knapplc Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 And that's just scary. You can get some really, really bad presidents by voting "he's not ________ ." Be better than that, JJ. Demand more than that from a candidate. Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I recall wondering when Obama was going to release any specifics about how he was going to fix anything also. That's a particularly strange complaint considering that Obama has repeatedly offered specifics. You can certainly disagree with the effect of those specific plans . . . but it's simply false to say that specifics haven't been offered. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/07/06/comparing-romneys-and-obamas-jobs-plans/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/06/the-massive-policy-gap-between-obama-and-romney/ I can provide direct links to Obama's proposals and Romney's (so called) proposals if you'd prefer. The problem is he has held the job for almost four years and nothing of importance has improved one ioto but rather things have gotten worse. How has it gotten worse and which Obama policies are responsible for the decline? Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Well, to answer both of you, I don't see how it could get any worse than Obama's first term has been and carl, you are only partially correct. Obama may have some specifics now but he did not at the same point in the last election. It was all hope and change and moon gazing speeches. I'm not sure what scares me more about the possibility of a second term; that he'll do the things he is proposing or if he has a whole other agenda. I understand that you guys are in the bag for him. You need to understand that I'm not in the bag for Romney but rather in the bag against Obama. It is what it is. Link to comment
knapplc Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 I'm not "in the bag" for anybody but America. Obama isn't sunshine and daisies. He just happens to be the lesser of two evils right now. Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Well, to answer both of you, I don't see how it could get any worse than Obama's first term has been and carl, you are only partially correct. Obama may have some specifics now but he did not at the same point in the last election. It was all hope and change and moon gazing speeches. I apologize. I misunderstood your statement. I thought you meant that you were still waiting for specifics from Obama. I see now (and should have seen before) that you meant prior to the 2008 election. I think we would have gotten along quite well during the "Hope and Change" tour. I thought that it was stupid then and I think that it's stupid now. Now to tie it back to the present day: do you feel similarly about Romney's lack of concrete proposals? You (like me) seem to have nothing but scorn for the empty rhetoric of a "Hope and Change" type campaign. Do you have the same scorn for Romney? I'm not sure what scares me more about the possibility of a second term; that he'll do the things he is proposing or if he has a whole other agenda. Which proposals scare you? I understand that you guys are in the bag for him. You need to understand that I'm not in the bag for Romney but rather in the bag against Obama. It is what it is. Why would you assume that I'm in the bag for Obama? If you mean that I'm in the bag for Obama in an election with only Romney and Obama as options . . . you're correct. That's certainly not because I think that he is great. What are your biggest complaints about Obama? Obamacare/ACA? If so . . . that vote for Romney is especially strange. Link to comment
JJ Husker Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Sorry knapp, the in the bag comment was probably not the best choice of words. However it would appear that both our minds are already made up about what the better direction for our country would be. We just don't agree. Carl, I have not seen a single specific plan from Romney. You are correct, that is totally unacceptable as it was with Obama 4is years ago. The ACA is not at the top of my list of complaints against Obama. However, the manner in which it was passed is. I actually, in a sick sort of way, admire him for attempting some healthcare reform. My basic problem with Obama derives from his constant and excessive use of class warfare. This country is already too divided. He was supposedly going to be a "uniter" and "healer". He has greatly exacerbated our biggest problem as a country. He has done nothing for our economic outlook and likewise has done nothing for the middle class except obscene amounts of lip service. IMO, he has been the worst president ever, by far, and anyone else would have to be an improvement. I can't detail my feelings any better. Link to comment
carlfense Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 IMO, he has been the worst president ever, by far, and anyone else would have to be an improvement. Whoa. Link to comment
strigori Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I can't honestly believe anyone can feel that Romney will come out of the debates better than he goes in. During the primary debates he had several gaffes ($10,000 bet anyone) Romney is also just not as good a public speaker as Obama, and takes offense whenever anyone challenges what comes out of his mouth (too many years in the echo chamber that is a CEO position) He got through because he was the least crazy of the bunch that had money. Huntsman was the most statesman of them. The favor-ability number needs to scare the crap out of Romney. The guy who is more likeable wins, Bush beat Gore and Kerry, Clinton beat Dole and Bush. W and Clinton were both the candidate that people would have preferred to 'have a beer with' and that sealed it. Likeable = trustable in the minds of many to most people. Link to comment
Comish Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I'm not "in the bag" for anybody but America. Obama isn't sunshine and daisies. He just happens to be the lesser of two evils right now. How can you make that statement when you claim you don't know where Romney stands......? Link to comment
