As for "getting" a subject, I "got" calculus by memorizing the rules (as you do in most math courses). There's not a lot of room for self expression. Like my instructor told me, "Taking this course will do nothing except make you a better person." Plus, it filled a math requirement. Link to comment
Yossarian Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I don't think that you can adequately "get" science and mathematics without first understanding how to think critically. No one can really be surprised that Texas Republicans oppose critical thinking. Libertarians, republicans and religious nuts would be out of work if too many people actually start to question things and examine the nonsense they're asked to believe. Oh, I understood and learned all about biology, botany, algebra, calculus, and trig without having "critical thinking" mentioned once in those classrooms. Believe things like these? "The private sector is just fine" "You didn't build it." Hopefully there's going to be a guy out of his current job on 20 January because of this kind of nonsense he's been spouting. so only when you were explicitly told you were learning critical thinking skills, you were learning critical thinking skills? When I was told I was learning math, I was learning math. Again, all of this is good only if a person leaves school with acquired knowledge that helps them do more than just be sensitive and open-minded. Plus, it's good if he or she knows the difference between "your" and "you're." It makes them appear to be less imbecilic. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Oh, I understood and learned all about biology, botany, algebra, calculus, and trig without having "critical thinking" mentioned once in those classrooms. Believe things like these? "The private sector is just fine" "You didn't build it." Hopefully there's going to be a guy out of his current job on 20 January because of this kind of nonsense he's been spouting. I suppose you expect an argument, but you won't get one from me, although I do disagree with your last sentence since I see Obama as the better of two bad options (precisely the way I felt with every vote I've cast for the last 25 years). As for the other bits, blindly believing whatever is said by any politician in general, or American politicians in particular is foolish. That blind acceptance is what both politically parties and every religion in the world rely on. Edit to add a response to your edited addition: A student may very well memorize all of the concepts and be able to recall them for exams. Rote recall isn't the same as truly understanding a subject, though. That's why I made the distinction of being able to "get" a subject. You make rote recall sound like a crime of some sort. Next time you see your doctor, ask him about medical school and the method they use. As for "getting" a subject, I "got" calculus by memorizing the rules (as you do in most math courses). There's not a lot of room for self expression. Like my instructor told me, "Taking this course will do nothing except make you a better person." Plus, it filled a math requirement. they learn and understand how the systems work so they can figure out and understand the millions of complexities that might be causing the problem. Link to comment
walksalone Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 so Texas, instead of having kids think, "outside the box", would rather have this business model... Link to comment
zoogs Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Believe it or not, there are disciplines other than science and mathematics. Also, not that there is anything wrong with rote memorization, but if you believe that critical thinking isn't absolutely critical to those fields, you may have missed a thing or two thousand in your science education. Questioning assumptions is at the very foundation of science. So, on this issue the Texas GOP has apparently backtracked and said it was a wrong choice of words, or something along those lines. I haven't read up on it to any degree. Link to comment
Yossarian Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 All I am saying is that with the the U.S. education system has bigger problems than insensitivity and closed-mindedness. Of course, bashing Texans is always great fun, so carry on. Link to comment
bhamHusker Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 You make rote recall sound like a crime of some sort. Next time you see your doctor, ask him about medical school and the method they use. As for "getting" a subject, I "got" calculus by memorizing the rules (as you do in most math courses). There's not a lot of room for self expression. Like my instructor told me, "Taking this course will do nothing except make you a better person." Plus, it filled a math requirement. I'm doing no such thing. I simply pointed out the fact that there is a significant difference between rote memorization and having an actual understanding of a subject. That's not really a debatable point. Rote memorization is an important aspect of learning, but there's more to mastery (the "getting" it part) than just being able to recall facts, methods and formulas. Link to comment
strigori Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Rote memorization is pointless without context. If you have no idea how to apply the facts and data you have memorized, you might as well not have learned anything. Knowing every word's definition from the dictionary would not make you a great speaker or writer, not even a competent one when you get down to it. Link to comment
sd'sker Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 All I am saying is that with the the U.S. education system has bigger problems than insensitivity and closed-mindedness. Of course, bashing Texans is always great fun, so carry on. so, to you, the sole purpose of critical thinking skills is to combat 'insensitivity' and 'closed-mindedness'. and no one is disagreeing that the schools could be better, but just because this is not the biggest problem does not mean that it is not worth discussion. i believe you are demonstrating the 'nirvana fallacy'. Link to comment
walksalone Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Band of Brothers analogy... How Texas wants their kids educated - Lt Sobel If kids in Texas were allowed to think on their own - Lt Winters 2 Link to comment
zoogs Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Bashing Texans is silly, but the Texas GOP or any organization from any state would earn it for the same actions. I'd have to look it up, but it's interesting how much "critical thinking" that the Texas board of education would encourage when it comes to evolution. Link to comment
ZRod Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Band of Brothers analogy... How Texas wants their kids educated - Lt Sobel If kids in Texas were allowed to think on their own - Lt Winters So you're saying we need to adopt Southeastern Pennsylvania's educational philosophies? (Not trying to make a Penn St. joke here, that's central Penn) Link to comment
The Dude Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 All I am saying is that with the the U.S. education system has bigger problems than insensitivity and closed-mindedness. Of course, bashing Texans is always great fun, so carry on. I'm not sure if you quite understand what critical thinking is. 2 Link to comment
Yossarian Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 All I am saying is that with the the U.S. education system has bigger problems than insensitivity and closed-mindedness. Of course, bashing Texans is always great fun, so carry on. I'm not sure if you quite understand what critical thinking is. Making an argument personal is not critical thinking. Link to comment
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