strigori Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Sorry knapp, the in the bag comment was probably not the best choice of words. However it would appear that both our minds are already made up about what the better direction for our country would be. We just don't agree. Carl, I have not seen a single specific plan from Romney. You are correct, that is totally unacceptable as it was with Obama 4is years ago. The ACA is not at the top of my list of complaints against Obama. However, the manner in which it was passed is. I actually, in a sick sort of way, admire him for attempting some healthcare reform. My basic problem with Obama derives from his constant and excessive use of class warfare. This country is already too divided. He was supposedly going to be a "uniter" and "healer". He has greatly exacerbated our biggest problem as a country. He has done nothing for our economic outlook and likewise has done nothing for the middle class except obscene amounts of lip service. IMO, he has been the worst president ever, by far, and anyone else would have to be an improvement. I can't detail my feelings any better. You can't pin the divisiveness of American politics on Obama alone. The Tea Party is far, far more guilty. This Congress is the worst in history, just by looking at the number, or lack there of, of bills they have passed. Everything there is along party lines, there are days where each side would argue over the day of the week if there was not a calender around. The sad fact is that unless 'class warfare' actually gets addressed, one side has already won. It does actually exist, even if some want to believe it does not. Numbers in this case do not lie. Hell, its root causes nearly destroyed the world economy. Link to comment
Comish Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I can't honestly believe anyone can feel that Romney will come out of the debates better than he goes in. During the primary debates he had several gaffes ($10,000 bet anyone) Romney is also just not as good a public speaker as Obama, and takes offense whenever anyone challenges what comes out of his mouth (too many years in the echo chamber that is a CEO position) He got through because he was the least crazy of the bunch that had money. Huntsman was the most statesman of them. The favor-ability number needs to scare the crap out of Romney. The guy who is more likeable wins, Bush beat Gore and Kerry, Clinton beat Dole and Bush. W and Clinton were both the candidate that people would have preferred to 'have a beer with' and that sealed it. Likeable = trustable in the minds of many to most people. Correct on the favorabilities........but the guy who should be scared of that is BO Most of Obama's favorability comes NOT from policy choices but from "likeability" ...........but when this scorched earth campaign begins to eat away at the facade of him being "above it all"...........that advantage is negated and he is left with policy...........then we'll see what the polls indicate Link to comment
strigori Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I can't honestly believe anyone can feel that Romney will come out of the debates better than he goes in. During the primary debates he had several gaffes ($10,000 bet anyone) Romney is also just not as good a public speaker as Obama, and takes offense whenever anyone challenges what comes out of his mouth (too many years in the echo chamber that is a CEO position) He got through because he was the least crazy of the bunch that had money. Huntsman was the most statesman of them. The favor-ability number needs to scare the crap out of Romney. The guy who is more likeable wins, Bush beat Gore and Kerry, Clinton beat Dole and Bush. W and Clinton were both the candidate that people would have preferred to 'have a beer with' and that sealed it. Likeable = trustable in the minds of many to most people. Correct on the favorabilities........but the guy who should be scared of that is BO Most of Obama's favorability comes NOT from policy choices but from "likeability" ...........but when this scorched earth campaign begins to eat away at the facade of him being "above it all"...........that advantage is negated and he is left with policy...........then we'll see what the polls indicate Just check your history books. Likeability trumps policy. Every time. Link to comment
krill Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 IMO, he has been the worst president ever, by far, and anyone else would have to be an improvement. I can't detail my feelings any better. Buchanan, Harding, A. Johnson, Pierce...there's not even a reasonable debate. No post-war President is even in the same league as this group. Link to comment
Comish Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I can't honestly believe anyone can feel that Romney will come out of the debates better than he goes in. During the primary debates he had several gaffes ($10,000 bet anyone) Romney is also just not as good a public speaker as Obama, and takes offense whenever anyone challenges what comes out of his mouth (too many years in the echo chamber that is a CEO position) He got through because he was the least crazy of the bunch that had money. Huntsman was the most statesman of them. The favor-ability number needs to scare the crap out of Romney. The guy who is more likeable wins, Bush beat Gore and Kerry, Clinton beat Dole and Bush. W and Clinton were both the candidate that people would have preferred to 'have a beer with' and that sealed it. Likeable = trustable in the minds of many to most people. Correct on the favorabilities........but the guy who should be scared of that is BO Most of Obama's favorability comes NOT from policy choices but from "likeability" ...........but when this scorched earth campaign begins to eat away at the facade of him being "above it all"...........that advantage is negated and he is left with policy...........then we'll see what the polls indicate Just check your history books. Likeability trumps policy. Every time. I'm agreeing with you. I am saying that BO's lead in likeability will be taking a nose dive in the next 3 months........... Link to comment
Comish Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 IMO, he has been the worst president ever, by far, and anyone else would have to be an improvement. I can't detail my feelings any better. Buchanan, Harding, A. Johnson, Pierce...there's not even a reasonable debate. No post-war President is even in the same league as this group. What an unfair and unwarranted characterization of the understated Warren H. Link to comment
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